So do you support Arizona?

[JoeT]

Go Sandstrom!

Rep. Sandstrom unveils proposed Utah immigration bill

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=833&sid=11981748

 

[Bobzilla]

I'm for ARIZONA!!!! hell yea, Jan Brewer for President, some one in office with some balls for once,

I am of Hispanic decent born in the USA, proud of my Country, proud of our english language and all the positives this country stands for. So take your wonderful language back over the border with you & leave now.

When these guys destroy the flag on our soil they should have the S---T kicked right outta them, I hope some of illegals are reading, destroy it in front of me & my friends and you will be sorry you did!

I grew up in SLC, I was sick of the illegals 30 years ago and I am sick of them now, simple if your illegal get the hell out of our country or we will kick your asses outta here, key word "ILLEGAL" meaning against the law!

VOTE VOTE VOTE all these politicians outta office that are pro illegal, VOTE em all out this November & keep voting them out every chance you get!!!

GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS & GOD BLESS AMERICA!! LAND THAT I LOVE!
TAKE IT TO THE BANK

 

[UNSTUCK]

I believe everyone has a right to better their position in life for themselves and their family. If I was in a shitty spot with no options and the solution was to walk to Idaho where things would be better, but it was illegal, I would start walking right now. You would do the same thing.

I would not. I might want to, but it would be against the law.

I could kill my boss and then I'd get his job. That would make things a lot better for my family. But that too is illegal.

If something is illegal and we do it anyways, are we man enough to take the punishment?


I too am for some kind of immigration reform. I like the idea of a 2 year work permit as a trial period. In that time I would expect the person to learn english and be able to pass the graduation test that all of our high school kids must pass, in english. Then if you commit x amount of crimes you get kicked out.
Why is something like this so hard to do? If you want come here and live by our rules. Fine.

 

[Herzog]

Go Sandstrom!

Rep. Sandstrom unveils proposed Utah immigration bill

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=833&sid=11981748

I think we should all email Sandstrom with our support.

 

[ricsrx]

I believe everyone has a right to better their position in life for themselves and their family. If I was in a shitty spot with no options and the solution was to walk to Idaho where things would be better, but it was illegal, I would start walking right now. You would do the same thing.

OK I agree with this, My example: I was in a fairly shitty situation with my life years ago, I made decisions to make it better for me and my family and that included going to a foreign county. Guess what, I had to follow that countries rules and laws to make it happen, once I got the green light to go, I had to carry my visa and my return transportation tickets with me at all times, I got stopped at a few guard stations and gladly showed my papers, in fact all foreign people had to do it, So how did they know who was foreign..... by the color of my skin........

Did i get in there and then apply for all government hand outs ,no it was not available for me, did I march on the imperial palace and cry foul because i was treated differently than a legal citizen.....No.

I knew my place, was grateful to have a job, I made no waves that could get me deported.

I just don't understand why illegals in this country think they ares so entitled to all that an American citizen has rights too.

Or do they feel that way because they know thru past practises that Americans are week, and if pushed hard enough we will cave.....
For every one that stands with Arizona, I don't think we are saying we do not want any one from other countries to come here. I say we are tired of being call week and and pushing back and standing up for our country.

Go Arizona

Rick

 

[Tacoma]

I would have enjoyed counterheckling at Sandstrom's deal.

I know several people who went through the process to become legal citizens. They are not fans of freeloaders.

 

[Dirty Harry]

When these guys destroy the flag on our soil they should have the S---T kicked right outta them, I hope some of illegals are reading, destroy it in front of me & my friends and you will be sorry you did!

While the images are certainly appalling, did you ever take a step back and ask yourself why the media might be using these particular images associated with this issue? Certainly the people in those photos do not represent all illegal immigrants, who in all likelyhood are keeping a very low profile right now. Maybe, just maybe, they are propaganda?

I find the comments about "freeloaders" and the like interesting, because my experience with illegal immigrants has been just the opposite. Many get USED by the system with pay that is well below minimum wage and by paying into social security and other services that they will never get back. In fact many economists believe that illegal immigrants offer a net benefit to our economy, although this is difficult to track.

I still believe that the real solution is revising the laws regarding entry to our country.

 

[SICK99TJ]

Makes perfect sense to me

Sadly this country has slid into giving more rights to non-citizens then citizens themselves.

Man i could not have said this any better, who the hell goes somewhere knowingly committing a violation of the law, and then has the nuts to ***** about unfair treatment. Get the hell out of the country in which everyday you are here breaking laws...Sorry I only support legal immigration, you are not here legally you should be gone.

 

[Tacoma]

While the images are certainly appalling, did you ever take a step back and ask yourself why the media might be using these particular images associated with this issue? Certainly the people in those photos do not represent all illegal immigrants, who in all likelyhood are keeping a very low profile right now. Maybe, just maybe, they are propaganda?
.

So what? Does that make them.. less illegal? What's your point? No matter if they are La Raza or that guy Pablo you worked summers with, illegal aliens are illegal aliens.

I'd like to hear some details on "revising immigration laws". I've heard this a lot from opponents of.. illegalizing illegality but never any details. What exactly is wrong with the current law, as far as entry.

Of course, I'd argue that immigration law needs to be reformed to beef up our borders and put some teeth in the current penalties, but I'm hawkish and mean.

 

[Cody]

I would not. I might want to, but it would be against the law.

So is speeding. I bet if your wife was ill and had 15 minutes to make it to the hospital, you would make it there, law be damned. What if your wife was ill, and the only cure was on the other side of the border. What if you knew you couldn't get "legal" clearance in time, but you knew you could make it over without it and get her the care she needed?

Unfortunately, I value my life and well being above an imaginary line drawn in the sand by a government stocked with people from privilege.

As has been pointed out before, I'm somewhat of a secular humanist and moral absolutist. I wouldn't kill someone to better my position (unless it is kill or be killed), but there are certain fundamental rights that I put in front of government mandated constraints.

I too am for some kind of immigration reform. I like the idea of a 2 year work permit as a trial period. In that time I would expect the person to learn english and be able to pass the graduation test that all of our high school kids must pass, in english. Then if you commit x amount of crimes you get kicked out.
Why is something like this so hard to do? If you want come here and live by our rules. Fine.

agreed.

 

[bobmed]

I'm hawkish and mean.

Yes, you are.

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

I bet you all are going to be shocked, but I do not support Arizona. I think these laws have more to do with getting support for re-election than they do with fixing the problem. Instead of spending resources finding solutions we will spend them on both sides fighting for or against laws that will have no positive effect on the problem but will instead cause further division between the people who should be working together to fix this.

 

[Dirty Harry]

So what? Does that make them.. less illegal? What's your point? No matter if they are La Raza or that guy Pablo you worked summers with, illegal aliens are illegal aliens.

"Legality" isn't really the issue to me, I break laws all the time (speed for instance) and refrain from activities that are perfectly legal (like eating fast food). I guess I don't put as much stock in the laws that politicians create as you do.

I'd like to hear some details on "revising immigration laws". I've heard this a lot from opponents of.. illegalizing illegality but never any details. What exactly is wrong with the current law, as far as entry.

I want to make it easier for people who want to work for a better life to come here from Mexico. For them to be able to assimilate instead of having to feel like they need to hide. The fact is we need unskilled labor in this country. If you want to punish illegality, I'd like to see stiffer penalties for companies who exploit illegal labor.

 

[Tacoma]

"Legality" isn't really the issue to me, I break laws all the time (speed for instance) and refrain from activities that are perfectly legal (like eating fast food). I guess I don't put as much stock in the laws that politicians create as you do.

I think you presume much about my observation of the law. Kidding aside though, the intention is to keep a civil society. You think that's going to hold up very long if nothing is done about illegal aliens? Do you think anyone can afford it?
The more we support it via no enforcement, the more the scale will tip towards an unpayable bill-- public services (for non-citizens!!), health care, etc etc do not pay themselves. And let's not be naive about the use of such services by illegal aliens-- it's a reason to come here.
And what does it say to the people trying to come here legally???

Why should anyone support illegal aliens? What is the motivation there? I don't understand it. Mexico sucks, yeah, but the government isn't machine-gunning citizens in the streets, as in say, Cambodia or East Germany.

PS I speed like a $%$^!@!$#%@^ and am fully prepared to pay the ticket. So what's different, philosophically, about checking someone's residential status if they're nailed for something? I wouldn't expect the cop to just write me a speeding ticket and NOT check to see if my license was valid, if I had any warrants, etc etc. This whole argument is ridiculous. If AZ isn't allowed to check this out, then I demand that they don't ask ME, either.

I want to make it easier for people who want to work for a better life to come here from Mexico. For them to be able to assimilate instead of having to feel like they need to hide. The fact is we need unskilled labor in this country. If you want to punish illegality, I'd like to see stiffer penalties for companies who exploit illegal labor.

What's so hard about getting in NOW? It could take less time, maybe. I'd agree with that. There are some good suggestions a few posts up, I like the sounds of them.
And yeah, I think they SHOULD nail companies--- right after they back the f**k off on taxes so it's economically viable to hire Americans again.

 

[Brett]

I think you presume much about my observation of the law. Kidding aside though, the intention is to keep a civil society. You think that's going to hold up very long if nothing is done about illegal aliens? Do you think anyone can afford it?
The more we support it via no enforcement, the more the scale will tip towards an unpayable bill-- public services (for non-citizens!!), health care, etc etc do not pay themselves. And let's not be naive about the use of such services by illegal aliens-- it's a reason to come here.
And what does it say to the people trying to come here legally???

Why should anyone support illegal aliens? What is the motivation there? I don't understand it. Mexico sucks, yeah, but the government isn't machine-gunning citizens in the streets, as in say, Cambodia or East Germany.

PS I speed like a $%$^!@!$#%@^ and am fully prepared to pay the ticket. So what's different, philosophically, about checking someone's residential status if they're nailed for something? I wouldn't expect the cop to just write me a speeding ticket and NOT check to see if my license was valid, if I had any warrants, etc etc. This whole argument is ridiculous. If AZ isn't allowed to check this out, then I demand that they don't ask ME, either.





What's so hard about getting in NOW? It could take less time, maybe. I'd agree with that. There are some good suggestions a few posts up, I like the sounds of them.
And yeah, I think they SHOULD nail companies--- right after they back the f**k off on taxes so it's economically viable to hire Americans again.

Bold on my point......

So when is it okay to ask a person of US descent, who's mother and father have been born in the United States, where they were born? I have a friend who was asked this exact question last week, before anything else other than license and registration. She's lived in the US for her entire life, as has her parents and grandparents (legally, since I'm guessing you might jump to illegal immigrants!!!!!), but this is the first question she's asked? Is it profiling or racism just because she's Hispanic? I'm guessing that most of you in support of this bill/law will say no, but I'd like you to explain your reasoning.

All that I see from the law in Arizona and this bill being introduced is more hatred, bigotry and racism. I agree with Cody, if you were in such dire straits that taking a walk across the border would solve all your problems and provide your family with a way out of hardship, you'd do it. You say you won't, I don't believe you. As has been pointed out, no one ever complains about any of the many other ethnic people that are in the US illegally. They all focus on one group, which I would beg any of you supporting this bill to deny that you aren't doing the same.

If you want to solve the problem, fix the existing system, make it something that works and doesn't take 4 years for you just to be told no, sorry, we can't allow you in.

 

[Tacoma]

I disagree with that cop asking your friend that question-- but I don't think non-citizens should be able to have LICENSES-- if there is some non-citizen driving card based on their home country's license, that's different, I don't know because I've never driven outside the country--- Anyway my point is that US citizens shouldn't have to worry about it, but they do, because there's plenty of messed up stuff going on with illegal aliens getting licenses and SS cards, etc. That needs to be fixed.

short answer: I support AZ, but not racism. I do support profiling too, though. And I'll explain why: Profiling is going on whether you call it that or not-- cops looking for whatever markers they're looking for are profiling the general public. Great way to ID potential crime! Look for the things that show crimes going on. I have never understood the big deal about that. Can it go too far, yes, it absolutely can, but hey, there's checks and balances-- courts and lawyers, and legistlative moderation through legislation. It's not a perfect system, so don't get me wrong-- I expect there will be some swinging back and forth for a bit on either side of the line before things get settled down.

I don't see this creating any more hatred, bigotry or racism. I see people being allowed and in some cases encouraged to break the law creating more hatred, bigotry and racism, sure. But not enforcing law already on the books federally.

EDIT: I agree with you about the current immigration timetable taking way too long, for no really good reason.

 

[Chevycrew]

I am personally against all illegals, from any country.

Make the DL or ID only available to persons within the country legally. That would prevent an officer from having to ask.. I have no problems providing mine when asked.

If you want to be a good, stand up person, and earn $ for your family back home, south, north, or overseas, do it legally! Dont provide for your family by teaching them to be criminals.


Edit: I was figuring out how to say what I wanted, while Tacoma was posting his.

 

[jackjoh]

We have discussed this subject to death so what is the bottom line? Lets come up with a consensus opinion and deliver it to Sandstorm. Talk is cheap, just listen to ourselves and our politicians. There is enough intelligence here to come up with something useful or we could just prove why the government is having such a big problem.

 

[muleskinner]

Why not make it a law that everyone has to show proof of citizenship if pulled over/detained? White, brown, black, pink or whatever color you are. If you can't provide proper documentation you get deported.

I will start today if that stops all the "racism and profiling" comments. Profile everyone. The bottom line is, profiling works.

 

[Maverick]

Sounds good so why don't they do it instead of coming here.

They actually are, to some degree. My neighbor, an attorney for the fed, has been down several times as part of a project teaching them about the court system and how to set one up that is legit. He's got some pretty funny (and scary) stories.

Brett