So do you support Arizona?

[Bobzilla]

PROFILE EVERYONE!!!

Why not make it a law that everyone has to show proof of citizenship if pulled over/detained? White, brown, black, pink or whatever color you are. If you can't provide proper documentation you get deported.

I will start today if that stops all the "racism and profiling" comments. Profile everyone. The bottom line is, profiling works.

I'm with you profile all us anyhow anyway right away! I am of Hispanic decent so whoopty doo, I want to be profiled now, that is the best dam idea I have heard, you do not have proof, deport anyone and every last one, black, blue, green who cares easy soulution!!

 

[jackjoh]

If a white guy commits a crime why would you stop a green guy. Profiling is here to stay and is a necessary tool of law enforcement.

 

[Bobzilla]

If a white guy commits a crime why would you stop a green guy. Profiling is here to stay and is a necessary tool of law enforcement.

Correct and right on the mark, but to insure no one keeps playing the race card, profile everyone now, mandatory profiling quick, effective and is done with no pejudice, profile everyone now with deadlines set in each state.

 

[ID Bronco]

If a white guy commits a crime why would you stop a green guy. Profiling is here to stay and is a necessary tool of law enforcement.

Correct and right on the mark, but to insure no one keeps playing the race card, profile everyone now, mandatory profiling quick, effective and is done with no pejudice, profile everyone now with deadlines set in each state.

It is silly that we have to over do something to make it fair. What Jack said is true, if the description of the law breaker is tatoos all over his face why look for folks without them, you get the point. If it takes everyone proving then so be it, but I am not real excited for the govt. to get more in my face than they are now.

 

[Bobzilla]

It is silly that we have to over do something to make it fair. What Jack said is true, if the description of the law breaker is tatoos all over his face why look for folks without them, you get the point. If it takes everyone proving then so be it, but I am not real excited for the govt. to get more in my face than they are now.

Agreed it is ridiculous thing to have to do, but how else do you appease the race card players, excuses and the race issue is bullshit but there are to many gutless politicians that will continue to do nothing, while I agree it is silly, if it was the answer so be it, I will volunteer now.

 

[Brett]

Why not make it a law that everyone has to show proof of citizenship if pulled over/detained? White, brown, black, pink or whatever color you are. If you can't provide proper documentation you get deported.

I will start today if that stops all the "racism and profiling" comments. Profile everyone. The bottom line is, profiling works.

"Papers, please"

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

Just a thought, but how many of you are concerned about government spending? Because what your describing to round up all of these Illegals, and deport them, according to Utah's attorney general, Ogden's police chief, and multiple other law enforcement officials would result in multiple temporary camps set up for the hundreds of illegals that were rounded up for deportation, and then result in them being let free because there would not be sufficient funding to complete the process of deporting them. But it would eat up a good chunk of the current law enforcements budgets to get them that far. All of this effort, and funds spent, will be for nothing.
How about we pass laws we can enforce realistically? How about we come up with a realistic fine that would be feasable for the illeagals to pay, and become documented immigrants. The crime of being here illegally is approximately the same as a speeding ticket for 10 mph over the limit. So in whatever city, county, whatever, have them go to the courthouse immediately and pay the same fine that would be imposed for the speeding ticket. Whether they plan to stay long term or not the majority of them would gladly check in. Then give them a resident card that validates their status as an immigrant, and a social security number so that they can legally pay taxes into our system. Give them 90 days to become legitimate, and then start enforcing the immigration laws that are currently on the books. The state of Utah is already requiring employers to fill out additional paperwork for new hires, in an effort keep a closer eye on who could be hiring illegals, and could crack down further with time.
This problem has been ongoing for how many years? It's naive to think that it can be solved with a couple of states passing worthless laws is going to solve the problem. And don't try to make the argument that this is good because it gets the topic more publicity and will force our government to act and do something about it. It's a divisive issue that is used by politicians to get people to scream hateful rhetoric from their rooftops, justified by some feeling of moral superiority, and further divide the people that want division in the first place.

 

[muleskinner]

have them go to the courthouse immediately and pay the same fine that would be imposed for the speeding ticket. Whether they plan to stay long term or not the majority of them would gladly check in.

That would only work on honest people who obey our laws. If you start out in our country breaking the law why would you care about a fine? What if they don't pay it? Then what do we do?

I had an illegal person of Mexican decent come in my studio for an immigration photo about a month ago. I talked to him for about an hour about this subject. He is getting his citizenship right now because he was afraid Utah will follow Arizona's law. Seems to be working to me?

He said the process is easy, it is just a little slow. (6 months) The cost was between $300-500.

I still think making it a felony for employers to hire illegals would solve 70% of our problem.

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

I still think making it a felony for employers to hire illegals would solve 70% of our problem.

Agreed. i was in the position of having to ask applicants about their status and talked to many that were illegal. The majority of them would gladly check in and pay the fee to keep out of trouble. And the ones the ones that aren't interested in obeying the law? Forget about profiling, if you hand the officer a valid state drivers license, or drivers privilege card your good. If you don't have one, your going to jail for e few hours to figure it out. No profiling necessary.

And by the way, you can rest easy that this will not happen anytime soon. the political climate right now treats anyone with a rational, realistic plan to get all of them documented without first deporting them and making them start over is accused of offering amnesty to criminals, and faces the tea party's wrath, and hurts their election chances.

 

[ID Bronco]

buy every one of them a bus ticket back and drop them off. Then, take the bill out of the foreign aid budget for that country. The money could be there but the lack of back bone of nearly all polititians won't allow it.

 

[Tacoma]

I would hazard a guess that deporting illegal aliens costs much less than paying for them to stay here and suck off the system for generations.

 

[muleskinner]

I would hazard a guess that deporting illegal aliens costs much less than paying for them to stay here and suck off the system for generations.

Yep

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

I would hazard a guess that deporting illegal aliens costs much less than paying for them to stay here and suck off the system for generations.

That would make sense on the surface. But most of the studies I've seen and heard with the exception of any of the hardcore right wing outlets say that the number of illegals working here and paying into the system contribute more in taxes than what is spent on illegals in social programs. I lived in Chicago for a couple of years, and married a Lithuanian (who already had a green card when I met her, and spent about 12K doing it the right way with an attorney through the INS) from there. The number of immigrants there is almost incomprehensible. The only city in the world with more Polish people than Chicago is Warsaw. And the most common means of immigrating here is student Visa's. And guess what? Most of the Mexicans that I talked to were Legal. The majority of the Ilegals I met were white, european immigrants who came here to go to school. They had jobs, their own health insurance, ran large companies that generated huge revenues and paid a ton in taxes. And most of their long term plans were to go back to the country they came from upon retirement, which leaves little to no cost to our government for them to be here. As a matter of fact they created a lot of jobs and hired a lot of employees who payed taxes. There's about 12 million people in the Chicago Metro area, and they taxes they pay there are triple what ours are. No one complains about illegals when times are good, everyone is making money, and they come to do the "Jobs that americans don't want". When the economy turns south, we start complaining. Go figure.

 

[muleskinner]

The majority of the Ilegals I met were white, european immigrants who came here to go to school. They had jobs, their own health insurance, ran large companies that generated huge revenues and paid a ton in taxes. And most of their long term plans were to go back to the country they came from upon retirement, which leaves little to no cost to our government for them to be here. As a matter of fact they created a lot of jobs and hired a lot of employees who payed taxes.

Can you really run a large company without being a citizen? No papers whatsoever? What taxes do you file? What do you put for a SSN? I can see a taco cart or day laborer but not someone running a large company.

Why did it cost so much for your wife? The Mexican I talked to said it was a pretty simple, straight forward deal. Is your wife happier now? How does she feel about illegals who don't contribute anything to society?

I guess the bottom line is-

Why not learn the language and become a citizen? If you are going to pay taxes and everything why not?

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

Yes, you can get a ssn as a student with a work visa. Then you just stay when your visa expires and your good. The majority of the cost for my wife were attorney's fee's. Our INS office here is really easy and simple. With no lawyer in Chicago it was a 6 month wait, and if you mess up the paperwork you get bumped for another 6 months or so, then there are no guarantees. If you hire a lawyer, they get in in a matter of weeks, take care of the paperwork and your done in 6 months. This was all pre 9-11, so I don't know how much worse it is now. But in 1999 when my wife did it, she didn't want to be here illegally, but most people chose not to go through the hassle and or expense because the cost was too great. Utah has an extremely small proportion of immigrants compared to the rest of the country.
And by the way, why bother getting citizenship if your objective is to move back to your birth country when you retire anyway? and these people are happy to pay the taxes. they consider it the cost of doing business here.

Look, the crime of living here illegally is the same as a speeding ticket for less than 20mph over the limit. Not exactly an imprison-able offense.

And I'm not saying that our system isn't broken, I think it needs help in multiple ways. But pushing everyone further right or left isn't going to help.

 

[jackjoh]

JKC, I am sorry Jack but I have to ask what books, papers, TV, have you been using to come up with your information. This is not a slam just want to know your sources as they seem different. We can all agree that the system is broke, 6 months and 300 to 400 dollars is cheap and reasonable, there should be a limitation on how long someone stays here before becoming a citizen, all aliens should learn english if they are going to stay here, there should be an enforceable law about hiring illegals, there should be a short time worker permit, and baby citizenship was never meant to be legal.

 

[Caleb]

Sorry, but 6 months is no where near accurate. My sis-in-law has been going through the process for YEARS. She's never had any paperwork or anything rejected...it just takes time. She's here 100% legally, but is not yet a citizen (marriage no longer makes you a citizen either).

 

[jackjoh]

Sorry, but 6 months is no where near accurate. My sis-in-law has been going through the process for YEARS. She's never had any paperwork or anything rejected...it just takes time. She's here 100% legally, but is not yet a citizen (marriage no longer makes you a citizen either).

Evidently I need to learn more.

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

I listen to a lot of KSL and NPR. I podcast every thing I can, I love politics. As for a resource to verify what I've heard, I love factcheck.org. Alot of what I wrote in this thread is just personal experience with my wife's friends in Chicago.

 

[jackjoh]

Did a little checking for 20 minutes and found the following. Have to be 18 yrs old; resident for 5 years unless married to US citizen then 3 years; over one half of that time must have been in the US at same address; have basic skills in english, history and government. (I wonder how many high school graduates would qualify?) After qualifying it then takes approximately 6 to 18 months to to get through the paper work system. See below.

Getting Photographed and submitting your application <H3>

</H3>

• Complete your application to become an American citizen using the USCitizenship.info system
• Get two photographs of yourself taken
• Collect all the documents described in the instructions given to you by our system. The more complete they are, the more smoothly the naturalization process will go.

Getting Fingerprinted

• Receive an appointment letter from U.S. of Citizenship and Immigration Services (formerly known as the INS)
• Go to the fingerprinting location
• Get your fingerprints taken
• Mail additional documents if U.S. of Citizenship and Immigration Services (formerly known as the INS) requests them
• Wait for U.S. of Citizenship and Immigration Services (formerly known as the INS) to schedule your interview

Being Interviewed

• Receive an appointment for your interview from the U.S. of Citizenship and Immigration Services (formerly known as the INS)
• Go to your local office at the specified time
• Bring identification and provide additional documents if U.S. of Citizenship and Immigration Services (formerly known as the INS) requests them
• Answer questions about your application and background
• Take the English and civics tests (You will receive 100 FREE sample questions with answers when you purchase our service!)
• Receive a decision

Taking the Oath

• Receive a ceremony date from the U.S. of Citizenship and Immigration Services (formerly known as the INS)
• Check in at the ceremony
• Return your permanent resident card
• Answer questions about what you have done since your interview
• Take the naturalization oath
• Receive your Certificate of Naturalization