Response to "Sponsor Not Paying"

[Kevin B.]

It's taboo for companies to bicker online. This was a contractual argument that should have been handled through legal channels. IMHO.

(snip)

It's a business venture for him, thus it is a brand.

I don't think Olaf makes any money off BFE. I think what he does is more akin to community service than a business venture and thus his public appeal for help more valid, although if BFE is a for-profit enterprise your point is better made for sure.

And a lawyer sometimes isn't a financial option - if collection is going to cost more than the amount collected, and there's not much hope of collecting anything even with a judgement, there's not much point in bringing a suit.

I dunno though, I'm no expert either, just some random guy flinging his opinion around.

 

[Unimog]

Is it suddenly taboo to talk on the internet...

I guess you can say whatever you want on the internet as long as you don't pretend there are no consequences for saying something. If you are a organization trying to get a donor to pay money, you may want to think twice before using this as a method to get the donor to continue paying.

 

[SAMI]

It's not fair to the current sponsors of AreaBFE to have someone pretending to sponsor and get free ads/association with BFE.

FWIW, I don't see anything wrong with Olaf trying to raise awareness through the interwebs if other means aren't producing results due to the lack of communication from the other side; but I think it comes with risks that might not favor AreaBFE.

It sounds like good-faith payments were encouraged by Olaf, yet nothing came from fukyastixx. I'd pull their ads off of ABFE'S site and just go separate ways. It's going to take far too much effort to continue the online bashin and it's only going to fester, possibly damaging even ABFE'S rep to some degree.

 

[Stephen]

I don't think Olaf makes any money off BFE. I think what he does is more akin to community service than a business venture and thus his public appeal for help more valid, although if BFE is a for-profit enterprise your point is better made for sure.

I haven't heard of BFE being a 503(c) entity, so I must assume that it is a business. Perhaps this can be cleared up as I have never been there. Not really my cup of tea (yes I'm drinking tea right now, Tacoma. Earl Grey, hot... ).

And a lawyer sometimes isn't a financial option - if collection is going to cost more than the amount collected, and there's not much hope of collecting anything even with a judgement, there's not much point in bringing a suit.

Risk that has to be taken. If this was never an option, then BFE should have vetted their sponsors better, perhaps required the full payment up front. Something like that.

I dunno though, I'm no expert either, just some random guy flinging his opinion around.

Ain't the internet grand!

I guess you can say whatever you want on the internet as long as you don't pretend there are no consequences for saying something. If you are a organization trying to get a donor to pay money, you may want to think twice before using this as a method to get the donor to continue paying.

Was Rukkastixx a donor or a sponsor? A donor not pay a pledged amount is completely different than a sponsor not paying. If this is an issue of Rukkastixx donating money to BFE and not following through on a pledge, then I'm much more willing to say drag them over the coals publicly than if they were indeed a sponsor.

It's not fair to the current sponsors of AreaBFE to have someone pretending to sponsor and get free ads/association with BFE.

BFE should have pulled anything with Rukkastixx name on it as soon as the first payment was missed. This is Marketing 1010. If BFE kept giving them essentially free advertising thats their mistake.

FWIW, I don't see anything wrong with Olaf trying to raise awareness through the interwebs if other means aren't producing results due to the lack of communication from the other side; but I think it comes with risks that might not favor AreaBFE.

See my prior post, but yes, he took a risk. I don't think BFE will really be harmed by this, Rukkastixx is going to get the raw end of this one way or another (does anyone drink energy drinks anymore anyway? I thought that was sooo 2000's?). This was just improper decorum on the part of BFE. If I were a business looking to work with BFE in the future, I would be wary about how they handle their affairs in all regards after reading this. But thats just me.

It sounds like good-faith payments were encouraged by Olaf, yet nothing came from fukyastixx. I'd pull their ads off of ABFE'S site and just go separate ways. It's going to take far too much effort to continue the online bashin and it's only going to fester, possibly damaging even ABFE'S rep to some degree.

Agreed.

 

[gorillaxj]

Was Rukkastixx a donor or a sponsor? A donor not pay a pledged amount is completely different than a sponsor not paying. If this is an issue of Rukkastixx donating money to BFE and not following through on a pledge, then I'm much more willing to say drag them over the coals publicly than if they were indeed a sponsor.

looks like they where an official sponsor.. or so there own site says so... http://rukkastixx.com/rukkastixx-energy-shots-signs-as-official-sponsor-of-areabfe-off-road-park/

I would agree with most of what has been said, no expert by any streatch but interesting to read

 

[Unimog]

Fair enough. If Rukkastixx was really a sponsor, that puts even a higher burden of behavior on BFE as a business partner. This is really too bad for both parties.

 

[SAMI]

Yup, RUKKASTIXX failed by overcommiting and ABFE failed by not pulling the advertisment plug when zero monies hit their mailbox.

 

[zukijames]

olaf is amazing and i dont think anyone on here should be saying anything negative . AREA BFE rocks moab wouldn't be the same with out it

 

[bamacpl]

I'm with Cheston.....I had some of the RUKKASTICK samples they were giving out at EJS & it was like swallowing a 4.0 treble hook!!!! Ppppllllllbbbbbbbfffffff.......

 

[Tacoma]

Whether you like the product or not is irrelevant, start an "I hate the taste of Rukkastix" if you feel that way.

My personal take: A contract is a contract. On the other hand, things happen. IF Olaf was unable to come to a resolution w/Jeremy behind closed doors, then it's his prerogative to start a public thread about it. As for damaging the brands, a lot of people don't know Olaf or Jeremy personally, so it's a battle of brands for sure. IF it's true that threats to ruin people online were made, and so far I haven't seen that evidence other than what's been said, that's just bad form.

Clearly some kind of resolution needs to happen, let's hope threads like these will facilitate that.

 

[TJDukit]

I just really hope that both parties can come out of this on top. I don't feel it is necessary to air my opinion about who is wrong and who is right. As of right now I don't see anything that would destroy anybody. Sure there is some negative publicity but there is still plenty of room for a good resolution.

 

[Olaf]

I wanted to address a few questions that I've seen on this thread....

AreaBFE is not a profitable endeavor. We have put money out of our pockets to cover the annual expenses every year since the property was purchased. We do it because we're enthusiasts and so that all of us will have a place to wheel as trails continue to get closed. One of my buddies says that BFE seems to stand for, "Bought For Everyone." Additionally, this would've been the first year that we broke even and didn't have to put money out of our pockets to cover expenses.

We are not registered as a non-profit, and we pay tax on all of the money received.

I realize that going public would agitate Rukkastixx, and that it might hinder us getting paid on the balance. I went public so that at the minimum, this would be a public service announcement.

There is a contract, we have honored our part and Rukkastixx has not. We did not stop honoring the contract as soon as the first or even second installment were missed because we would have been in breach of contract. I also didn't stop because I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt and working with them. However, once the quiet/private method didn't work then we had to change course.

We have a long and strong list of sponsors. Our list has grown each year, most of them have become supporters year over year, and our relationships with them are strong! This wouldn't be the case if AreaBFE didn't have value, and if I didn't honor my agreements with these companies! This is the first time we've had a sponsor not pay.

Let me address those who feel that this should not be public. The beauty of the internet is that it creates transparency and that's why sites like Yelp, Pinterest, TravelAdvisor, and others are some of the biggest sites on the internet. The interesting thing is that all three of those are social rating sites that I'm sure many of you use. I don't believe that any of you have a problem when you rate or review a service poorly so that the whole world can see. In fact, you probably welcome reviews because they might help drive you to use a service or help you avoid a negative situation. This is why I don't see the problem in posting a review of our experience with Rukkastixx.

For those who are wondering if there has been any resolution, the last communication I had was from Rukkastixx/Jeremey's attorney last Friday evening stating, "he doesn't want to put anything in writing" and "he decided to do something better with the money".

 

[Tacoma]

That certainly puts things a little differently than "We had problems come up with our financing.".

I have a feeling that overall, something good for BFE is going to come out of this. Like a trail day benefit ride.

 

[jeeper]

This is the first time we've had a sponsor not pay.

As one who frequently is owed money form others for services/work/contracts I can tell you this wont be the last time you are owed money either. You will learn to be smarter about it each time. There is a learning curve to collections.

 

[Herzog]

As one who frequently is owed money form others for services/work/contracts I can tell you this wont be the last time you are owed money either. You will learn to be smarter about it each time. There is a learning curve to collections.

I don't think that he's inexperienced in the matter at all. I think his point was that most of the sponsors are reputable and honest enough to honor their obligations and that we should support them for doing so.

I think people would be impressed with how much money these guys have pulled out of pocket to keep a place open for everybody to enjoy. Speaking from experience, some of the most enjoyable ventures don't always make a profit. AreaBFE wasn't purchased by an amoral entity to scrape in truckloads of cash, it was purchased to save a single world-class hardcore trail to combat against the fact that we lost the lower half of it to a moderately wealthy wanna-be hippie. It has now turned into several awesome trails and is openly freely to the public in the hopes that people will drop a donation on their way in or out.

I do hope that Olaf and crew eventually do turn an honest profit at AreaBFE, they truly deserve it. I can't speak for their future actions, but what if they made enough money to expand or create a new area? Who knows... maybe it might even motivate another group to follow suit and purchase a chunk of SILTA land that may come up for auction that contain more of our great trails. It's all up in the air. These are several reasons I donate as much time as I can to help them with their website and other small things. If they succeed, we all succeed.

 

[cjncustoms]

^^^^LIKE^^^^ well said Shane!

 

[bamacpl]

Whether you like the product or not is irrelevant, start an "I hate the taste of Rukkastix" if you want to

It's my opinion.... Why don't start a " I am a poop house lawyer" thread

 

[Olaf]

Update on Rukkastixx....

No communication, no payment arrangement, no money received.

 

[jason1]

Too bad. Next year we won't have a contest for who could drink 2 puke sticks without rukkaing.

 

[RogueJeepr]

I think both sides need to delete thier threads starting with rukkasticks.
In the future I dont see any new upcoming energy-drink companies sticking around with all the bad publicity they've had and mabey new sponserships should be picked with how long they have been in buisiness and manage thier money. .
My 2 cents thats all.