Retirement? 401, ira, roth Blah Blah Blah

Toad

Well-Known Member
Location
Millville(logan)
I really don't have any body in my circle to talk to about this. I need to start planning for my future. I dont want to be broke when I am a old man. I want to play. I am 35 years old, I have no debt outside of my home. I work for a small business so I don't have a employer match 401 program going. Today I was into a Mountain America and they had a screen with some percents for earnings. 5000 grand into a account and it paid .03 percent. So in a year I can 150 bucks!!! So what is the difference between all of these accounts? How do you set them up?
 

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
A lot of people will scoff that this, but anyone wanting to get their feet wet with money know how should attend a Financial peace university series. I learned enough about retirement to really help me out. You should look into it.
 

rustyoljeep

Soon to be Flinstoning it
Location
Murray, UT
It depends on how involved you want to be and how much money you want to invest right now. If you have the time and the skills to monitor and invest in stocks on your own, I'd recommend that. It can be a full time job, but it can pay like one too. I personally have had retirement accounts since I was 21(23 now) and I have two set up, one with my employer, and one with my banking establishment, Wells Fargo. The reason I have one with Wells Fargo is so I have somewhere to rollover to whenever I part ways with a company. My first 401k I asked my uncle who is a financial adviser, where to put the money however since I'm younger, the spread would be a lot different. I'd start with your bank, if you trust them, because it's a little easier to keep all your eggs in one basket when you don't want to put in too much effort.
 

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
(cut-n-paste of an old HTML FAQ on the subject)

Retirement

How do I start saving for retirement?

There are two major tax-advantaged ways to save for retirement: employer sponsored plans such as a 401k (private employers) or 403b (public employers like schools) and Individual Retirement Accounts (IRA). The numbered names may look funky but they are named after the IRS codes that established them. Employer sponsored plans are only available through your employer and only if your employer offers one. Anyone can open an IRA as long as he/she meets the IRS criteria for contributing to an IRA. Although there are other ways to save for retirement, these are the two places to start.

Note that neither of these options is actually an investment. Rather, they are containers for investments. Think of them as a lady's purse. A woman does not use her purse to buy things and unless she has a handbag fetish the purse isn't worth a whole lot, but the purse is a container for her cash and credit cards, which are very valuable. Likewise, a 401k and IRA are value-less containers that hold investments (mutual funds, stocks, bonds, etc) and provide tax advantages to any investments held within them. Although people commonly refer to "investing in a 401k" they are not actually investing in a 401k. They are investing in shares of a mutual fund, for example, inside the 401k.

How do I contribute to a 401k?

Through your employer. You will specify how much of your paycheck you want to contribute (usually as a percentage) each pay period at the time you sign up. You can always change the amount later. The designated amount is then taken out of your pay before taxes are calculated. This is called pre-tax money; you have not paid any income taxes on the money in your 401k (or 403b). This lowers your tax liability in the tax years in which you contribute.

That's great. So when do I pay taxes on the money in my 401k?

When you withdraw money from the 401k in your retirement years, distributions received from your 401k account are taxed in the year you receive them and at the tax bracket in which you find yourself at that time, not the tax bracket you were in when you put the money into the account.

What does it mean when my employer says they "match" my 401k?

Many employers encourage you to contribute to the company 401k by offering to match a portion of your contributions. For example, your employer matches 50% of your contributions up to 6% of your salary. (This is a fairly common match amount although some employers will match 100% or may only match up to 4%. It varies by employer.) Your gross pay per period is $2,000 and you contribute 6% to the 401k. That is $120. Your employer matches half of that and contributes $60 on your behalf. That is an immediate 50% return on your $120 investment. If your employer matches, do not pass that up.

Please note that if you contribute more than the 6%, your employer will only match the 6%, or the $60 in this example. There are IRS limits to how much you can contribute to a 401k so make sure that you are not contributing too much above the match early in the year so that you render yourself ineligible to contribute later in the year and thus miss out on a portion of the match.

What does it mean when my employer talks about how I am "vested" in the 401k?

Vested refers to how much claim you have to the portion contributed by the employer to your 401k on your behalf. As an incentive for employees to stay with the company, the company may lay out a vesting schedule for milestones at which you increase your claim to the company match. An example may be:

Until one year of service, you are 0% vested. This means you have no claim to any amount of the company match if you leave before one year of service.
After one year of service, you are vested in 25% of the company match. If you leave after one year of service, you will only be able to take 25% of the company's matching contributions with you.
After two years of service, you are 50% vested. At this point, you would be able to take half the matching contributions with you when you leave.
After three years of service, you are 75% vested.
After four years of service, you are 100% vested. If you leave after four years, you can take all the matching contributions made by the employer with you.

What types of IRAs exist?

There are several types of IRAs and I can't cover them all here. The two basic types of IRAs that are available to almost everyone (subject to income limitations, which I'll explain later) are Traditional IRAs and Roth IRAs. (Trivia: Traditional IRAs used to be simply called IRAs until the creation of other IRAs, such as the Roth IRA, which was created in 1997 and named after Senator William Roth who created the IRA bearing his name.)

A Traditional IRA is funded with pre-tax money, much like a 401k or 403b. The contributions do not come out of your paycheck, however. You will contribute money on your own to your IRA and then take a tax deduction on your tax return the following April, which makes it pre-tax money. Distributions from a Traditional IRA are taxed in retirement like a 401k.

A Roth IRA is funded with after-tax money, unlike a 401k or 403b. You will contribute money on your own to your IRA but you do not get the tax deduction if you contribute to a Roth IRA. The tax-advantage here is that your distributions from the Roth IRA are completely tax free, provided you are at least 59.5 years of age and the account has been open for a minimum of 5 years. If you are younger than 59.5 or the account is younger than 5, you may always withdraw your contributions free of tax or penalty but the earnings must remain in the account until those two conditions are met.

What are the limits to contributing to a Traditional or Roth IRA?

First you must qualify to make contributions to a Traditional or Roth IRA. You must have taxable income during the year. For a Traditional IRA, you must be younger than 70.5 years of age and you will only qualify for the tax deduction if you make less than the modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) limit defined by the IRS for each tax year. For a Roth IRA, you may not contribute at all if you make more then the MAGI limit.

If you qualify, you are then limited to how much you can contribute to an IRA in any given tax year. For the purposes of IRA contributions, the tax year runs from January 1 to April 15 (or the designated tax day which may fall on the 16th or 17th) of the following year. At the time of this writing (2006), the limit for IRA contributions per person is $4,000 per tax year. The contribution limit applies to all IRA accounts of all types in an individual's name. You can contribute to multiple different IRA accounts during the year but the total contributions across all accounts may not exceed the annual limit.

Do I have to choose between a 401k and IRA?

Absolutely not. You can have both types of accounts open at the same time and you may contribute to both in the same year.

What if I don't have money for both a 401k and IRA? How do I choose?

The general rule is to contribute to your 401k up to the point where you max out the employer's match first. If that is 6%, contribute 6%. No more for now. If you have more money you would like to contribute to retirement savings, you then contribute to an IRA, preferably a Roth IRA if you qualify. If you are maxing out the IRA and still have money left to invest for retirement, go back to the 401k and contribute above the amount of the match but of course not more than the annual IRS limit. If you still have even more money to invest after you max the 401k, that is beyond the scope of this FAQ. Post separately or seek advice from a good financial adviser.

Which is better: Traditional IRA or Roth IRA?

Both have advantages; however, if you're young you'll probably see more benefits from the Roth IRA. There is a very real possibility that tax brackets will go up in the future (by the time you retire) so paying taxes now when you are young and probably not in a very high tax bracket (after all, you can't be in a high tax bracket if you qualify for the Roth to begin with) is better than leaving it to chance on what tax brackets will be and how much money you'll have when you retire.

In addition to when you pay taxes, Roth IRAs have other advantages. Your contributions (the money you put in) are always accessible to you. You can withdraw it at any time without penalty or tax. Although you shouldn't do this unless you really need the money, it is nice to have this option in the event of an emergency. Getting money from a 401k or Traditional IRA before retirement age is limited to certain situations and is almost always a ripoff.

Also while a Traditional IRA mandates Required Minimum Distributions, in other words you must begin withdrawing money from a Traditional IRA at age 70.5, a Roth IRA does not require this. If you get to retirement and do not need the money in your Roth IRA (maybe you have money from other sources), you are not required to ever withdraw money from the Roth during your lifetime. You can pass the account to your heirs untouched. You may also continue contributing to the Roth IRA if you still qualify after age 70.5, unlike a Traditional IRA.

Where do I open an IRA?

At an investment firm. Or a bank, but I don't recommend opening an IRA at a bank. Some popular firms with good service and low fees are, in no particular order: Charles Schwab, Muriel Siebert, Fidelity, TD Ameritrade, Vanguard, T Rowe Price, and Etrade.

Keep in mind that an IRA is, itself, not an investment; it is merely a container for investments. Pick a company that offers the investments you want to invest in. Most of these companies offer many of the same funds so your choice may come down to minimum opening balances or annual maintenance fees. Annual maintenance fees are somewhat common and usually very small, but vary by company, and they are acceptable. What is not acceptable (in my opinion) are loaded mutual funds that charge you simply to buy and sell them. Avoid "A share" and "B share" funds; these are loaded funds.

Annual fees will often be waived if you have an account balance over a certain amount. All the more incentive to save.

My employer says I can take a loan from my 401k if I need the money before retirement. Should I do this?

Absolutely not! Taking a loan from a 401k is one of the biggest mistakes you can make with money. Remember your 401k is funded with pre-tax money. When you repay the loan, you are paying it back with post-tax money. Now when you retire and take distributions from the 401k, guess what.. you get to pay taxes all over again on the money you used to repay the loan and on which you've already paid taxes. Most people don't like paying taxes once, let alone twice!

Also another thing to keep in mind is that if you terminate employment with the company for any reason (you leave, get fired, get downsized, etc) while you have an outstanding 401k loan, the full balance of the loan is due IN FULL within 30 days of your departure from the company. If you do not repay the loan within that period, the outstanding balance will be taxed and penalized as an early withdrawal which means you will pay a 10% penalty and have to claim the balance as income on that year's tax return (thus owing taxes on it).

What do I do with a 401k account when I leave an employer?

If you have a large amount of money in the account, you may be allowed to leave it with the employer. If you have a smaller amount, you'll probably have to move it or they'll force a cash-out. The only bad option is cashing-out because it's treated as an early withdrawal and will be both taxed and penalized.

The best option is usually a rollover. There are two types of rollovers: indirect and direct. An indirect rollover (often called simply a "rollover") means the 401k plan administrator gives you the money and then you have 60 days to invest that money in a qualifying retirement plan (such as a traditional/rollover IRA or the 401k plan of a new employer) without owing tax or penalty. If you don't complete the rollover in 60 days, you will be taxed and penalized for an early withdrawal.

The preferred method of rolling over funds is a direct rollover (also called a "trustee-to-trustee transfer"). This means the 401k plan administrator cuts a check for your assets that is directly payable to the new qualifying retirement plan. For example, you open a rollover IRA at Vanguard and tell your employer you wish to roll over your 401k to the Vanguard IRA. The plan administrator cuts a check payable to "Vanguard FBO (for the benefit of) Your Name Here" and then either sends it directly to Vanguard or mails it to you and you send it to Vanguard. You can usually do this entire process online or by telephone and it is very easy. Even if they send the check to you, it is a direct rollover as long as the check is not payable to you.

Can IRAs be converted between types?

You have never paid taxes on money in a Traditional IRA so you can convert a Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA by paying taxes on it. You must be eligible to make Roth IRA contributions to do this but it does not count toward your annual contribution limit. If you make $50,000/yr that is all taxable and you wish to convert a Traditional IRA worth $10,000 to a Roth IRA, you will end up claiming $60,000 in taxable income for the tax year in which you convert.

Be careful when converting. Since the converted amount counts as income, you could potentially render yourself ineligible to contribute to a Roth IRA by converting a large amount at once. It could also bump you into a higher tax bracket. If you're contributing a large sum, it's best to break it up and convert smaller amounts each year over a period of several years.
 
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TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
I copied the above FAQ just to give some general explanations, even though all the 401k stuff doesn't apply to you.

I am 35 years old, I have no debt outside of my home.

That you have no debt (other than a home) is the right first move. Good job there.

Next, the usual recommendation from investing professionals--particularly for someone who isn't trying to turn themselves into a stock wizard--would be to open a Roth IRA and invest in no-load mutual funds. Pick an index fund, which is an investment based on the performance of a few hundred individual investments... but while the investment managers have to sweat out which investments to acquire and sell to maximize the return, we have it easy since we just invest in the fund and then sit back and (hopefully) let it grow.

Above all else, always remember this: investing is not a way to get rich quick. Instead, it is a way to get rich slowly. Time + the miracle of compounding interest = a comfortable retirement, and the sooner you start the better off you'll be. If you want to do some math, here is an excellent retirement calculator:

http://www.daveramsey.com/article/investing-calculator/lifeandmoney_investing/#/entry_form

You can plug in some figures and see what compounding interest can do for you. For example, let's say you're starting fresh with nothing in your account. You decide to invest $500 every month for 30 years (since you're 35 now and might want to retire at 65). Let's plug in an annual return of 7%, which is a fair average return for an index fund. At the end of the 30-year period, you'll have about $606,000 in the account. Now let's say you stop working, which means you'll have no more income to add to your fund. The fund will still grow at the same 7% average rate, which should generate $42,000 of after-tax income for you the first year of your retirement, or $3500 per month. If that's not enough monthly income, invest more per month now to put you where you need to be.

That is the proper way to think long-term. Don't just look for a big account balance; instead, focus on your future monthly income which that balance can earn you and make sure it can meet your anticipated financial requirements. When you retire, your home should be paid off (which will eliminate that big bill each month), but you'll undoubtedly pick up other expenses to take its place (health care costs, for example).

I'm kinda rambling here, but I hope this helps.
 
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rockdog

Guest
I don't think at today's interest rates you could ever retire on an Ira account. I also don't think most people investing in a 401 account will be able to retire comfortably on their investment. If you want to retire with a pretty stable income. Buy rental property's. Be very selective about what you buy. Make sure it will continue to pay for itself long term until it is paid off. If your young this could be your best bet for long term security. It has worked for me!
 

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
I don't think at today's interest rates you could ever retire on an Ira account. I also don't think most people investing in a 401 account will be able to retire comfortably on their investment.

The key is time. The earlier you start, the better off you'll be. Let me return to my earlier example with a Roth IRA and a 7% annual return aimed at retirement at age 65. Look at three different scenarios:

#1: Start at age 25, invest $400 monthly. At 65, you'll have just over $1,000,000.
#2: Wait until 35 to start, invest $600 monthly to try and catch up. At 65, you'll only have just over $725,000.
#3: Wait until 45 to start, invest $800 monthly to really try and make up for lost time. At 65, you'll only have $420,000.

In the above, look carefully at scenarios #1 and #3. Over time, each of them puts the exact same amount of money ($192k) into the fund... but thanks to compounding interest, investor #1 will be far better off than investor #3. And investor #2, who ended up investing more money ($216k) than #1 did, still comes up short at the end. The best advice is obvious: get started now.

It has worked for me!

Glad to hear it.
 
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rockdog

Guest
I have a cd retirement account from a rollover from a previous employer. It is earning sub 1percent right now. 7 percent isn't even realistic in today's market. Long term it very well could be a good investment if you are young. Not saying any one plan is right or wrong. There are ways to try to retire with an income that you can live off of that work for one and be a bust for others. But if you are relying on interest income for your retirement then look at the folks right now trying to do that. It is not a pretty picture.
 

zmotorsports

Hardcore Gearhead
Vendor
Location
West Haven, UT
The only reason my wife and I participate in a 401k is because our company matches dollar for dollar for the first 3% and then .50 cents on the dollar for the next 2%. So basically by putting 5% in they match with 4% equalling 9%. That is the only reason we are contributing to the 401k, we have had it since we were 30 years old and we probably started later than we should, now being 45 and 46.

Seeing as how that is not an option for you, I would highly recommend opening a ROTH IRA and maxing it out each year. This way the earnings/net gains are not taxable. Next I would suggest getting set up with a mutual fund account and start contributing. Right now CD and definitely not savings dividends are going to do much for you, they won't even keep up with inflation.

Having your home as your only debt is a great first move, it gets even better when that is paid off. My wife and I paid ours off in 2006 after turning a 30-year note into a 15-year by paying extra each month and then saving up beyond our emergency fund until we had enough to pay the remainder. Great feeling, now we invest the difference into mutual funds and currently getting a pretty good rate of return, although it depends on the market or sectors that you get into.

You need a lot of one of two things to have financial independence during retirment. Time and Money, if you have a lot of money, you don't need a lot of time and can plan for retirement on fairly short notice. However, if you are like myself and I am sure most of us that don't have a lot of money, you need a lot of time to grow your nest egg. Getting started and having a plan is a good first step.

I work with guys well into their late 40's and early 50's who have done absolutely nothing for retirement, not even participate in the company's matching 401k. If you don't have a plan for success you will default to a plan to fail. My family and my wife's family pretty much all fall under the plan to fail category and don't understand why I am so anal about putting money away for retirement. I will admit, it takes discipline and devotion to the plan but I have seen a couple of my mentors who have been able to retire fairly early, in their mid-50's, and that is what I would like to be able to do.

Good luck and read through the copied and pasted article that TurboMinivan posted, great information there.

Mike.
 

Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
I have a cd retirement account from a rollover from a previous employer. It is earning sub 1percent right now. 7 percent isn't even realistic in today's market. Long term it very well could be a good investment if you are young. Not saying any one plan is right or wrong. There are ways to try to retire with an income that you can live off of that work for one and be a bust for others. But if you are relying on interest income for your retirement then look at the folks right now trying to do that. It is not a pretty picture.

You are confusing %'s. If you have a CD at a bank (that was a rollover from a previous IRA...which doesn't make sense) it is only going to pay you a VERY LOW interest rate right now....however, that CD also has a set time limit on it (24/36/60 months) The 7% that is being suggested above is return on stocks/market/funds, etc. It's completely different and isolated from bank rates. If you look at stocks and the market, the 7% isn't unrealistic. What is unrealistic is when I hear people talk about 10-15% returns. They may happen 1-2 years, but it's not likely going to be an average over 10+ years....whereas 7-8%(per year) is a pretty realistic return rate averaged over 10+ years. Another way to put this is like looking at real estate. the increase in home values is not sub 1% year over year....it's closer to 6% year over year....that 6 % is the return on investment......say invest $100,000 in a property now, and sell it for $179,000 in 10 years....that'd be a 6% average yearly return on your investment.

I am with you on real estate...the problem is, it can't be your only source of retirement. I have a rental property now and plan to add more later...however, I've made the mistake of investing all fund into this property...to get it in better shape and increase the rents. I enjoy it, so it's not a total loss...however, there is little liquidity in real estate. I should've spent less on the repairs/improvements, and put more into a Roth IRA....at least I'd have some form of liquid asset if I ever needed it.

Really, the approach should be pretty broad. I think a Roth IRA is the best way to go (assuming no company matched 401K) the money you put in is available to you IF you needed it. After you fund it fully each year (I think it's now $5500) You can then think about real estate to get more investments. Diversity is the key here.
 
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rockdog

Guest
Pike, I won't disagree with what you have said. I work a government job. I work for low pay, but in the end will get a 20 year retirement from it. (6 years away!) so all my retirement isn't locked up in rental property. But that said, my property is paid for. It does and will in the future guarantee a monthly income I can count on being there every month. I'm on the other end of the equation the op is thinking about. He is smart for thinking about this when he is young! I thought, worried, planned all my life! If you do nothing.... Expect nothing. No risk ..... No gain!
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
I've had 401k's for a few years. My first 401k was managed by the state, when I left that job I opened an account and rolled that money into a target retirement date index fund. I did this because I didn't want to try and understand the ins and outs of investing and for the small amount of money it wasn't worth it to me to pay someone to help. Its been explained above but this type of fund has many different components to spread out the risk. The target date part of it is selected by when I hope to retire (year 2050), since that is down the road a while the fund is taking more risks now but will transition to more secure investments as it gets closer to the target date. This fund also rebalances the different internal components as needed automatically. My new job has employer matching and I've set that money to go into the same fund as my roll over. I checked my numbers from 2014 and my return was 7.3% which I would consider decent.

I'm not great with my money but I've gotten better with time. I read the Personal Finance and Financial Independence sections on reddit to try and keep the principals fresh in my mind. Like everything though you need to think about how it all relates to you and your personal situation which isn't always that easy when you're starting out.

This diagram is something I found on reddit that was useful to me as far as priorities go.
PWfvdvB.png
 
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UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
Now that the emergency has been brought up, let's touch on it a bit more. Having 6 months of expenses in a separate bank account that we don't touch has been the best thing my wife and I have done. Talk about no stress! We had two trips to the ER last year. No sweat. Paid cash for my portions. Best of all, no credit card bills. I still have one card that I use for work expenses, but it has a zero balance on it at the end of every month. I haven't paid interest on it in over a year, but have earned some money off of purchases. If my work didn't require it I wouldn't have one at all.

I think the best thing anyone can do is cut up their credit cards. Start living a life of saving first rather than paying pack later. Dont use a credit card as your emergency fund. Do what ever you can, short of robbing a bank, to build that fund and get rid of your CC's. I think if more people would do this we would have a lot less worry about retirement.

One other thing we do is try to pay cash for everything. I think it's a pain to carry cash everywhere, but for things like doing our weekly groceries, walking in with $xxx amount of money really forces you to buy what you budgeted. We save a ton by not pulling out our debit cards.
 

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
One other thing we do is try to pay cash for everything. I think it's a pain to carry cash everywhere, but for things like doing our weekly groceries, walking in with $xxx amount of money really forces you to buy what you budgeted.

I am also moving back to using cash as much as possible rather than debit/credit plastic transactions. As you said, it certainly helps keep you on budget. The problem with plastic-even if it's a debit account--is that swiping $5 feels exactly the same as swiping $500. It's easy to spend way, way more than you ought to.

Another advantage: when store computer systems get hacked, you never hear about cash customers getting their accounts drained and/or their identity stolen. :D
 

zmotorsports

Hardcore Gearhead
Vendor
Location
West Haven, UT
I've had 401k's for a few years. My first 401k was managed by the state, when I left that job I opened an account and rolled that money into a target retirement date index fund. I did this because I didn't want to try and understand the ins and outs of investing and for the small amount of money it wasn't worth it to me to pay someone to help. Its been explained above but this type of fund has many different components to spread out the risk. The target date part of it is selected by when I hope to retire (year 2050), since that is down the road a while the fund is taking more risks now but will transition to more secure investments as it gets closer to the target date. This fund also rebalances the different internal components as needed automatically. My new job has employer matching and I've set that money to go into the same fund as my roll over. I checked my numbers from 2014 and my return was 7.3% which I would consider decent.

I'm not great with my money but I've gotten better with time. I read the Personal Finance and Financial Independence sections on reddit to try and keep the principals fresh in my mind. Like everything though you need to think about how it all relates to you and your personal situation which isn't always that easy when you're starting out.

This diagram is something I found on reddit that was useful to me as far as priorities go.
View attachment 96973

Take this for what it is worth but you can do much, much better than with the target date accounts. Our company offers these as well and for the first several years I participated in one because it was a put money in and forget it account. Once I did some research and familiarized myself with various options, I decided about four years ago to remove everything from the target date funds and move my money around as I see fit depending on the market and I have done so much better than previously.

The companies set up these target date funds so they can be hands off and not have to either manage the funds or pay others to manage them. Very cheap and easy to manage. Unfortunately, my company's plans are quite restrictive even when not in the target date funds but in order to get the matching funds I have to be enrolled in the company's 401k. I am still able to move things around as much as I want, only once a day, but since I have decided to take a more active approach to my retirement I have done a hell of a lot better. In my ROTH IRA I am not restricted at all and can invest anywhere so I have a lot more investment freedom there. Same with my mutual funds. It is just that damn 401k that is so restrictive.

Mike
 

zmotorsports

Hardcore Gearhead
Vendor
Location
West Haven, UT
I am also moving back to using cash as much as possible rather than debit/credit plastic transactions. As you said, it certainly helps keep you on budget. The problem with plastic-even if it's a debit account--is that swiping $5 feels exactly the same as swiping $500. It's easy to spend way, way more than you ought to.

Another advantage: when store computer systems get hacked, you never hear about cash customers getting their accounts drained and/or their identity stolen. :D

I agree, we use more cash over the past 8 or so years. Mainly just for smaller amount transactions, I refuse to use my credit/debit for a cup of coffee or a burger/sandwich. However, if we go out to a nice dinner and for most of our larger purchases we still use our CC because we don't carry a balance and we get a certain percentage back each quarter. It is not much but it is a kickback or approx. $130.00-$150.00 per quarter.

Mike.
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
Take this for what it is worth but you can do much, much better than with the target date accounts. Our company offers these as well and for the first several years I participated in one because it was a put money in and forget it account. Once I did some research and familiarized myself with various options, I decided about four years ago to remove everything from the target date funds and move my money around as I see fit depending on the market and I have done so much better than previously.

The companies set up these target date funds so they can be hands off and not have to either manage the funds or pay others to manage them. Very cheap and easy to manage. Unfortunately, my company's plans are quite restrictive even when not in the target date funds but in order to get the matching funds I have to be enrolled in the company's 401k. I am still able to move things around as much as I want, only once a day, but since I have decided to take a more active approach to my retirement I have done a hell of a lot better. In my ROTH IRA I am not restricted at all and can invest anywhere so I have a lot more investment freedom there. Same with my mutual funds. It is just that damn 401k that is so restrictive.

Mike

I understand my money could be doing better but at this point in my life I didn't want to play with it. At some point I figure I will learn more and go from there but I'm content with the target accounts.
 

zmotorsports

Hardcore Gearhead
Vendor
Location
West Haven, UT
Mike, have you heard any of the recent rumors that the government is now looking at these as taxable earnings? Yours is a good example of folks that can take advantage of this. Most can't. I've gotten $25 here and there when I have the money for something but charge it just to get the "points." It's not something I do with regularity, though.

Something else I've recently changed is putting a little less down on extra principal and instead putting it to my 401k. My mortgage is 3.25% and my returns have been much higher on my 401k so it didn't make much sense. I'm on my way to have the house paid off in 12-13 years time. Some say even that's too fast. For me, it's psychological. I want to own the damn thing.

As well, I've been doing side work that could potentially increase to decent annual earnings. Every penny earned will go back toward investing/making more $.

I have heard the government is looking at taxing these percentages earned as income but I figured until it happens I may as well take advantage of it, while it lasts I guess.

I had many people telling me that paying off my home early is not a good idea because "you need a tax shelter", but to be honest I could never quite wrap my head around that. Maybe I am simple minded but paying a little extra in taxes is better than paying a shitload extra in interest. I applaud you for taking on side work/jobs. If I had not done that I would be nowhere near where I am today. I have had a side business doing work since 1997 and I continually have my co-workers tell me I am crazy for working so much. I enjoy it and much of that extra or side earned money is what equipped my shop, paid our home off early and put my son through college.

I know people who do like you are saying and pay minumum and invest the remainder and if you can discipline yourself to do that then it works and you can make more on interest earned than what you are paying, especially if only paying a few percent on a mortgage.

My wife and I busted our asses to get our home paid off early. My goal was to have it paid off by the time I was 40 and we had it paid off by the time I was 37 years old. After that, yes I have paid more in taxes but to be able to put that monthly payment to work for me rather than against me has been HUGE in planning for retirment. You will be amazed at how fast a couple thousand a month can add up and then couple that with compound interest.

This is a great discussion guys. I wish I would have had something like this to motivate me more when I was younger. Maybe I would have started in my early 20's rather than waiting until I was 30 to start thinking about retirement. Funny thing is I am only 46 now and I find myself thinking about retirement a LOT. Probably more than I should but it keeps me focused and on track.

Mike.
 

zmotorsports

Hardcore Gearhead
Vendor
Location
West Haven, UT
I understand my money could be doing better but at this point in my life I didn't want to play with it. At some point I figure I will learn more and go from there but I'm content with the target accounts.

No problem. I was like that at one point but eventually I just wanted to take a more active role in my planning and make my money do more for me than it was. When you get to that point where you feel comfortable and learn more about it I am sure it will click with you.

I was as hard headed as they came back when I first started investing and no one could tell me different but as I sought to find more information and learned about how to manage my money better it slowly started making more sense and I became more comfortable.

All in our own time at our own pace. I just thought I would throw that out there.

Mike.
 

jeeper

I live my life 1 dumpster at a time
Location
So Jo, Ut
Real estate is our game. I got in before the '08 mess, and have still been ok. I started my realestate learning from guys that taught how to leverage everything on everything to make huge potential gains. Big risk means big money. They are now bankrupt and in jail for fraud.. I have developed a much more passive approach of knowing a good deal and seizing it when timing is right, then letting it grow at a more stable, comfortable, low risk rate.

If nothing changes for us, I am set to bring in about $75k passive income per year in about 20 years. Hopefully rents increase, and hopefully purchase more in the future... Creating more income.
However, 20-30 years from now, I have no desire to put up with tenant B.S. So I'll have to find a way to transfer to another income source.
 
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