Record Snow pack, floods next?

[Houndoc]

Dad still farms alfalfa, seems like when the farmers stop in his area it turns into houses that use 10x the water his alfalfa did...

Alfalfa does use far more water than do subdivisions. As some one how needs to buy hay and doesn't like subdivisions that is hard to admit, but truth is what it is.

 

[Jesser04]

Here is Ben lomond same time frame 1983. I’m not the smartest guy and I know that but am I reading this correctly that there is an additional 2’ of water at the site than there was in 1983?

 

[Houndoc]

My BIL built a home close to utah lake about 15 years ago. One weirdo on his street built his house up super high with all these steps up to the front door, and was the butt of some jokes in the hood. Until the big winter of 2011 brought the groundwater up and every basement in the neighborhood flooded -except one. Turns out he was the only one to consult the old farmers in the area who remembered high water years. Every basement in the whole development had to install sump pumps. That’s a guaranteed scenario for so many new developments that have gone in during the last few dry years.

We had two building bid on our house- both Grantsville raised and one who lived just up the street. Both told us in no uncertain terms not to put in a basement.
Talked to another friend this weekend who also grew up in town and is in the construction business. He is very concerned with all the subdivisions on the west side of Grantsville that filled in washes and ravines. The water uphill has to go somewhere and those natural water ways as still there until you hit the property lines.
There is value in local knowledge!

 

[Hickey]

We had two building bid on our house- both Grantsville raised and one who lived just up the street. Both told us in no uncertain terms not to put in a basement.
Talked to another friend this weekend who also grew up in town and is in the construction business. He is very concerned with all the subdivisions on the west side of Grantsville that filled in washes and ravines. The water uphill has to go somewhere and those natural water ways as still there until you hit the property lines.
There is value in local knowledge!

Those new subdivisions west of me are my sand bags. 😃

 

[glockman]

April '83 was when the Thistle land slide occurred... I know guys that worked the RR tracks trying to repair the damage.

Thistle, Utah - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

My Grandfather worked as a Surveyor for UDOT when the Thistle slide happened. I can remember going up on the moving slide with my dad to see the carnage and talk to my Grandfather who was measuring the movement. We drove right out onto the slide. It was pretty wild.

 

[Spork]

Alfalfa does use far more water than do subdivisions. As some one how needs to buy hay and doesn't like subdivisions that is hard to admit, but truth is what it is.

I sure hope those houses aren't using the same quality of water that the alfalfa is using. All water is not the same, I used to have a friend that called it pasteurized water. It flowed through several pastures before it got there...

 

[Cody]

I sure hope those houses aren't using the same quality of water that the alfalfa is using. All water is not the same, I used to have a friend that called it pasteurized water. It flowed through several pastures before it got there...

Wouldn't that be "pasturized" water ha ha.

I had someone trying to tell me about the agronomics of alfalfa farming and how it used like 90% of all of Utah's water and all of it was being exported to China or India or something. She's also generally an idiot, generally believes everything she reads, and was drunk.

 

[Houndoc]

Wouldn't that be "pasturized" water ha ha.

I had someone trying to tell me about the agronomics of alfalfa farming and how it used like 90% of all of Utah's water and all of it was being exported to China or India or something. She's also generally an idiot, generally believes everything she reads, and was drunk.

Numbers may not be exact, but I have heard recent news reports that farming in general uses over 60% of water in the state. And yes, alfalfa is exported.
Lower Colorado River use is mostly for agriculture in California.
Obviously we need food so isn't a bad use of water but reducing waste and better crop selection is wise (such as stopping growing cotton in Arizona. )

 

[Kevin B.]

Numbers may not be exact, but I have heard recent news reports that farming in general uses over 60% of water in the state. And yes, alfalfa is exported.
Lower Colorado River use is mostly for agriculture in California.
Obviously we need food so isn't a bad use of water but reducing waste and better crop selection is wise (such as stopping growing cotton in Arizona. )

I'm no expert, but I feel intuitively that growing any sort of water intensive crop in a place where water is not abundant isn't wise. And raising livestock that need a crop that needs a lot of water maybe isn't a great call either.

Obviously you balance that with the cost of bringing those crops and livestock products in from elsewhere. But we're clearly using way more water than we have, and lots of things have to change, and farming/ranching practices probably ought to be one of those things.

 

[Houndoc]

I'm no expert, but I feel intuitively that growing any sort of water intensive crop in a place where water is not abundant isn't wise. And raising livestock that need a crop that needs a lot of water maybe isn't a great call either.

Obviously you balance that with the cost of bringing those crops and livestock products in from elsewhere. But we're clearly using way more water than we have, and lots of things have to change, and farming/ranching practices probably ought to be one of those things.

Agreed.
We need to find less water intensive feed for livestock and landscaping for homes.

Personally I am redoing my yard (zero watering of the lawn last year) and have been researching lower water options for lawn and will likely replant with Buffalo grass.

I also seeded my pasture with a drought tolerant seed mix, but the last couple summers were too dry for it to get established. May have to replant this fall.

 

[Spork]

My issue is if you aren't growing crops what are you doing? I question the water usage also, doesn't matter if it's wheat/barley/alfalfa they all get watered about the same amount. I don't hear anyone complaining about how much water barley uses...
People like to complain about how much water cows use but I see a lot of cows out roaming around the mountains eating stuff that you and I couldn't survive on, living in places you couldn't build, and thriving in areas that are hard to survive in.

 

[TRD270]

I'm no expert, but I feel intuitively that growing any sort of water intensive crop in a place where water is not abundant isn't wise. And raising livestock that need a crop that needs a lot of water maybe isn't a great call either.

Obviously you balance that with the cost of bringing those crops and livestock products in from elsewhere. But we're clearly using way more water than we have, and lots of things have to change, and farming/ranching practices probably ought to be one of those things.

Here was my thought on this. Farmers need to make a living as well. They have been given water rights many years ago when it wasn't an issue. I figure the government buys back those water rights calculated on the earning potential for said crop over X amount of generations. Money is no longer an issue for the farm for a gen or three. Gives the family time to transition to some other form of income or even a product that doesn't require as much water. They don't lose their land, and its a win for drinking water. ( also maybe a you can't sell this land for development for x amount of years clause because that would defeat the purpose )

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I like twice as many crops as I do Newtahns.

Slow the flow... of more Newtahns

 

[N-Smooth]

I like twice as many crops as I do Newtahns.

Slow the flow... of more Newtahns

I was today years old when I heard that phrase for the first time and I love it 🤣

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I was today years old when I heard that phrase for the first time and I love it 🤣

I lay claim to it.

They generally say things like "we love Utah, this neighborhood would be a great HOA" or "I moved to Utah because of how open everything is, I bought a bunch of land and am developing it into 300 sq-ft townhomes".

I've been working on a test for Newtahns to graduate to Utahns. It's both time (30 years sounds appropriate) but also knowledge based, in fact the flood of 83 is an important milestone a Utahn should be familiar with. Hogup Pumps, Shasta the Liger, the difference between a Steak House and a Stake House, etc.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

All levity aside, the growth in our population and it's relation to water does seem to evade the typical 'Slow the Flow' discussion. I absolutely get that farming/ranching interests take great deals of water. I'd however love to see where they are using that water from. Water from the Deep Creeks doesn't exactly serve the SL Valley where it is stressed more than most. Furthermore, I don't have any data to support but farming interests absolutely have to be down over the past few decades. Is it a forgone conclusion that all farm land be turned into homes, homes that need more water, lead to more traffic. Do we need to develop every square inch? I get it, if I owned property worth developing... I'd want to maximize my value too. Instead, I specialize in buying rural land with zero development potential

 

[Cody]

For one, big barley is more powerful than big alfalfa I don't know the numbers, but I do think a lot of barley/wheat crops in Utah and Idaho are dry farmed. The yield sucks, but it's cheaper for obvious reasons.

Also, we seem to be the only culture actively trying to make it uncool to grow more fruits and vegetables with less. Give me the most GMO ****ing orange you can. I want the orange the size of a canteloup. I want my lime the size of an orange. Not this shitty organic lime that is hard as a rock and looks like it has a diaper rash.

Also, GMO cows. We need bigger, steakier, more drought tolerant cows. Like a bovine matrix is what I'm picturing here.

I've seen a bunch of articles about those grass grow-houses (not that kind of grass you hippies) that are able to produce a ton of feed for livestock, year round, from a really small foot print with only a fraction of the water. This has to be the future...maybe the government should subsidize that technology and those builds instead of just paying farmers to fallow their crops?

 

[Herzog]

Ah the church of science and the gmo cows. That’s a Faustian situation waiting to happen.

 

[Cody]

Ah the church of science and the gmo cows. That’s a Faustian situation waiting to happen.

You can pray on it and I'll put A1 on it.

Not really though... A1 sucks ha ha.

 

[Hickey]

I lay claim to it.

They generally say things like "we love Utah, this neighborhood would be a great HOA" or "I moved to Utah because of how open everything is, I bought a bunch of land and am developing it into 300 sq-ft townhomes".

I've been working on a test for Newtahns to graduate to Utahns. It's both time (30 years sounds appropriate) but also knowledge based, in fact the flood of 83 is an important milestone a Utahn should be familiar with. Hogup Pumps, Shasta the Liger, the difference between a Steak House and a Stake House, etc.

Consuming a gallon of green jello should be a part of that exam.