SuperCrawl III at Rocky Mountain Raceway

[spencurai]

I guess I will chime in....

I haven't read throughly but I think I get the jist of what is going on...

1) Can people that compete "tread lightly" ?
sure. We all have that ability...but that is not the point is it?

2) Do competetion drivers tend to tread less lightly than others?
In my opinion and from my personal experience I can answer yes, they tend to be more aggressive on trails and cause more wear and tear on a trail. If you think you drive the same old way you always did, you are a fool and a liar. Competetion driving is at the peak of aggressiveness running your vehicle on the ragged edge. IF you are going to practice, you have to bring your trail riding into that type of driving. But do you have to drive Aggro all the time? no. But tendencies are towards competetion style driving. Don't deny it.

3) Bobdog makes a great point. People emulate the vehicles they see on the cutting edge of 4x4 technology. They want to have what comp drivers have so they build bigger and stronger and more powerful. Searching for more difficult terrain to use your new and improved super vehicle is a natural progression...digression....whatever...you do it, we all do it so supranger...get a clue before you get bashed with the clue-by-4 !!

There is a balance in offroading between unprepared vehicles, purpose built trail rigs, and competetion vehicles. Somewhere in there you find a vehicle that is the least impactive on trails. Unprepped vehicles are argueably the most destructive. Competetion vehicles are like a broad-sword, they can have excellent precision but can also be used in an extremely destructive and non "tread lightly" way.

In the end, it is in the mind of the driver. If you drive your comp rig like a maniac at the comps but have enough common sense to drive sane on the trails, you are what this world needs. It is not the tendency I have seen personally. Comp rig drivers tend to be more aggressive on trails seeking new situations to hone their skills and tune their rigs. This is basic stuff here people.

 

[Todd Adams]

If you look at the NASCAR fan base, I know these analogies are overused but you just don’t see these fans racing down the freeway at every opportunity.

QUOTE]

If you do not see that Competitive Rockcrawling has affected the way some people drive on the trail you have blinders on. Trail rigs that will never compete are being built better (a great thing in my opinion) and new chalenge obstacles have appeared on milder trails in moab as just one example (a really bad thing in my opinion). You need to realize that many have more money than experience and common sense, and can not make the distinction between what they see at a comp, a TV brodcast of a comp, or a magazine write up. Proving a link to comps would be imposibile, but common sense tells me there is a conection.
I am not against comps and would love to see some closer to SLC, I just don't see how the negative impacts can be denyed.

I was speaking in generalities and there are always a few that have little common sense. As long as new trails or obstacles are created in areas that allow it, I see no problem, in fact I encourage it. How does one know where this is acceptable? This is an easy question to answer but very hard for most to deal with. The answer is to work with our public land managers and find out where we can create new trails and then have them document these routes. This is how Constrictor, Cat Canyon, Chain Saw, New Helderado to name a few, were created legally. Join the groups that have been responsible be active and stay informed.

The days of creating new trails or even obstacles on existing trails in the Moab are over except on private land. There is a new BLM ruling that will do away with “open” areas everywhere on BLM land in the near future. This will mean no new trails anywhere on BLM land and any trail that has not been documented will be closed.

As I was loading our Jeep back on to the trailer out at 5 mile the other day I was disturbed by a number of buggies that had just showed up to unload. I was not disturbed by the fact they were going up to play at Constrictor because they were in the right area to do so. What I was disturbed about was that more and more of these rigs are showing up with no intentions of ever being used in competition. It is just that I am suspicious of anyone that builds a rig like the ones I saw being unloaded that were not intended to be used in competition. On the other hand I have no idea what they though of us loading up an obviously sponsored competition rig and what had we been doing. Land Managers are even more suspicious especially when they see us in more sensitive areas than 5 mile. Abuse by one reflects on us all.

I too have many of your concerns and the only way we are going to keep what we have is through peer pressure. Know before you go what you can and cannot do on public land. Never be confrontational just explain to someone no following the rules that they have the potential to close this area if they continue with their unacceptable behavior. If they decide to ignore you, take pictures or video then turn it to the land managers responsible for the area. I guess the bottom line is to not judge someone by what he is driving but by his behavior.

 

[I Lean]

I guess I will chime in....

I haven't read throughly but I think I get the jist of what is going on...

1) Can people that compete "tread lightly" ?
sure. We all have that ability...but that is not the point is it?

2) Do competetion drivers tend to tread less lightly than others?
In my opinion and from my personal experience I can answer yes, they tend to be more aggressive on trails and cause more wear and tear on a trail. If you think you drive the same old way you always did, you are a fool and a liar. Competetion driving is at the peak of aggressiveness running your vehicle on the ragged edge. IF you are going to practice, you have to bring your trail riding into that type of driving. But do you have to drive Aggro all the time? no. But tendencies are towards competetion style driving. Don't deny it.

3) Bobdog makes a great point. People emulate the vehicles they see on the cutting edge of 4x4 technology. They want to have what comp drivers have so they build bigger and stronger and more powerful. Searching for more difficult terrain to use your new and improved super vehicle is a natural progression...digression....whatever...you do it, we all do it so supranger...get a clue before you get bashed with the clue-by-4 !!

There is a balance in offroading between unprepared vehicles, purpose built trail rigs, and competetion vehicles. Somewhere in there you find a vehicle that is the least impactive on trails. Unprepped vehicles are argueably the most destructive. Competetion vehicles are like a broad-sword, they can have excellent precision but can also be used in an extremely destructive and non "tread lightly" way.

In the end, it is in the mind of the driver. If you drive your comp rig like a maniac at the comps but have enough common sense to drive sane on the trails, you are what this world needs. It is not the tendency I have seen personally. Comp rig drivers tend to be more aggressive on trails seeking new situations to hone their skills and tune their rigs. This is basic stuff here people.

Some of that CAN be correct, depending on the person. Driving aggressively is usually NOT the most effective way to compete. It does put on a better "show" for the cameras, but the winners are the ones who are careful and deliberate, usually. Therefore driving on the trail in "competition mode" would mean being careful and slow, as well.

 

[spencurai]

Some of that CAN be correct, depending on the person. Driving aggressively is usually NOT the most effective way to compete. It does put on a better "show" for the cameras, but the winners are the ones who are careful and deliberate, usually. Therefore driving on the trail in "competition mode" would mean being careful and slow, as well.

OK...well let me cite some examples and you be the judge...

Upper helldorado waterfall...before competetions NOBODY drove that. Aggresiveness has skyrocketed.

Constrictor, before comps nobody would have even tried to make that a trail!! let alone try to make eagles nest unassisted??!!??

I am just saying that competetion bleeds over onto the trail rides.

Aggressive driving happens, and it is becoming more and more prevelant.

 

[SuperRanger]

Well I am pretty much done with this arguement. It still really pisses me off how some people are so fast to label other people.

I guess you guys have a different crowd and different trails up there. Where I wheel there are two formats:

1) TRAIL

2) OHV AREA

On trails, we all drive on the trail.

OHV areas are great places to try new climbs, try new decents, try different approaches. Let me remind you that these are legal actions in approved areas on routes condoned by the BLM.

Spencurai - Can't you see that you are labeling people? Why are throwing the "comp guy" label on people you see driving aggresively? It is the person behind the wheel making the decision. You should not make generalizations based on the type of vehicle. It is the same as saying - In my opinion black guys drive more aggresively - simply because you saw a guy that you thought was black driving harsh.

People were driving aggresively long before competitions. I have videos to prove it. What about competitive mud bogging? Monster trucks? How about Tough Truck Comps or desert racing? Are they to to blame for our trails getting damaged?

I can argue just as hard that it is the guys in the stock vehicles that are ruining our trails because they go on trails that are to hard, stack rocks, and make bypasses. They break, spill fluid, and clog the trail. On the other hand, I can drive my "comp rig" right through without spinning a tire or dislodging a rock.

Competitive rockcrawling has as much to do with agility, teamwork, and careful tire placement as it does with aggresiveness. In a comp there are maybe 4 climbs that require heavy throttle - the rest is agility and teamwork.

You are suggesting that we censor our activities so the general public does not emulate our actions? Is it wrong for a guy to build up a rig to emulate a comp rig? NO. If he damages the trail then he is as guilty as anyone.

Why do yo think that us "comp guys" drive like mainacs at competitions? I have seen several drivers do it, most likely because they are nervous or under pressure, or because they are making a show. Does Tracy Jordon or Jason Paule or Dean Bulloch drive like a maniac? No. They are calm and controlled. The more professional we can make the sport the more of this you will see.

Once again I am insulted by being placed in a catagory of "people more likely to not Tread Lightly". In my opinion, the only people that belong in this category are those that are uninformed about our battle.

 

[CHOPS]

For those of you who choose to label "competitors" as people who do not "Tread Lightly" you are making a huge mistake. As Superanger has pointed out it's a generalization, just like saying women can drive as well as men. It's just not true. By excluding the competitions you are loosing a huge voice in the land use fight. We have the ability to get our word out to more than just fellow trail users. We are active in the fight to preserve trails and stop abuse. We are all fighting for the same thing, fighting amongst the ranks only results in dissent. The question that was asked was a loaded question intended to invoke a response to prove a generalization. Numerous times my brother (Superanger) and I have confronted people abusing the trail. We do this for the betterment of the sport, not because we are also competitors. Our life revolves around 4 wheels (and our wives ), we work hard to maintain a good image for the sport.

See you all in St. George!

Roger

 

[EZRhino]

As Superanger has pointed out it's a generalization, just like saying women can drive as well as men. It's just not true.
Roger

You're right, women can't drive as well as men!! Hahahahaha

So your first post is to come to your brother's rescue, aye?

EZ

 

[SuperRanger]

You're right, women can't drive as well as men!! Hahahahaha

So your first post is to come to your brother's rescue, aye?

EZ

Pretty hard to have serious conversation around here with comments like this.

 

[EZRhino]

I thought you said you were finished with this arguement? I'm just trying to reinforce that statement. You're right; enough has been said.

EZ

 

[CHOPS]

You're right, women can't drive as well as men!! Hahahahaha

So your first post is to come to your brother's rescue, aye?

EZ

You have to be kidding me.. Brother's rescue?? Where do you get that from? My comments are not intended to defend him; he can do that on his own. I jumped in to defend rockcrawling competitiors in general. If you want to attack me for that fine. I won't participate in personal attacks. Just trying to defend my right to use public land in a responsible manner.

 

[PierCed_3]

Sooo... when does this happen?? Has it happened? The UROC at RMR event? Date?

 

[Hickey]

It still really pisses me off how some people are so fast to label other people.

I find this ironic.

 

[BlackSheep]

Sooo... when does this happen?? Has it happened? The UROC at RMR event? Date?

check www.uroc.com. I think it is the weekend of Oct 14-16.

 

[pokeyYJ]

Wow! this has been an interesting read, so far.

Here is how I look at it (if anyone cares),

Is the comp at RMR a good thing? I think that we will have to wait until its over to see, we need to get a feel for what kind of taste it leaves in our mouths, good or bad.

Am I excited to see somebody (individual or group) try something out of the norm? YES! Experiementation is a good thing and could led to new ideas. Maybe the man made comp will be a bust, but I bet that it better prepares the event organizers for large crowds at readily accesable arena's.

Does competative rock crawling bleed down into recreational 4 wheeling?
I believe yes it does, and this is from my own personal experience. When I had my last Jeep, I would watch movies from comps and read all the magazine articles about comps, and dream of building my Jeep to be able to compete. This lead me to try trails and obstacles that I wasn't prepared for, vehicular or mentally. Always pushing myself to the limits because that is/was cool. I quicky however, found this to be really expensive. Now maybe this is an isolated case, but I would bet that it is not. Young kids, mostly male because lets face it, this sport appeals to more males than female, buys a Jeep, Yota, Sami, whatever, goes wheelin a few times, buys a couple of comp videos and thinks, "Yeah, that looks like fun, maybe I should try it." But financial restraints keeps him/her from buying a tow rig, trailer, and comp buggy, so he/she uses the next best and most readily available thing. Don't think that it happens this way? I know at least three guys, myself included that got started 4 wheeling this way.

 

[ace]

I drive by there twice a day and would mention that I have seen no construction at this venue. My hopes are not high for this event.

Maybe something like this?

 

[Caleb]

I drive by there twice a day and would mention that I have seen no construction at this venue. My hopes are not high for this event.

Maybe something like this?

yep, me too...atleast twice a day I drive by there and have yet to see any signs of construction. the only thing is in the maps it lookslike the courses will be at the end of the strips and you can;t really see that area too well from 201, but I think you would be able to see some type of back hoes/tractor/cat type machinery...I too am loosing hope as the event is only a month away now... :sick:

 

[cruiseroutfit]

They are ~ 5 weeks away and still need to move at least 1000 truckloads of dirt, fill, etc in... and then arrange them into obstacles. As of now, they have only moved in about 20 loads...

AFAIK they still don't have a contractor lined up to build... but one is in the works...

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

I drove through there Fri morning, pulled in down to the end of the Drag strip, Didn't see any signs of construction at all.

 

[Caleb]

AFAIK they still don't have a contractor lined up to build... but one is in the works...

so is this the announcement that Cruiser Outfitters is now going to be doing "landscaping" too

 

[cruiseroutfit]

so is this the announcement that Cruiser Outfitters is now going to be doing "landscaping" too

Oh heavens no... I'm not putting a finger on that train-wreck... they are going to be under a SUPER tight time frame and $$$ budget... not sure if it is gonna fly or not...

I will let him chime in...