Quick 4th Grade Math Help!!!!!

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
Screenshot_2015-05-05-21-43-52_zpszf9xpphe.png

That explains it. You keep going back to the left until you find the next problem in the hierarchy. So you could x or / first, just depending on which one comes first. Same with + or -.

I thought it had to go x then / then + and end with -.

I guess we are all dumber than a 4th grade teacher.
 

BlueWolfFab

Running Behind
Location
Eagle Mountain
huh? Now I'm confused ha. I was agreeing originally with this new screenshot, that multiply or divide have no reason to get switched, but it is done from left to right. Same with +,-.....

How did the teacher become right again? Lol.
 

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
Mr Heath, you say? I'll make sure my boy gets the OTHER 4th grade teacher next year. :D

The real problem with the class is that's it's a 4-5 split and she told me this is what the 5th graders are doing. I have no clue what grade my daughter is in, and worse, if she goes into this "gifted" program, what grades equivalent will she be learning then?
 

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
So according to the screen shot that Bluewolf posted, here is what it says to do:

30 - 32 / (6-2) x 3 + 12 = do the parenthesis first

30 - (32 / 4) x 3 + 12 = next from left to right is division as it comes first in the problem and is equal with multiplication. Parenthesis added from here on out to show the next step.

30 - (8 x 3) + 12 = next is multiplication as it is next in the hierarchy.

(30 - 24) + 12 = adding and subtraction are equal so you do the subtraction first because it comes first in the problem, from left to right.

6 + 12 = 18.

18 is one of the answers in the answer column.

The only reason my daughter got the first 5 right are because they are laid out so the hierarchy flows in the order that she was taught/understood. It makes all the difference to know that you can multiply or divide first and not just multiply. Same with adding and subtracting. You will not always add before you subtract.
 

Kevin B.

Not often wrong. Never quite right.
Moderator
Location
Stinkwater
So according to the screen shot that Bluewolf posted, here is what it says to do:

30 - 32 / (6-2) x 3 + 12 = do the parenthesis first

30 - (32 / 4) x 3 + 12 = next from left to right is division as it comes first in the problem and is equal with multiplication. Parenthesis added from here on out to show the next step.

30 - (8 x 3) + 12 = next is multiplication as it is next in the hierarchy.

(30 - 24) + 12 = adding and subtraction are equal so you do the subtraction first because it comes first in the problem, from left to right.

6 + 12 = 18.

18 is one of the answers in the answer column.

The only reason my daughter got the first 5 right are because they are laid out so the hierarchy flows in the order that she was taught/understood. It makes all the difference to know that you can multiply or divide first and not just multiply. Same with adding and subtracting. You will not always add before you subtract.

I was too big a slacker to get past basic algebra and that was twenty years ago, but I think what you're posting here agrees with how I think I was taught? Or am I missing something?
 

I Lean

Mbryson's hairdresser
Vendor
Location
Utah
So according to the screen shot that Bluewolf posted, here is what it says to do:

30 - 32 / (6-2) x 3 + 12 = do the parenthesis first

30 - (32 / 4) x 3 + 12 = next from left to right is division as it comes first in the problem and is equal with multiplication. Parenthesis added from here on out to show the next step.

30 - (8 x 3) + 12 = next is multiplication as it is next in the hierarchy.

(30 - 24) + 12 = adding and subtraction are equal so you do the subtraction first because it comes first in the problem, from left to right.

6 + 12 = 18.

18 is one of the answers in the answer column.

The only reason my daughter got the first 5 right are because they are laid out so the hierarchy flows in the order that she was taught/understood. It makes all the difference to know that you can multiply or divide first and not just multiply. Same with adding and subtracting. You will not always add before you subtract.

Wait wait....in the first post, you had in the parenthesis (6-4). In this one you say (6-2) That changes things a LOT. I now get 18.
 

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
Dang! I sure did. I bet that messed everyone up. I inserted the answer, a 4 instead of the 2. Sorry.
 

Kevin B.

Not often wrong. Never quite right.
Moderator
Location
Stinkwater
Ok, looking at number 10.

85-20/(30-20)x8+15
parentheses first
85-20/10x8+15
multiplication and division left to right
85-2x8+15
85-16+15
=84
 

blznnp

Well-Known Member
Location
Herriman
I got -6 as well and like carl stated, you posted WRONG, come on man. going through it again I get 18. this is one thing I am not looking forward to when my kids are getting higher in math. My dad was the same way, if he got it wrong, he was not happy (he was a engineer and then did remodeling so always dealing with numbers)
 
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blznnp

Well-Known Member
Location
Herriman
The other thing to look at (sorry if it has been mentioned) but when there is a division....5/4 (division sign instead of "/"), thats a fraction. so like the above thing explaining 15/3x4, you have to put that 15/3 as a fraction, so really it would be (15x4)/3
 

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
I know, I know, bring on the flames!!! So all of you that originally got -6 can pat your selves (or calculators) on the back. :D

It's not so much with me not remembering how to do the problems (as it was in this case) but I have no idea most of the time how to help her do it the new way. I can get the answer most of the time, but if I show my work the way I was taught, and she does it that way, she will get the problem wrong because she figured it out "wrong".
 

mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
Parent, "teacher you are an idiot the answer is -6"

Teacher, "nope, you put a 4 instead of 2"

Parent, "Why are you teaching my kids differently than I learned"

Teacher, "the worksheets are free and I am a teacher so I can change the order of PEMDAS if I want to."

Parent, "PEMDAS isn't really something you can change. Gifted is 70%? These days kids must be dumb"

Teacher, "The kids whose homework you can't do?"

Parent, "uhmmm, I mean you are stupid"

Teacher, "Many test these days are adaptive. Designed for students to get harder questions until they get them wrong. 70% is good, 90% is really good, gifted in fact"

Parent, "You know what is wrong, your face. Was this test adaptive? "

Teacher, "but the worksheets are free. To be honest I don't know how to do this math either. I am making it up as I go"

Parent, "well, that is good I guess. If this test was or wasn't adaptive why is my daughter gifted?"

Teacher, "You live in Magna"


Mostly just joking around because I see what you are saying. I have a tough time helping my third grader with his math sometimes. The idea is to teach the kids to problem solve. Math might not be the best way to do that, but….

I have a friend that works for Adobe as a math nerd. His job is to deal with algorithms. He said they are having a really hard time finding good people to work in that department because many internet based algorithms are sort of self evolving. The old school way of math doesn't keep up. The world is changing. Some companies even purposely look for successful students with dyslexia because they can solve the problem using their own set of rules.

Maybe they should teach them the old way of math and then have a 1/2 hour of creative problem solving or something. Teachers teach what they are required to teach by law. Laws made by legislators that have never been in the classroom.

Not every teacher is amazing, but not all of them are idiots. Mr. Hamburger or whatever his name is might be an idiot I don't know. He might be trying to teach a style of math he himself doesn't understand. He learned the way we did, and like us he is having a hard time. That would definitely cause problems.

We might find out in a couple years that this type of math is the worst and that all kids that went through it can't survive in the work place. We might find that it is the best and that it is a good thing we did it. We might find that people are smart and will adapt anyway so it doesn't matter. Preparing kids for the future as parents and teachers is a tough assignment because we don't know exactly what that looks like. My dad thought it was crazy that I took a computer class. In fact, in high school I had an english teacher tell me the internet was a fad:eek:. I guess she had never been on RME.
 
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UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
I'm hoping the students got the rules/order of operations to take home or there's going to be a ton of frustrated parents AND all their buddies on whatever forums or Facebook.:D

One absolutely positive thing has come from this, UNSTUCK, your kid seeing you have trouble with this and continuing to provide effort is far worth more than the actual mathematical answer.

If she brought anything we home we haven't seen it. I appreciate the kind words. Very little matters more to me than my kids education, to a fault almost. There may be a little pride involved as well. I didn't know the answer and I wasn't about to quite until I did. The real sad part though is that now I'm not sure I have anything to yell at the teacher about. :D I need to talk to my daughter more about it tonight.
 
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