RME Foreign Policy on Iraq---Solve International Problems....

Brett

Meat-Hippy
Okay, every one of you on here that support our foreign policy dealing with the situation in Iraq, tell me why and what reasons you have for believing that it's better to stay.


And yes, I am serious

ninja edit: basically, I want to know why you think that Bush is right and that the the opinions of others (like Andersons) are wrong. Just your point of view really
 
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mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Brett said:
Okay, every one of you on here that support our foreign policy dealing with the situation in Iraq, tell me why and what reasons you have for believing that it's better to stay.


And yes, I am serious

Let's just say there was NO reason to go in there and oust the Saddam regime for the sake of argument. (that could be debated with valid points on either side and in between for weeks) We've REMOVED a government and we do need to provide security until the new government can take care of itself. I'd hope we are doing that, but with our F*CKED/biased press coverage, no one would know. If you actually talk to a soldier, they are PROUD of what they are doing there and will actually make you feel like we are doing good things.

If we just leave without a strongish democratic government, there will be a struggle for power (basicly a civil war). I'm not sure there's a way around that, but I think we owe the Iraqi people what we've promised them and then we need to get out of other peoples business (we can barely take care of our own crap domestically).


OCNORB said:
..........What we need to do is make damn sure our fighting boys are not cut and left out to dry in a hasty retreat. I have a brother-in-law in Iraq, and the last thing he needs is someone from "back home" making his job harder or more dangerous.


I think that's as important as anything.
 

SAMI

Formerly Beardy McGee
Location
SLC, UT
mbryson said:
If we just leave without a strongish democratic government, there will be a struggle for power (basicly a civil war). I'm not sure there's a way around that, but I think we owe the Iraqi people what we've promised them and then we need to get out of other peoples business (we can barely take care of our own crap domestically).

Didn't George Washington warn against getting involved with others' issues and problems, and how it would eventually lead to our own countries' down fall? maybe it was someone else...

-Jason
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
SAMI said:
Didn't George Washington warn against getting involved with others' issues and problems, and how it would eventually lead to our own countries' down fall? maybe it was someone else...

-Jason

George Washington or whomever............. It's a good idea. (even if it's Rocky Anderson's) (then there's that whole 'trade' thing....... You do this for us, we'll send you nice televisions and cars....... our contry is now a police force and bank. Nobody really likes either function, but it's hard to live without either one and they are necessary.)
 

Brett

Meat-Hippy
mbryson said:
Let's just say there was NO reason to go in there and oust the Saddam regime for the sake of argument. (that could be debated with valid points on either side and in between for weeks) We've REMOVED a government and we do need to provide security until the new government can take care of itself. I'd hope we are doing that, but with our F*CKED/biased press coverage, no one would know. If you actually talk to a soldier, they are PROUD of what they are doing there and will actually make you feel like we are doing good things.

If we just leave without a strongish democratic government, there will be a struggle for power (basicly a civil war). I'm not sure there's a way around that, but I think we owe the Iraqi people what we've promised them and then we need to get out of other peoples business (we can barely take care of our own crap domestically).





I think that's as important as anything.

When do we see that happening, with the insurgents constantly fighting us? They don't want us there and unfortunately, the normal people in Iraq don't stand up to them. Their police force and the training of their new army will help, but the problem still is that they have a hard time fighting their own people.

Media coverage is definately biased I am sure. There are a few people here at work that read Arabic newspapers online and they tell different stories than what we hear through our own. It would be great if we could actually know how things are going. I don't know anyone that has been over there recently (Army or otherwise) so I can't say that I know how they feel about it. If the people you've talked to feel good about what they are doing, then good, I like knowing that they are proud of what they do. If it were the other way around, then it might be time to change things.

And you are right, we can't change the fact that things were misrepresented at the beginning of this entire campaign. I would really really like to know if the facts were intentionally falsified or if our goverment did think that there were weapons in Iraq. We probably won't ever know unfortunately. Wrapped up in red tape in the basement of some wharehouse is that folder with that info. ;)
 

mbryson

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Supporting Member
Brett said:
.......... We probably won't ever know unfortunately. Wrapped up in red tape in the basement of some wharehouse is that folder with that info. ;)


We still don't KNOW the whole Kennedy assasination and you want to know about weapons of mass destruction? Come on....... :D
 

OCNORB

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
Alpine
mbryson said:
We still don't KNOW the whole Kennedy assasination and you want to know about weapons of mass destruction? Come on....... :D

Yes, even if the govt was 100% honest, somebody would call it a cover up!:rofl:
 

Brett

Meat-Hippy
mbryson said:
George Washington or whomever............. It's a good idea. (even if it's Rocky Anderson's) (then there's that whole 'trade' thing....... You do this for us, we'll send you nice televisions and cars....... our contry is now a police force and bank. Nobody really likes either function, but it's hard to live without either one and they are necessary.)


The problem I have with the US acting as a police force is the fact that the UN is the governing authority that should be doing this. The US likes to step in and just do their own thing when, personally, I think that it would be better if it was decided in the UN council. That's why we have a United Nations and a Security Council. Take Lebanon and Israel for example. The UN stepped in, negotiated an agreement and got a cease fire. We all do remember that we never had the rest of the world behind us on Afganistan and Iraq.....?
 

OCNORB

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
Alpine
Brett said:
When do we see that happening, with the insurgents constantly fighting us? They don't want us there and unfortunately, the normal people in Iraq don't stand up to them. Their police force and the training of their new army will help, but the problem still is that they have a hard time fighting their own people.

Media coverage is definately biased I am sure. There are a few people here at work that read Arabic newspapers online and they tell different stories than what we hear through our own. It would be great if we could actually know how things are going. I don't know anyone that has been over there recently (Army or otherwise) so I can't say that I know how they feel about it. If the people you've talked to feel good about what they are doing, then good, I like knowing that they are proud of what they do. If it were the other way around, then it might be time to change things.

And you are right, we can't change the fact that things were misrepresented at the beginning of this entire campaign. I would really really like to know if the facts were intentionally falsified or if our goverment did think that there were weapons in Iraq. We probably won't ever know unfortunately. Wrapped up in red tape in the basement of some wharehouse is that folder with that info. ;)

Well said.

Here is the latest e-mail I have from the bro-in-law:

Hello friends and family,

I haven't written in a while, so I thought that I would send you all a brief update on what is going on with me here in Mosul, Iraq. Things here are quiete most of the time, but make no mistake about it, we are in a war. Often I here the warning sirens go off, and I retreat to my bunker, which is right outside my door. The sirens go off and sometimes I hear and feel the impact of the mortar or artillery round, sometimes not.

My new job as a convoy commander keeps me on the roads most of the time. We escort up to 90 semi trucks to and from Habur Gate near the Turkish boarder. It is challenging, because they always break down and we are responsible for getting the trucks running. To add to the challenges, all the trucks are driven by third country nationals (usually Pakistanis, Aghgans, and Turks). Our convoys often span the distance of 10-15 miles.

I usually sleep in another camp, coming back to Mosul once every three days. The roads inside the city are littered with so much trash and rubble that it is difficult to tell where the enemy is hiding the roadside bombs. In the country outside the city, they usually bury the Improvised explosive devices (IED) so you don't see them either. Our company has had many IEDs go off on our convoys, but fortunately no serious injuries. We have great equipment that protects us from most of these blasts, so Mom don't worry.

On a positive note, on one of my last convoys, I went through the ruins of Nineva (remember Jonaha and the whale?). It was dark, but I could see the huge walls surrounding Nineva as we entered the city of Mosul. I could not help but think to myself, "This is the cradle of civilization, the holy land, and we are fighting this crazy war right in the middle of it."

I continue to get support from home. I received some care packages and mail from friends and family everywhere. Thank you. It means a lot to hear about familiar things, especially when it involves people that I love and care about. I truly feel your thoughts and prayers guide me.

I hope and pray that all is well with each of you.

God Bless,

Nate
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Brett said:
The problem I have with the US acting as a police force is the fact that the UN is the governing authority that should be doing this. The US likes to step in and just do their own thing when, personally, I think that it would be better if it was decided in the UN council. That's why we have a United Nations and a Security Council. Take Lebanon and Israel for example. The UN stepped in, negotiated an agreement and got a cease fire. We all do remember that we never had the rest of the world behind us on Afganistan and Iraq.....?

You're totally right, but I believe the UN to be a bunch of spineless, corrupt dwebes that are only interested in what THEY can get out of things. The concept of the UN is great, but it's got way to many cheifs and not enough indians (all in the name of diplomacy). The French have a governing seat and they seem to EXCEL at getting their asses kicked in every major European conflict.

Let's see how the Isreal/Lebanon thing works out. I bet that lasts long.........Wasn't it the Brits (under the UN's blessing) that set up Isreal for the Jews? That's worked out splendidly. The Isrealis would have been better off in New Mexico or somewhere.....(that'd fix our other immigration issue, wouldn't it?)
 

Brett

Meat-Hippy
One other question while I am thinking about it........what do you all think of ol' Rummy's comments that the people that disagree with the Bush administrations policies are becoming fascists?
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Brett said:
One other question while I am thinking about it........what do you all think of ol' Rummy's comments that the people that disagree with the Bush administrations policies are becoming fascists?

I don't know jack about Rumsfeld. I don't trust him or any other politician.


{I'd LOVE to have someone to vote for that I thought would do the job. Unfortunately, we've had to choose the best of the worst in the past 40--50? years worth of presidential elections. The only people that I've seen show leadership in the last few years are Guiliani, Norm Schwartzkoff and Condi Rice(to a certain degree). None of the want the President job (unless Guiliani has changed his mind)}
 

SAMI

Formerly Beardy McGee
Location
SLC, UT
Brett said:
The problem I have with the US acting as a police force is the fact that the UN is the governing authority that should be doing this. The US likes to step in and just do their own thing when, personally, I think that it would be better if it was decided in the UN council. That's why we have a United Nations and a Security Council. Take Lebanon and Israel for example. The UN stepped in, negotiated an agreement and got a cease fire. We all do remember that we never had the rest of the world behind us on Afganistan and Iraq.....?

that's the point i was making a few posts up.... the US likes to micro manage at times... and then it gets caught up in a mess...

at this point it seems to me that there will be criticism either way... we pull out now, well then the US Govnt are lying pansies cause they couldn't fix and end what they promised they would... and if we stay, we're still liars for not finding any weapons of mass destruction, and a bunch of trigger happy cowboys for keeping the fight "that doesn't need to take place" an on-going affair....

My buddy's dad told us all while growing up this fact of marriage, "you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't". i think that applies to so much more than just marriage.. :D

But i am highly in favor of supporting our troops so that they don't get the carpet pulled out from under them...

-Jason
 
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Brett

Meat-Hippy
mbryson said:
I don't know jack about Rumsfeld. I don't trust him or any other politician.


{I'd LOVE to have someone to vote for that I thought would do the job. Unfortunately, we've had to choose the best of the worst in the past 40--50? years worth of presidential elections.}


Here's a quick one.......if any of you could, would you rather have had Clinto still in office, or do you think that Bush is doing better?




Lunch time, I'll be back in a bit to see my responses. :)
 

mbryson

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Supporting Member
Brett said:

Honestly, I think he's right. We made our bed. We need to lie in it until we can get out with some grace. If we COULD do it right, we could have a powerful Middle Eastern allie (free Iraq). I don't know that it can be done though, as Iraq is not a 'natural' country. (kinda like the Slavic states in Eastern Europe) I wouldn't be surprised to have a Kurdish state and a few other tribal states spring out of a civil war in the area. I doubt we can do that now.
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Brett said:
Here's a quick one.......if any of you could, would you rather have had Clinto still in office, or do you think that Bush is doing better?




Lunch time, I'll be back in a bit to see my responses. :)

No..... I think he didn't deal with these problems for 8 years.
 
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