The backpacking thread

[sixstringsteve]

So how was it? Pics?

I couldn't find anyone to go with, and I didn't feel like doing it solo. Plus the inversion was really bad and I didn't want to be sucking in all that brown air for hours. So I spent the day sucking in the brown air around my house, getting the miata ready for summer.

 

[thefirstzukman]

Just received my new Klimit Pillow X, had to break out the sleeping pad and quilt and take a nap during my lunch break! The pillow is great and It weighted 2.1oz. in the little stuff sack

 

[blznnp]

What are your guys's opinions on external vs internal frames? I am thinking I need a new one and have only had one and it's an external, been great to me for the last 14 years but it's showing signs of needed replaced. I like the fact that I can have the tent,bag,pad outside the pack, but never used a internal.

 

[ozzy702]

What are your guys's opinions on external vs internal frames? I am thinking I need a new one and have only had one and it's an external, been great to me for the last 14 years but it's showing signs of needed replaced. I like the fact that I can have the tent,bag,pad outside the pack, but never used a internal.

My experience has been that really just depends on what you're doing. A good external frame pack for hunting and hauling a ton of gear really makes sense. On the other hand if you don't need to haul much weight on your back (I've hauled less and less every year and loving the freedom) then a lightweight internal pack really feels great on your back and moves well with your body. Now days you can pickup very durable, comfortable internal framed packs that can still carry 25-35lbs well in the 2-3lbs range and packs that will carry 15-20lbs well in the sub 2lbs range. If you move into exotic fabrics like cuben you can get those numbers down about a pound or so with the same weight carrying capacity. The one caveat is they aren't as durable (abrasion kills cuben) and they are more expensive.

What are your needs? What kind of backpacking do you do or want to do? How much weight does your gear weigh? How much space do you need for your gear? Are you willing/able to purchase new gear that weighs less and/or takes up less space?

Lots of factors to consider.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I understand where you're coming from, I used to be in the same boat. I'm excited to hear Davy's response, since he spent so much time selling packs.

Most people use internal frame packs these days, but that alone doesn't mean it's the best solution for you. In my mind, external frame packs have pros and cons to weigh.

External frame pros:

- they typically have lots of great pockets for organization (though many internal frame packs do this too)
- ability to carry insanely heavy loads (Pro? Con?)
- typically quite durable. They take a beating and last a long time (though many internal frame packs have this quality too)
- the ability to have your big items outside of the pack (Pro? Con?)
- ability to haul tons of gear (Pro? Con?)


External frame cons:

- weight. External frame packs are often a bit heavier than their internal frame counterpart (but not always)
- Bulky. They whack a lot of braches and snag on things since they're so big
- having to carry big items outside the pack (pro? con?)
- selection/availability. There simply aren't a ton of external frame packs to choose from these days.

I now use an internal-frame pack. In my opinion, external frame packs get you in the habit of lashing on all sorts of huge stuff: sleeping bags, sleeping pads, tents, etc. This allows you to carry heavy and bulky loads long distances, but do you really need to be carrying heavy, bulky loads in the first place? If you can break that mentality, an internal frame pack can be great. If you have a huge sleeping pad and a huge tent, it's going to take up over half of your pack with an internal frame pack. It took some paradigm shifts to make the change, but now I don't miss my old external pack.

I can think of a few reasons why I prefer my internal pack over my old jansport external-frame pack (which I loved when I had it)

Internal frame pros:

- typically lighter (though some internal frame packs are super heavy)
- it rides much better on my back, and the hip-belt doesn't dig into my hips. It rides like a sloth hanging onto my back, instead of a 3x4' piece of plywood lashed to my back, whacking branches all along the trail.
- it keeps my expensive items protected from the elements inside my pack. I don't want my sleeping bag hanging off the bottom of my pack externally. It's more prone to getting soaked, getting rips, stains, encounters with sticks, stones, water, etc.


Internal frame cons:

- if you have huge and heavy gear (sleeping bag, pad, tent, etc), some internal frame packs make it awfully difficult to fit your bag into your pack.
- max weight capacity is lower (this could be a good thing or a bad thing)
- no room for your bulky gear. Putting your huge sleeping bag in and out of a tiny pocket at the bottom can be a major chore. Pick an internal pack with big, easy-access pockets, or get a nice tiny sleeping bag (which solves lots of other issues too).



Here are some more ideas on the subject:
http://www.backpacker.com/gear/ask_kristin/335

Hope that helps.

 

[sixstringsteve]

The one caveat is they aren't as durable (abrasion kills cuben) and they are more expensive.

In my mind, the thickness of the cuben fiber makes a huge difference on how sturdy it is. My thinny thin cuben is not super tough. But my items made of thick cuben (over 1.0) are super beefy, and more abrasion-resistant than most packs. You're spot on about the price for the weight though, it's priced like it's woven with gold. All that being said, my favorite piece of gear is my cuben backpack. If I had to sell everything except one item, that's the item I'd hang onto (mainly because it fits my body so well). Someone else may absolutely hate it.

 

[ozzy702]

I really can't wait for this spring and summer to get out and about. Still trying to figure out how we'll do overnighters with the kids. I may have to find someone that is good at sewing to modify my wife's baby carrier so it can carry a small amount of gear.

If anyone is looking for solid backpacks I popped a few up for sale.

http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.ph...regory-Backpacks-for-sale&p=964622#post964622

 

[sixstringsteve]

I really can't wait for this spring and summer to get out and about. Still trying to figure out how we'll do overnighters with the kids.

This guy should give you some hope:
http://backcountrypost.com/forum/threads/kiddie-canyoneering-cassidy-arch-canyon.2804/#post-32444


My plan is to do a lot of car camping once I have kids, then slowly transition them to backpacking.

 

[MattL]

This guy should give you some hope:
http://backcountrypost.com/forum/threads/kiddie-canyoneering-cassidy-arch-canyon.2804/#post-32444


My plan is to do a lot of car camping once I have kids, then slowly transition them to backpacking.

Wow... awesome read Steve. I too am about the car camping and have some planned for this year already. I am not one for canyoneering, but I am one for getting kids outside into the great outdoors!

 

[ozzy702]

This guy should give you some hope:
http://backcountrypost.com/forum/threads/kiddie-canyoneering-cassidy-arch-canyon.2804/#post-32444


My plan is to do a lot of car camping once I have kids, then slowly transition them to backpacking.

Dude! Awesome post! Those kids are going to grow up right with such an awesome dad.

My biggest problem logistically is how do we carry all the gear we'd need for an overnighter. Day trips are no problem. We have a one month old and an 18 month old so we're stuck with baby carriers that don't have much room for backpacking gear. Once my daughter is older we will probably pick up another large carrier that can hold a bit of gear (we have one for my son but will be using a soft pack for my daughter for awhile), and that may just about do it.

I have fond memories of doing outdoors stuff with my family as a kid but also remember the horror of wearing 100% cotton in winter campouts and being soaked, being colder than I have ever been in my life, carrying 35lbs on my back when I weighed 100lbs and all the other craziness that came from my parents loving the outdoors but being poor and having no clue how to prepare with the proper gear for the activity. I want to make sure my kids are safe (we weren't always) and that they have more opportunities to be outdoors than I had as a kid.

 

[sixstringsteve]

You are probably going to have to wait 'till the kids can hike on their own before you can do much backpacking with them. I'd stick to lots of car camping with day hikes. It seems like you have done a ton of research on gear, so I wouldn't be worried about repeating your parents' mistakes. You don't have to be hardcore to enjoy the outdoors, you can do tons of camping from your car to instill that love in your kids.


I'd hit up Mesha. He has a great balance with pushing his kids to their limit, but not going beyond it.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Wow... awesome read Steve.

That dude is a stud. I don't expect to canyoneer with my toddlers (I am not even comfortable enough doing it myself), but that just goes to show that kids can be included in the outdoors. I guess it's my counter-argument to my friends who have kids and say "We can't go car-caming, we have kids." If that guy can rappel with them, then I expect to be able to go car-camping with my kids regularly. Kids are meant for the outdoors. I'm convinced they need to be taught to dislike camping, it's not a conclusion they come to on their own.

 

[ozzy702]

Went on a five mile round trip overnighter. It was fun and a big learning experience for everyone, myself included. The wind was absolutely crazy with gusts easily in the 40's around 4 inches of snow and temps in the high 20's. I was toasty warm all night but we had a few guys that ended up being really cold because they weren't prepared well despite doing my best to make sure that wasn't the case.

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[Rock Taco]

Where did you go? It doesn't look windy in your pics.

 

[ozzy702]

Where did you go? It doesn't look windy in your pics.

Above Dog lake in Big Cottonwood Canyon around 9000ft. It wasn't windy in the pics, storm rolled in about 9pm and we headed into our shelters to hunker down for the night. We were camped on an exposed ridge and according to the nearest noaa station (down at 7300ft) the highest gust recorded was 46mph, so certainly a bit windy up where we were. I made the mistake of drinking way too much hot chocolate and had to get up to pee three times in driving snow and general nastiness. I'd wait until things calmed down a bit (you could hear it coming) and then run outside really quickly. The wind was so strong that the mountains would roar as a big gust would come through, it was pretty awesome.

Thankfully nobody slept in the MH drifter since it ended up having a quarter inch of snow inside and would have been a windy, miserable shelter in those conditions. The Hilleberg was awesome and lived up to it's reputation as a solid 4-season shelter. The SMC snow stakes I used rocked and held strong even with really crappy snow.

The snow cave wasn't built super well but got them through the night. The entrance was far too large and was above the floor of the cave so it didn't trap heat well. They also had a few inches of snow on their feet which froze them out pretty good half way through the night. One of the guys in the snow cave had his mattress spring a leak and ended up sleeping on the ground, he had a miserable night between the wet bag and no insulation from the snow. Next time he will listen to me and use a foam pad underneath his inflatable. I also offered to let him use a bivy which would of at least kept him dry but he refused telling me that he'd snow camped dozens of times growing in Idaho and wasn't worried.

To his credit he didn't complain at all and we all had fun and he's up for another trip in the future. Thankfully by the morning the wind had finally died down a bunch and the snow had stopped so we packed things up and got off the mountain by about 10am.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Sweet story + pics.

 

[MattL]

I had to look up the Hilleberg and man they are spendy. Looks like they have their act together and looks like a very high quality product. Did you buy the tent local?

 

[sixstringsteve]

A hilleberg is on my short list of future tents. Look at it this way, they're still cheaper than a rooftop tent, and much more portable.

 

[ozzy702]

I had to look up the Hilleberg and man they are spendy. Looks like they have their act together and looks like a very high quality product. Did you buy the tent local?

I picked it up from a guy that purchased it new but found that it was bigger than he wanted. I picked it up about 25% off. Hilleberg tents have increased in price 10% every year that I have been drooling over them and I couldn't pass up the opportunity and don't regret the purchase one bit. It's the perfect winter tent and was rock solid all night.

They are built TOUGH and as a result are heavier than a standard 3-season tent. Dry setup is one of the nicest features in their lineup. They've been around forever and people use their products in the most severe and demanding conditions you can image without fail. One of the things that really drew me to them is the number of people that use them day in and day out year after year and the number of people that are still using their tents 20 years after purchasing them. It's a long term investment but one that in time pays off.

 

[thefirstzukman]

I need to get my 16-18 year old boys somewhere on this Wednesday night to talk about different packs and about how to pack them. Any suggestions on who would do this? Anyone here willing to do it?