So, gas people....anyone thinking about ethanol?

[Brett]

I've been reading into this a bit....just wondering if anyone has converted their gas motor to run on a mix of this yet? I know that some newer vehicles have the option to run a mix of E85 and gasoline.....

Any good or bad things that you all know of? Might be worth it with the way gas prices are.

 

[1993yj]

I read an article today about Indy cars switching over to it next year, and GM trying to talk NASCAR into it as well. In that article it stated that you could convert a car to run ethanol for about $200, but I dont know how accurate that is. My biggest question would be what places around here sell it, and what about wheelin in Moab? Any places down there have it?

 

[Brett]

My biggest question would be what places around here sell it, and what about wheelin in Moab? Any places down there have it?

That'd be my concern, too. If I could do it, where could I fuel up.....guess I've got more things to look into. Plus, if it's only around 200 dollars....that's not too bad. Wonder how much fuel system would handle it

 

[DOSS]

I looked into it a bit.. Most E85 engines can switch back and forth between Gas and E85 (assuming that you are running EFI so that your MAFS's can regulate everything for you). I haven't found many places that sell E85 but it is running about the same price right now maybe if more people used it it would get cheaper? My subaru will not run it and Subaru says running E85 will void my warranty.. I have thought about playing around with it in the jeep. I also saw some crackpot thing about increasing MPG by using 100% acetone.. maybe someone here has actualy tried that and knows?

 

[Skylinerider]

Just saw Mythbusters test out the acetone. It actually decreased the MPG of the vehicle.

 

[sinwagn]

Their is a station on main in Clearfield that sells it on pump, at least that is what I was told.

As far as converting, you can search under "flex fuel" and find all sorts of crap.. If your truck is five years old or less you can also check with the manufactures web site to check your vin to see if it already been equipped.
If you have a Chevy and it's anything bigger then a 5.3 don't bother looking!!!

 

[Spork]

I thought ethanol was more corrosive so you basically have to have components designed for it.
Couple links
http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id1.html

Q. How corrosive is ethanol to fuel system parts and how have you addressed this problem?

A. Ethanol is somewhat corrosive to certain rubber and cork materials found in older cars with carburetors. But new cars built in the past ten years are made with new materials that are unaffected by ethanol, since it is now found in over 30% of the gasoline we buy. Look at my page on making your own E85. Of, if you start with an old car, take the carbuerator apart and soak various parts in some white lighting for a few days. Look for signs of deterioration and replace what you have to.

another:
http://www.easybreathers.org/explore/transportationtech/ethanol.html

Although ethanol is harmful to organisms, it rapidly biodegrades in surface water, groundwater, and soil, thus rendering it harmless. Because ethanol can be corrosive to some metals and damaging to rubbers (gaskets and seals), fuel-storage tanks and dispensing equipment must be corrosion and damage resistant. Ethanol has a low vapor pressure and a broad range of flammability. Ethanol burns in air with a visible blue flame.

 

[RockMonkey]

What about power? If I wanted to convert my already-lacking-power TJ 4 cylinder, would I lose precious ponies? Is the e85 cheaper?

 

[Caleb]

What about power? If I wanted to convert my already-lacking-power TJ 4 cylinder, would I lose precious ponies? Is the e85 cheaper?

well according to Iowa (found it on google ) it has an octane rating of 100-105, I'd think you wouldn't loose any power.

I haven't read or seen anywhere that says it's cheaper Is it supposed to be? If not then there really is no benefit of the extra cost of the conversion.

 

[waynehartwig]

Isn't ethanol made from corn? If so, where are they going to get enough corn to make it for the world - or even the USA. Farmers are a dying bread, and more and more of them file bankruptcy every year because it's difficult to make ends meet. As it is, the government suppliments their income so they don't go into the hole even more. Plus, the more housing that goes in, the more farm land that is lost. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if ethanol is a corn by product, then there is no reason to go this way. If the market goes taht way, then there won't be enough corn to go around, just like there is not enough oil.

Another question/statement. I've heard that part of the reason gas prices are high, is because of the scarcity of ethanol as it is.

With just those two reasons, why would this even be a viable source of fuel for our cars - on a large scale?

 

[bobmed]

go to www.e85fuel.com and they have the info on ethanol.
I have a 2000 Ranger that is flex fuel and wil run on 0-85%
alcahol.
there are 4 stations in the state of Utah and about 500
nationwide but chevy is starting to push a little.
On mine the computer adjusts for the change and a sensor in the fuel system tells what fuel is running, also the fuel system has some different components for the E85. I think it does damage rubber.
If I run all E85 I get 2-3 MPG less than with gasoline.
It used to be .10 cents more per gallon but I have'nt
checked since last year.

 

[scoutabout]

Yeah, ethanol isn't mainstream right now, so the supply of it is also short. However, if it became more widely used then it would be economically viable, and the price wouldn't be connected to all the zany factors affecting oil and gas.

As for being able to produce enough ethanol, it wouldn't be a problem if there was a big enough market for it. The U.S. has enough farmland and growing capacity to feed the entire world several times over. It's economics. The price of farm products is already grossly deflated thanks to the subsidies. There's not enough money in farming, and there's a huge annual investment involved in operating a big farm.

 

[waynehartwig]

Yeah, ethanol isn't mainstream right now, so the supply of it is also short. However, if it became more widely used then it would be economically viable, and the price wouldn't be connected to all the zany factors affecting oil and gas.

As for being able to produce enough ethanol, it wouldn't be a problem if there was a big enough market for it. The U.S. has enough farmland and growing capacity to feed the entire world several times over. It's economics. The price of farm products is already grossly deflated thanks to the subsidies. There's not enough money in farming, and there's a huge annual investment involved in operating a big farm.

To grow corn, you need good land - there isn't that much good land left. Granted, it doesn't have to be as good of ground as tomatoes need, but it does have to be good ground still. Better ground than your lawn needs... It's all being bought up and used for housing. It also needs a mild climate. If it's too hot, then the flowers will burn up and won't produce an ear.

I'm saying there is no market for it now, and not enough available. What if the demend goes up. There still won't be enough available. If I'm correct, I think we are already buying corn from China? I think.

 

[78mitsu]

I saw some information the other day about an additive they are going to add to e-85 that will effectively reduce the corrosive effects and drying effects of the alcohol. People claim that ethanol is rated at 100+ octane. it is pure BS. with the lower vapor pressure and that it has such a small heat of combustion it reduces the amount of octane and can cause detonation in high compression engine. a common mistake is alcohol is alcohol. it isn't Methanol is what they use in the high hp alcohol cars - not Ethanol. it's true that it burns cleaner, but also produces more water when burned.

bottom line is if you don't have stainless or composite injectors it'll cause them to rust.

you will need to run stainless exhaust to keep it from rusting through in a couple years.

your oil change interval will be shortened to 2000 miles due to water vapor contamination.


Not that I'm opposed to alcahol, but it has a ways to go before it is really ready

 

[Greg]

Isn't ethanol made from corn? If so, where are they going to get enough corn to make it for the world - or even the USA....

You ever been to Indiana, Illinois, or Ohio? Miles, miles & miles of corn. I mean, you can drive for 3 hrs & think you haven't moved 50 feet. It's scary... :guilty:

 

[chadbuckner]

Yeah, Mythbusters is the bomb! I saw a rerun of that one the other day. Acetone made it alot worse! It went from like 25mpg to 17 mpg.They did manage to run a Mercedes diesel with no modifications to the engine, off of strained french fry oil. I know about bio diesel but this wasn't processed it was just strained and fed into the car! It still managed to get 30 mpg over the reg. diesels' 33 mpg.

 

[Greg]

Yeah, Mythbusters is the bomb! I saw a rerun of that one the other day. Acetone made it alot worse! It went from like 25mpg to 17 mpg.They did manage to run a Mercedes diesel with no modifications to the engine, off of strained french fry oil. I know about bio diesel but this wasn't processed it was just strained and fed into the car! It still managed to get 30 mpg over the reg. diesels' 33 mpg.

Waste Veggi Oil... how thick was it? Obvioulsy thin enough to work, but I bet it was pretty nasty!

 

[chadbuckner]

It Honestly looked like 10w-30 oil. I was in shock!

 

[wr250]

alcohol burns slower, and has less btu's than gasoline. therefore you need to up your compression and advance your ignition timing to take full advantage of alcohol (as well as more fuel).otherwise you will lose power. same thing happens if you run trick fuel gasoline (110 octane) in your (average) car, burn time is slower thus you lose more out the exhaust.

 

[wr250]

It Honestly looked like 10w-30 oil. I was in shock!

diesels have no problems running on Dello. guy i work with had a diesel with a blown turbo;it filled the intercooler with ~2 qts engine oil (dello).intercooler didnt get cleaned out, so when the rebuilt engine was fired up, it revved to 6,000+ RPM (until the valves were floating), for about 30 seconds, then tossed a rod.