Pulling Tandem? Who does it and what is your opinion.

[Kirk]

I have pulled a jeep behind a 5th wheel 3 different ways: 1. On a 16 ft trailer 2. Flat Towed 3. On a Tow Dolly. I prefer flat towing by far. Drawbacks are wearing out expensive tires, or dealing with changing a set of street tires once you get there, having to remove the driveline, risk of burning up a bearing on the jeep and not know it.... I also wished I had a backup camera to keep an eye on the jeep. I towed the jeep on the trailer 3-4 times. My jeep weights 4,200 lbs and the trailer weighed 2K. 6,200 lbs on the back of the 5th wheel felt like a lot. I beefed up the 5th wheel frame front and back. I noticed the truck bucked a lot more while having the jeep on the second trailer I didn't like the tow dolly because the jeep swayed back and forth (my dad followed me on the freeway and said my jeep was swaying 2-3 feet often). I did have 35" tires with 20lbs air - probably was part of the problem. I couldn't even tell the jeep was there when flat towing.

My neighbor got a ticket for being too long - I think he was 68-70 feet (limit is 65) I think the ticket was about $300. The last time I looked into it, you can get a longer than 65' permit for about $90.00/year. (same as a truck driver) Website - utahmc.com (choose carrier type: RV). The permit seems kinda pricey for 3-4 trips a year.... Not sure if having the permit would keep you from being sued...

I'm not sure about the weight thing. It seems hard for me to believe that you could get sued for exceeding the manufactured suggested weight on a pickup. I see 3/4 ton trucks pulling 3 axle toy haulers all the time - they wiegh 16k-19K. I have been under the impression that as long as private folks stay under 26,000 lbs, they aren't required to get a permit - I may be wrong.

One last thing - if you do try the jeep on a second trailer, I would think about using a second brake controller that only has the panic button wired... (you have to wire it separately) This way your primary brake controller controls all 4 axles normally, but your second brake controllers panic button only activates the brakes on the flatbed trailer. I did this, and liked it because I could slide the botton over if the jeep trailer started to sway a little - just added precaution. Having both trailers start swaying really reinforces how much little control you have if something goes wrong.

 

[LT.]

Another thing it to make sure your brake controller will handle the number of braking axles you have. Some will only handle two axles, both my trailers have two braking axles so I need a controller that will handle 4 axles.

This would be key and I had not even thought about it before. I looked at my previous controller and that was true. Only two axles could be controlled. Also, if your brake controller could handle more axles then would you need a separate the two trailers? I bet both trailers don't have the same braking power.

I have pulled a jeep behind a 5th wheel 3 different ways: 1. On a 16 ft trailer 2. Flat Towed 3. On a Tow Dolly. I prefer flat towing by far. Drawbacks are wearing out expensive tires, or dealing with changing a set of street tires once you get there, having to remove the driveline, risk of burning up a bearing on the jeep and not know it.... I also wished I had a backup camera to keep an eye on the jeep. I towed the jeep on the trailer 3-4 times. My jeep weights 4,200 lbs and the trailer weighed 2K. 6,200 lbs on the back of the 5th wheel felt like a lot. I beefed up the 5th wheel frame front and back. I noticed the truck bucked a lot more while having the jeep on the second trailer I didn't like the tow dolly because the jeep swayed back and forth (my dad followed me on the freeway and said my jeep was swaying 2-3 feet often). I did have 35" tires with 20lbs air - probably was part of the problem. I couldn't even tell the jeep was there when flat towing.

My neighbor got a ticket for being too long - I think he was 68-70 feet (limit is 65) I think the ticket was about $300. The last time I looked into it, you can get a longer than 65' permit for about $90.00/year. (same as a truck driver) Website - utahmc.com (choose carrier type: RV). The permit seems kinda pricey for 3-4 trips a year.... Not sure if having the permit would keep you from being sued...

I'm not sure about the weight thing. It seems hard for me to believe that you could get sued for exceeding the manufactured suggested weight on a pickup. I see 3/4 ton trucks pulling 3 axle toy haulers all the time - they wiegh 16k-19K. I have been under the impression that as long as private folks stay under 26,000 lbs, they aren't required to get a permit - I may be wrong.

One last thing - if you do try the jeep on a second trailer, I would think about using a second brake controller that only has the panic button wired... (you have to wire it separately) This way your primary brake controller controls all 4 axles normally, but your second brake controllers panic button only activates the brakes on the flatbed trailer. I did this, and liked it because I could slide the botton over if the jeep trailer started to sway a little - just added precaution. Having both trailers start swaying really reinforces how much little control you have if something goes wrong.

Just because someone else has towed more weight with their 3/4 ton truck does not make it safe. I am sure we have all done things that were not safe just to get a job done. The reason for the extra weight and why folks may get sued over it is because the truck was never intended for that much weight. If the truck was not built with that kind of weight in mind and the operator was to have an accident I would think the operator would be faulted due to overloading the tow rig. The truck was not built for that, and therefore cannot handle the weight safely. That is the bottom line here is safety. If I was an insurance company and I had this come across my desk I would deny coverage based on the weight and the truck was not built for that and could not do it safely.

I should also add that while I am hauling heavy (over capacity of my truck) I have to get added insurance just to cover it. I have the license and the added insurance to cover it. I am not saying that it still is not the safest way to do things but, at least I am covered for it.

LT.

 

[DaveB]

I would never do this, the last time I saw someone who tried to tandem pull a trailer and off-road rig to Moab they ended up wrecked just before Price. Nice Toyota 4x4 rolled off the trailer, both trailers jack-knifed and messed up. The biggest mess of a tandem rig I saw in Parleys Canyon where a guy had his new Dodge pulling a 5th wheel with his boat behind that. When I saw it the boat was stuck in the back of the 5th wheel, the nose of the 5th wheel was ripped off, and the sides of the truck bed were bent out flat and the truck frame was bent.

 

[StormRider]

Issues to start to consider-
Is your length legal for the State your driving in?
Is it legal to tow tandem in the State your driving in?
Is your total weight under 26k? (CDL is required over that weight)
Are you exceeding the DOT weight limit for your tires?


Just because you can hook it all up doesn't make it sane

 

[anderson750]

^^^^ That is an accident waiting to happen.

 

[minisrus]

The old “65 ft “ rule no longer applies when pulling doubles. The new rule only applies to the total length of the double trailer combination is 61 feet or less….. tow vehichle is not included See here http://www.utahmc.com/trucking_guide/15-legal-size-vehicle-dimensions
Double trailer combinations	61'	Measured from the front of the first trailer to the rear of the second trailer, excluding appurtenances. There is no overall length limitation on a truck tractor and double trailer combination when the trailers coupled together measure 61 feet or less. On secondary routes the maximum number of vehicles in combination may not exceed three.

 

[minisrus]

Issues to start to consider-
Is your length legal for the State your driving in?
Is it legal to tow tandem in the State your driving in?
Is your total weight under 26k? (CDL is required over that weight)
Are you exceeding the DOT weight limit for your tires?
\

Just because you can hook it all up doesn't make it sane
View attachment 70656

CDL stands for commercial drivers license or transporting interstate commerce across state lines for commerce.....

Hence you can operate a vehicle or combination over 26K GCVW if you are not commercial...... Hence how many motor home owners do you know that are required to get a cdl ? a 38 ft Monaco is 30K and rated at 40K combined...

 

[minisrus]

The old “65 ft “ rule no longer applies when pulling doubles. The new rule only applies to the total length of the double trailer combination is 61 feet or less….. tow vehichle is not included See here http://www.utahmc.com/trucking_guide/15-legal-size-vehicle-dimensions
Double trailer combinations	61'	Measured from the front of the first trailer to the rear of the second trailer, excluding appurtenances. There is no overall length limitation on a truck tractor and double trailer combination when the trailers coupled together measure 61 feet or less. On secondary routes the maximum number of vehicles in combination may not exceed three.

Depending on who pulls yo over though and whether the definition of your tow vehicle ... the officer might insist on the old 65 ft rule..... There is an exception "All Other Combinations: All other configurations not defined above are considered to be "other combinations". Maximum legal length for "other combinations" is 65 feet." which generaly is applied to the RV crowd .... unless you are pulling doubles with a "Tractor" .... Just wait until you see my new tow rig!

 

[Kirk]

The section a little further below specifically puts recreation vehicles in the 65' area. Too bad. Good Info though.

All other combinations,	65'	Length limitations do not apply to combinations of vehicles operated at night by a public utility when required for emergency repair of public service facilities or properties, or when operated with an overweight/oversize permit under UCA 72-7-406.
including recreational vehicles	65'	Appurtenances attached to the sides or rear of a recreational vehicle that is not a commercial motor vehicle are excluded for purposes of measuring width and length of the recreational vehicle if the additional width or length of the appurtenances does not exceed 6 inches. UCA 72-7-402(1)(c)

 

[StormRider]

CDL stands for commercial drivers license or transporting interstate commerce across state lines for commerce.....

Hence you can operate a vehicle or combination over 26K GCVW if you are not commercial...... Hence how many motor home owners do you know that are required to get a cdl ? a 38 ft Monaco is 30K and rated at 40K combined...

According to the current Utah drivers license Handbook:
http://publicsafety.utah.gov/dld/documents/Handbook2011withphoto.pdf

Commercial Driver License - a license which allows the holder to operate any vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 lbs. or more, or to transport more than 15 passengers, hazardous materials, doubles/triples, bulk liquids (tankers), or school buses.

The RV's from your example would require a Class B license (over 26,000 lbs. single or comb vehicle)

 

[minisrus]

Go for it!

So when I get my Jeep done I am wanting to pull tandem with my 2005 Dodge Dually and I have a 32' fifth wheel. The way I plan to set it up is to have trailer breaks on the flat bed and as usual the trailer has breaks. Is anyone doing this on here and what kind of luck have they had? View attachment 70607View attachment 70608

Depending on the weight, tongue weight, pin set height and brake controller it can be done safely.

First, let me say my 1998 Dodge is just about to hit 500K miles, I have extensive towing experience from single trailers, to multiple semi rigs.... To simply look at a tandem set up and say it is not safe is misinformed.

That said there is a lot that goes into a safe towing combination. The most dangerous towing combination in my experience is demonstrated by the bumper pull toy haulers. They have a high wind profile susceptible to wind buffeting, and by the design the load rear of the axles changes the tongue weight due to load placement, wind buffeting, lateral g forces etc... Combine this with a short tow vehichle and you are asking for disaster....

Now my experience is going to be a little bit different as I like wheelbase on my tow vehicles and a crew cab long bed is still too short. Generally my overall vehicle length is about 21 feet with a wheelbase of aprox 16 feet.

I used to have a 26 ft fifth wheel travel trailer with long wheel base (About 10K) that I would put a bumper pull 5 Horse trailer behind (About 10K) and go to the Unitas Spirit lake every year (Long steep windy) . My Cousin had a 21 ft bumper pull behind a 1989 Bronco....When we started he had the same belief as the posters above (accident waiting to happen)... But do to my tow rig (Stretched Ford with the Cummins) The set up of the trailers.... I could out pull him and never had any problems with trailer sway including the sisters with a 60 mph side wind.... I can not tell you how many times my heart raced as his trailer swayed from side to side thinking "This is going to be the time he looses it".... It is possible to set up a double configuration that is safe and stable.... far more so than a single bumper pull... But that said it does take some effort and consideration.

#1. No double bumper pulls ! Dangerous at any speed....

#2 Trailer Braking..... very important as the second trailers brakes should engage before the main trailer.... Depending on the weight of the trailer it may be wise to run a second brake controller so you can adjust the second trailers.... That said most trailer brakes are junk...... Make sure all you trailer brakes are working at 100% efficiency (I replace the entire backing plate about every other year" .... Just because they "engage" does not mean they are working properly.

#3 Truck braking ... Just as important..... 1994-2001 Dodge trucks had undersized single piston brakes... that are problematic with small loads.... Is the biggest challenge is not getting the combination moving but stopped..... It never fails some car will come around you and slam on the brakes to get to the "exit"... That being said after being almost killed several times due to brake fade my 1998 Dodge is running 2007 AAM axles and brakes..... 2002 and Newer Dodges , Fords and Chev's all seem to have adequate braking.

#4 Cooling... Mist of the newer trucks are designed to run hot and have a limited amount of cooling.... add in flying several 4x8 sheets of plywood (Fifth Wheel) along with an extra trailer.... can in some instances be too much for your truck to handle.... This has been my limiting factor with pick ups.... I have been able to get rigs with the wheel base, HP, Brakes etc.... But on a warm day on a hard climb... It can make the double experience not too much fun.

That said i have run multiple double trailers behind pickups that have been safer than bumper pull single trailers.... I have even had my wife and children pilot them at times.... They can be safe if done right.... but a bad combination as with any tow set up can be harrowing......

With my old light fifth wheel (8,600 - 10,000) loaded weight I could tow a substantial load behind up to 10K 8.6K+10K = 18,000 lbs towed weight....I found this to be the maximum the Dodges could handle when adding in cooling, brakes etc.... (I had a 2004.5 Ram 3500) .... I now have a well built ... twin air ride 8K axles 32 ft fifth wheel that goes between 14-16k... I also have a built Durrango aprox 6,500 lbs on a 3,000 lbs trailer... so almost another 10K... Total 26K plus the tow rig. It is just too much weight for the brakes and cooling in the pick up realm..... Do not get me wrong I am an old school farmer and if it fits we can haul it....lets just say I have seen the scales just shy of 40K on the scales..... So with my current set up I can take the trailer or the Rango but not both....I could go back to a lighter trailer...but i like my heavy.

I think depending on your trailer weight and build it is possible , but you will have to plan on taking some extra time.

I am building a hybrid..... I have a 2000 Monaco 30 ft diesel pusher chassi.... that I am going to reverse the engine.....that will be behind the cab.... then channel the frame and set on a T-2000 Kenworth cab (It will be a low rider almost on the ground since the motor is behind the cab. It will have air ride front and rear ... low profile 22.5 tires....plenty of braking and cooling.... Engine will be under a 12 ft flatbed... It has the 8.3 cummins, 6 speed Allison MD 3060.

So while I will keep the pick up around .... My pulling double days with them are numbered.

 

[minisrus]

Just so I can get "Flamed"

Here is a pic of one of my old tow rigs.... bringing in the donor for the new toter..... Truck is 21' Long 16 ' wheel base.... rear axle weight is right at 6,500lbs.... Trailer is 49' over all 40' deck .... 24K tandems set way back.

Flame away!

 

[minisrus]

The section a little further below specifically puts recreation vehicles in the 65' area. Too bad. Good Info though.

All other combinations,	65'	Length limitations do not apply to combinations of vehicles operated at night by a public utility when required for emergency repair of public service facilities or properties, or when operated with an overweight/oversize permit under UCA 72-7-406.
including recreational vehicles	65'	Appurtenances attached to the sides or rear of a recreational vehicle that is not a commercial motor vehicle are excluded for purposes of measuring width and length of the recreational vehicle if the additional width or length of the appurtenances does not exceed 6 inches. UCA 72-7-402(1)(c)

Unless the UHP determines your tow rig qualifies as a "tractor" ... which several of mine do.... but agreed can be problamatic

 

[webyepn]

Wow you guys!! Thank you for all of the good information. I will take all of this into consideration when I look at pulling double.

 

[NYCEGUY01]

This pic sucks as its off my phone.
Its from last easter. It was raining pretty good when I was pulled off the freeway waiting for the rest of my group.

33' 5th wheel. 16' enclosed loaded with 1 quad, my RZR, and a ton of tools/fuel/compressor/generator etc.....

Its heavy but pulls and handles just fine... I pull this setup 10-12 times a year. Usually headed to either Little Sahara or St. Anthonys.....

96 Chevy Farmtruck...lol

As far as the law Ive been pulled over for other reasons. All UHP Ive talked to seem to think the 61' is the rule here... This includes the guys at the Farmington UHP station where I towed it to get an explanation. A Sergant wrote 61' total trailer length on the back of his card for me. I keep it in the truck just in case...

Although I think Im over Ive never been actually measured for a ticke...
Last year 2 of my friends were ticketed though..
1 for bieng over 65' with 2 bumper pull trailers.
The other guy was noticeably over. 40' 5th wheel and a 22-24' enclosed... I dont remember the measurement but he looks illegal.
When you hit Tooele for fuel and youre a good amount longer than the UPS semi at the next pump theres gonna be questions.....lol

 

[Shawn]

I have debated whether to post here or not because I'm not interested in getting bashed on. I drive a 2005 Dodge 3500 dually. This truck has one purpose in my fleet and that is to pull my toys. I pull my 28 foot wildcat which is really 30', then depending on when I'm going I tandem my 21' snowmobile trailer that holds the RZR and 3-4 quads OR I pull my 22 foot boat that is really about 25' with the trailer and swim deck. Both of these weigh in at about 4500-5000 lbs. Because of the design on both trailers the boat pulls much better, the axles are further back. With the snowmobile trailer I can get some dog tail action. This is helped out by using a traction control devise. I have also pulled tandem with the crawler to Moab. I rarely have any problems pulling my loads. My truck is great and I would never think of getting a different one, to me, the tow rig make a huge difference.

 

[ricsrx]

to me, the tow rig make a huge difference.

is the dually rated for a higher total weight towing capacity or just tongue weight?

 

[Shawn]

Sorry, my post was quick as I was running out the door. The dually offers more stability, I have been in some serious wind heading to Flaming George and drove with one hand on the wheel.

Things I have added to the truck that have helped me, not many at that. Pac brake and a Edge chip is all. Running a good set of tires is a must. The truck has michelin tires and the fith wheel have michelin RIBs.

When pulling the snowmobile trailer this anti sway bar helped big time! http://www.reese-hitches.com/products/Standard_Friction_Sway_Control,26660

Another item not to over look is the fithwheel hitch, don't short cut this. Buy big.

Later,

 

[Ima9er]

This pic sucks as its off my phone.
Its from last easter. It was raining pretty good when I was pulled off the freeway waiting for the rest of my group.

33' 5th wheel. 16' enclosed loaded with 1 quad, my RZR, and a ton of tools/fuel/compressor/generator etc.....

Its heavy but pulls and handles just fine... I pull this setup 10-12 times a year. Usually headed to either Little Sahara or St. Anthonys.....

96 Chevy Farmtruck...lol

As far as the law Ive been pulled over for other reasons. All UHP Ive talked to seem to think the 61' is the rule here... This includes the guys at the Farmington UHP station where I towed it to get an explanation. A Sergant wrote 61' total trailer length on the back of his card for me. I keep it in the truck just in case...

Although I think Im over Ive never been actually measured for a ticke...
Last year 2 of my friends were ticketed though..
1 for bieng over 65' with 2 bumper pull trailers.
The other guy was noticeably over. 40' 5th wheel and a 22-24' enclosed... I dont remember the measurement but he looks illegal.
When you hit Tooele for fuel and youre a good amount longer than the UPS semi at the next pump theres gonna be questions.....lol

you said that your truck is a 96 farm truck! is it diesel or gas? and 3500 or 2500? and last 2wd or 4wd?
i'm asking cause i have a diesel gmc 2500 2wd, and towing just my rig to moab i was able to get good speed and good mpg's, now if i add a older light fifth wheel i would definetly be under the 26k rule and shorter than the 61 ft rule.

 

[NYCEGUY01]

96 Chevy 1 ton Dually.
Cummins 12 valve. Big injectors, twin turbos, and a bunch of other crap done to it.......
4 wheel drive.
Currently in need of the 5th gear fix and also currently for sale in the classifieds here on RME....

I wouldnt tow heavy ( 1 or 2 trailers ) without a dually. The single wheel trucks can most likely handle the weight that 99% of the people tow.
The Duallys are just so much more stable when doing it. At least for me it just feels alot safer....