Price utah trails

[dpoulsen]

Anybody familiar with the trails at Price, Utah?? We are from Logan and want to come down.

 

[JL Rockies]

I was under the impression that the area was out of the open trails business. I've been wrong before however.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Many of the 'epic' trails were in fact closed with the recent RMP. Hopefully some of our Price locals will chime in with an update.

 

[dpoulsen]

Dang that is not good news. I guess it is St. George then.

 

[anderson750]

The Price trails are "closed" in accordance with the 2008 RMP's. However I use quotations since that RMP is tied up in a lawsuit that was filed by SUWA and the Price F.O has not produced a map and have not done any marking of the trails closed. In fact, the nice laser cut signs that the King Crawlers made and put up at the trail heads are still there.

 

[rockreligious]

The Price trails are "closed" in accordance with the 2008 RMP's. However I use quotations since that RMP is tied up in a lawsuit that was filed by SUWA and the Price F.O has not produced a map and have not done any marking of the trails closed. In fact, the nice laser cut signs that the King Crawlers made and put up at the trail heads are still there.

= hope?

 

[anderson750]

= hope?

Possibly. For the trails to be opened back up, they would have to go through the full NEPA process and that won't happen until something happens with the lawsuit SUWA has filed.

 

[scoutabout]

Suwa's lawsuit against the rmps won't be bringing any trails back. At best, the process will have to be started all over and hopefully there'd be opportunity to get additional routes on the map. Implying that the closures are in limbo and therefore invalid is a questionable suggestion at best.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Suwa's lawsuit against the rmps won't be bringing any trails back. At best, the process will have to be started all over and hopefully there'd be opportunity to get additional routes on the map. Implying that the closures are in limbo and therefore invalid is a questionable suggestion at best.

Not necessarily, until the FO has produces a map available to the public, the closures do not take effect. All of the other RMP's have produced new MVUM, I have not seen one out of the Price office. Am I wrong in this assumption?

 

[jmaxj]

when i was living in price i dealt with the BLM alot for work. i got talking to the director a few times about the price trails and i gained respect for him cause of this phrase he told me. "since we are incompetent and screwed up the trails are technically closed, but not officially so if you want to run them and you are staying on the existing routes there is nothing that we or anyone else can do if you want to run them." and that was a yr ago he told me that.

 

[anderson750]

Suwa's lawsuit against the rmps won't be bringing any trails back. At best, the process will have to be started all over and hopefully there'd be opportunity to get additional routes on the map. Implying that the closures are in limbo and therefore invalid is a questionable suggestion at best.

Sorry I was not perfectly clear in my statement. If the lawsuit is thrown out and the RMP is put into effect with maps and signage on the ground, then the trails would have to go through the NEPA process. If the lawsuit gets the RMP thrown out, then we start the RMP process over and have the opporutunity to submit trail data.

Not necessarily, until the FO has produces a map available to the public, the closures do not take effect. All of the other RMP's have produced new MVUM, I have not seen one out of the Price office. Am I wrong in this assumption?

No map has been produced. They will not spend the time or money to do it until the lawsuit is not hanging over the process.

when i was living in price i dealt with the BLM alot for work. i got talking to the director a few times about the price trails and i gained respect for him cause of this phrase he told me. "since we are incompetent and screwed up the trails are technically closed, but not officially so if you want to run them and you are staying on the existing routes there is nothing that we or anyone else can do if you want to run them." and that was a yr ago he told me that.

We have been told this also.

 

[scoutabout]

Not necessarily, until the FO has produces a map available to the public, the closures do not take effect. All of the other RMP's have produced new MVUM, I have not seen one out of the Price office. Am I wrong in this assumption?

Technically, but it's like a BYU student Vegas wedding. Know what I mean?

They did publish this map (although it's highly unuseable) as part of the RMP ROD

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/media..._rmp/maps.Par.43613.File.dat/Price Map 18.pdf

when i was living in price i dealt with the BLM alot for work. i got talking to the director a few times about the price trails and i gained respect for him cause of this phrase he told me. "since we are incompetent and screwed up the trails are technically closed, but not officially so if you want to run them and you are staying on the existing routes there is nothing that we or anyone else can do if you want to run them." and that was a yr ago he told me that.

Well that's nice. Did you ask him to publish this in the CFR or an official memo?

This is the scam. "It's technically closed, but you can run it" lulls us into relaxation and acceptance. Then one day they decide to enforce the closure and we're screwed. Let's not let the "soft ban" be the end of this situation. If the SUWA lawsuits succeed in invalidating the RMP's, let's do it right this time and stay involved in the process from START to FINISH and ensure that the routes are designated.

 

[scoutabout]

Sorry I was not perfectly clear in my statement. If the lawsuit is thrown out and the RMP is put into effect with maps and signage on the ground, then the trails would have to go through the NEPA process. If the lawsuit gets the RMP thrown out, then we start the RMP process over and have the opporutunity to submit trail data.

Yeah, I knew what you were saying and just added my own superfluous info.

 

[anderson750]

They did publish this map (although it's highly unuseable) as part of the RMP ROD

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/ut/price_fo/Planning/rod_approved_rmp/maps.Par.43613.File.dat/Price%20Map%2018.pdf

The FO knows that map is not useable for the average recreationalist. Their idea of producing a map is like the one we have for the San Rafael and they will not put any time or money into it until the lawsuit is not hanging over it.

Then one day they decide to enforce the closure and we're screwed. Let's not let the "soft ban" be the end of this situation. If the SUWA lawsuits succeed in invalidating the RMP's, let's do it right this time and stay involved in the process from START to FINISH and ensure that the routes are designated.

At this point, there is nothing we can do if they do decide to start to enforce the RMP. In reality, we are probably fortunate they have taken the position they have. And if we get the opportunity to submit data again, there will be 10 fold redundancy in data.

 

[scoutabout]

...the trails are technically closed...

Closed by map or description. Whether a public use map is printed or not.

Since the ROD was published at the end of 2008, I've considered the routes closed. That's me personally. If others want to run the trails and others want to advocate running the trails, I disagree, but that's just my opinion.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...This is the scam. "It's technically closed, but you can run it" lulls us into relaxation and acceptance. Then one day they decide to enforce the closure and we're screwed. Let's not let the "soft ban" be the end of this situation. If the SUWA lawsuits succeed in invalidating the RMP's, let's do it right this time and stay involved in the process from START to FINISH and ensure that the routes are designated.

Agreed, 10+ years later we are now starting to see agencies enforce rule that have been on the books all this time. It didn't pop up on anyone's radar because they were still allowing access. Rincon is a great example, its been 'closed' on paper since the late 70's yet it has never been enforced. In the last 5 years new management started enforcing it yet they can't even describe how or why it was closed, just that it was. Horse Canyon in GSENM is another situation. We are left hoping county RS2477 cases will prevail.

 

[scoutabout]

Rincon is a great example, its been 'closed' on paper since the late 70's yet it has never been enforced. In the last 5 years new management started enforcing it yet they can't even describe how or why it was closed, just that it was. Horse Canyon in GSENM is another situation.

Two excellent examples of where we've been bitten by this in the past.

 

[ricsrx]

Scoutabout I am very clear on your position, ( if we use the trails it removes the urgency to keep trying to open them legally)but what i am unclear on is if we start using the trails again will this create a problem or make it more difficult to get them open legally? or create a legality problem in the process of getting them open.
Rick

 

[1badcj8]

Man its a bummer to read all this. Its happening a bunch these days all over. Sounds like a really fun area...

 

[Gravy]

Definitely a catch 22. If we use them are we irresponsible? If we don't does it demonstrate that we don't want them open anymore?

I know many of the Price locals consider what the BLM area manager has said to be true and continue to run them.