The backpacking thread

[sixstringsteve]

make sure you're staking the vestibules out too, that is part of the ventilation system. If there's no chance of rain, I will leave the rain fly off.

After looking at that design, I can definitely see why condensation would be a problem. Even with the vents all the way open there's not a ton of ventilation.

 

[sixstringsteve]

check this out too:

[video=youtube;IEmJl9IpzWc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEmJl9IpzWc[/video]

 

[mesha]

I need some advice. I bought a MSR Ellixer 3 tent and after six nights in it I have decided I get Wayyy to much condensation on the inside of the rain fly. It stinks to break camp early and have a wet rainfly on the inside. IT has two vents which I usually forget to open. Will those make the difference or do I need to do something different? I must be a heavy breather.

I have always had 2-3 people inside.

Thanks

Condensation on your tent is going to happen as long as you have a layer to slow down the moisture as well as a temperature difference. The warm air rises from convection and hits the impermeable layer of rainfly. The rainfly is colder on than your tent is on the inside and causes the moist, warm air to condense. You and your 2 partners are exhaling a quart or so of water each night while you sleep. Your tent system is trying to deal with 3 quarts of water in 8 hours and it just can't handle it. This is the main reason I am strongly against using a tent for "warmth" or pulling your head under your sleeping bag for warmth. You are exposing your sleeping system to so much moisture. It can be dangerous in extended cold conditions. Your tent should keep you dry, not warm. If it is adding degrees of warmth then it will not have sufficient air movement to deal with condensation. If it is cold enough you can just shoe the dozen condensation off the fly when you pack it away, but it doesn't all come off and the fly never has a chance to dry out until you get home. Pulling your head in your sleeping bag puts hot warm air in the insulation. The moisture moves through the insulation of your bag and condenses on whatever layer happens to be the dew point for your sleeping bag. You then have wet insulation. Each night it gets worse and worse until you have POUNDS of water stuck in your insulation.

Some things that will help with condensation
-open up the rainfly doors on both sides of the tent.
-leave rainfly fully or partially off.
-use the bottom guy line points on your fly(you want your fly as far away from your tent as possible).
-instead of clipping the rainfly to the bottom of the tent stake it further away from your tent.
-pitch tent with most ventilated part of the fly facing prevailing wind.
-do not pitch in basins where air will "pool".
-the closer vegetation is the more moisture in the air.
-avoid soggy areas(nice soft grass is worse than a hard packed dirt for moisture).
-don't camp close to lakes or streams.
-don't bring wet items into the tent with you (wet socks or clothes for example).
-avoid cooking or eating in the tent.

See if switching up any of these habits makes a difference in your situation. If it is raining hard and you are sleeping 3 people in there you will not be able to do anything about the condensation. Use a towel to dry off the inside of the fly and pitch camp early that night to give it time to dry before you get in.

Nice tent by-the-way!

 

[ID Bronco]

Condensation on your tent is going to happen as long as you have a layer to slow down the moisture as well as a temperature difference. The warm air rises from convection and hits the impermeable layer of rainfly. The rainfly is colder on than your tent is on the inside and causes the moist, warm air to condense. You and your 2 partners are exhaling a quart or so of water each night while you sleep. Your tent system is trying to deal with 3 quarts of water in 8 hours and it just can't handle it. This is the main reason I am strongly against using a tent for "warmth" or pulling your head under your sleeping bag for warmth. You are exposing your sleeping system to so much moisture. It can be dangerous in extended cold conditions. Your tent should keep you dry, not warm. If it is adding degrees of warmth then it will not have sufficient air movement to deal with condensation. If it is cold enough you can just shoe the dozen condensation off the fly when you pack it away, but it doesn't all come off and the fly never has a chance to dry out until you get home. Pulling your head in your sleeping bag puts hot warm air in the insulation. The moisture moves through the insulation of your bag and condenses on whatever layer happens to be the dew point for your sleeping bag. You then have wet insulation. Each night it gets worse and worse until you have POUNDS of water stuck in your insulation.

Some things that will help with condensation
-open up the rainfly doors on both sides of the tent.
-leave rainfly fully or partially off.
-use the bottom guy line points on your fly(you want your fly as far away from your tent as possible).
-instead of clipping the rainfly to the bottom of the tent stake it further away from your tent.
-pitch tent with most ventilated part of the fly facing prevailing wind.
-do not pitch in basins where air will "pool".
-the closer vegetation is the more moisture in the air.
-avoid soggy areas(nice soft grass is worse than a hard packed dirt for moisture).
-don't camp close to lakes or streams.
-don't bring wet items into the tent with you (wet socks or clothes for example).
-avoid cooking or eating in the tent.

See if switching up any of these habits makes a difference in your situation. If it is raining hard and you are sleeping 3 people in there you will not be able to do anything about the condensation. Use a towel to dry off the inside of the fly and pitch camp early that night to give it time to dry before you get in.

Nice tent by-the-way!

Thanks, I liked the durability (less mesh, more fabric) because I will have kids in it every time I use it. I hope that doesn't bite me. Great advice! This last four days was a terrible test. We had rain, snow, sleet, ect. most of the time so condensation was not my main concern. I think as I implement these items we will be happy. I can always take a dish rag to wipe it off when I put it away.

I was excited to find out that after all the inclement weather we stayed dry in the tent. That was a huge relief to me. I now have confidence in the tent.

Thanks guys.

Scott

 

[ID Bronco]

So I have an update on the MSR Elixer 3 person.

This has become my favorite tent. I really like it! It has been great. The other night it was raining while I was setting it up and i realized setting it up with the mesh top in the rain sucked. I got the rainfly on quickly so it was ok but anyone have any tips on doing that?


My main question today is this: I acquired an older North Face Westwind, four season, two person tent that is about 13 years old. It is in excellent shape but I want to "refresh" it. I have watched a bunch of videos, but what are your thoughts on re-waterproofing it?

I am thinking of re-seamsealing all the seams on the fly and the tub on the tent. Then spraying it with a waterproofing agent (i forget the name that I bought). Is there any problem with washing it in the waterproofing stuff you can buy in a front loader or a top loader with no center agitator?

It is a sweet tent and may be fine but I want to have confidence in it.

I appreciate your input in advance.

Scott

 

[sixstringsteve]

Some tents allow you to pitch th Era in fly first, then pitch the mesh underneath it. I'm not familiar with your msr, but it might be an option.

Aquanet is a great seam sealer. I've heard of people diluting a silicone solution then spraying it all over the tent to seal it.

I think the stuff you throw in the washer is bogus and not very effective.

 

[jentzschman]

Planning a 9 day trip to Wind River range in Wyoming and I am in the process of preparing, gathering, and planning my food. I did a rough weigh in tonight and I am at ~1 lb 8 oz per day giving my 16 lbs 2 oz of food for 9 days.

This has been a bit of a process planning out food for that many days. After a lot of research, it seems like the sweet spot is 1.4 lbs PPPD (per person per day) Finding calorie dense foods is a little bit of a challenge as I am trying to create a variety of foods each day but ended up going a much simpler route I think:

• 2x Instant oatmeal packets + a pastry for breakfast each day.
• 2x medium tortillas + 2x Justins almond butter packets + trail mix for lunch each day (2 almond butter packet might be over kill and I might subtract one packet while still taking 2 tortillas to save a little more weight)
• 1x freeze dry dinner each day (I bought 2 serving pouches and plan on using one serving and repackaging each freeze dry meals into baggies. In addition, I am only taking one freeze dry pouch to reuse each for each dinner thus saving some weight)
• 4x snacks per day (mix and match of various bars and cookies)

All of this will be ~3k calories per day with should be spot on as far as enough energy each day, I hope.

With food and base weight, I will be ~28-30 lbs total which is not too bad I don't think.
I would love to get down to ~25-27 lbs total pack weight for a trip this long in the future, however, I know I would need to drastically changing my shelter and sleeping systems. Right now I have a solo tarp tent (notch model) and while it is much litter then my previous solo tent, I believe moving in the direction of a tarp shelter+waterproof bivy would save me close to 1 lb of weight alone.

Honestly, I think when I get back from this trip I am going to buy a tarp and bivy and begin the transition to a true UL shelter/sleeping system. Knowing how to pith a tarp in all weather conditions and in multiple configurations take a bit of practice and I want to start practicing for future trips.

 

[sixstringsteve]

that's a great weight for 9 days. I'm afraid I'll be closer to 40 lbs. You're always welcome to borrow my HMG tarp if you'd like.

 

[jentzschman]

What is your gear list you are taking? I think you could get it down more with you experience.

I would love to, however, I would want to have a bivy as well for the extra peace of mind in the case of major rain. Perhaps I could borrow it one day to practice rigging it so see if using a tarp is really a direction I want to go?

I do think I want to move into a cuben fiber shelter system. Only reason I bought my silnylon test was cost and the fact that at the time I did not think I could make the transition into a tarp shelter. (I still hold on to the old ways of a tent shelters and their comfort feelings)

Cuban fiber seems to offer better weight reduction, overall strength, as well as not absorbing water.

 

[ID Bronco]

So I am going on a three day trip up Slough Creek in Yellowstone in two weeks. I am responsible for me, my 16 year old and my 13 year old. I am starting to do a meal plan tonight. Any awesome ideas for good, light food would be appreciated. My bottle neck is my sleeping bags. They are warm, but not super light and fairly large. I really need to address this for the future, but have to deal with it now. There are no fires allowed there, so would you take one stove and extra fuel for the three of us, or would it be wise to take an extra super small stove as a back up? The preparer in me wants the backup, the wimp in me (or wiser part) wants to leave it home.

The main thing for me is my fishing gear will be relatively heavy, so I need to really look at everything else. Just thinking out loud (or quietly on the keyboard) to get my head around what I will need.

 

[ID Bronco]

Planning a 9 day trip to Wind River range in Wyoming and I am in the process of preparing, gathering, and planning my food. I did a rough weigh in tonight and I am at ~1 lb 8 oz per day giving my 16 lbs 2 oz of food for 9 days.

This has been a bit of a process planning out food for that many days. After a lot of research, it seems like the sweet spot is 1.4 lbs PPPD (per person per day) Finding calorie dense foods is a little bit of a challenge as I am trying to create a variety of foods each day but ended up going a much simpler route I think:

• 2x Instant oatmeal packets + a pastry for breakfast each day.
• 2x medium tortillas + 2x Justins almond butter packets + trail mix for lunch each day (2 almond butter packet might be over kill and I might subtract one packet while still taking 2 tortillas to save a little more weight)
• 1x freeze dry dinner each day (I bought 2 serving pouches and plan on using one serving and repackaging each freeze dry meals into baggies. In addition, I am only taking one freeze dry pouch to reuse each for each dinner thus saving some weight)
• 4x snacks per day (mix and match of various bars and cookies)

All of this will be ~3k calories per day with should be spot on as far as enough energy each day, I hope.

With food and base weight, I will be ~28-30 lbs total which is not too bad I don't think.
I would love to get down to ~25-27 lbs total pack weight for a trip this long in the future, however, I know I would need to drastically changing my shelter and sleeping systems. Right now I have a solo tarp tent (notch model) and while it is much litter then my previous solo tent, I believe moving in the direction of a tarp shelter+waterproof bivy would save me close to 1 lb of weight alone.

Honestly, I think when I get back from this trip I am going to buy a tarp and bivy and begin the transition to a true UL shelter/sleeping system. Knowing how to pith a tarp in all weather conditions and in multiple configurations take a bit of practice and I want to start practicing for future trips.

9 days is crazy to me as a novice. I don't know how you pack light enough for that long.

 

[sixstringsteve]

i say one stove and one fuel canister. That should be plenty for the 3 of you. If it goes out, you can eat cold mac n cheese. You'll survive.

Also, check out tenkara fishing rods for a super lightweight and simple backpacking fishing solution.

 

[DAA]

Yeah, I'd never dream of two stoves for three people. And would only carry one canister for my JetBoil for three people/three nights.

But if you really feel the need for backup, you could toss half a dozen esbit tabs in. Will add a few oz., so I wouldn't do it myself, but for just a few ounces to carry them, you would have a backup that could boil some water. You wouldn't even need a stove for purely backup, I've used them on a rock with small rocks to hold my cup above them before just to boil water for coffee or tea. But as far as it goes, an esbit stove weighs very little.

Esbit is messy and smelly though! You'll need a good sealable baggie to put a mug or pot in after it's been used with esbit.

For meals, I just go the expensive, non healthy and semi-stupid route and do store bought freeze dried. Mountain House and the like. Only taste good when you are hungry and sodium bombs from hell, but hard to beat for calories per weight and size. For in between meal snacks, I value calories per oz. over most anything else, so Chili Cheese Fritos and home made gorp (heavy on chocolate, nuts and dried mango). Some of the bars have good calories per oz. bang for the buck, so I carry some of them too, Lara bars being my favorite, but don't like the taste of them as much as Fritos and trail mix.

With my Son - who is 20 now, but I still try and spoil him, if he's on the trip I'll carry some more luxury type food items just for him. He likes those tuna packets and Ritz crackers, good salami and cheese, heck I have even carried a frying pan and frozen steaks in my pack to surprise him at dinner time before.

- DAA

 

[DAA]

BTW... After carrying Fritos in my pack for a couple days they always end up powder. Still taste just as good. But, Frito powder TOTALLY sexes up just about any freeze dried meal. I don't care what it is - I add some Frito powder to it. Makes them all taste better.

- DAA

 

[mesha]

• 2x Instant oatmeal packets + a pastry for breakfast each day.
• 2x medium tortillas + 2x Justins almond butter packets + trail mix for lunch each day (2 almond butter packet might be over kill and I might subtract one packet while still taking 2 tortillas to save a little more weight)
  
  Taking 2 almond butter packets and 1 tortilla will save you weight and get you more calories. Tortillas are not as calorie dense as the almond butter.

 

[Kevin B.]

I think the stuff you throw in the washer is bogus and not very effective.

I haven't tried it all, but the stuff I have tried on my raingear and parkas hasn't worked very well to bring them back to the same water resistance they had when they were new.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Dave, are you looking for a second son?

 

[DAA]

Dave, are you looking for a second son?

Ha-ha-ha! Now that you mention it, I AM getting a little bit antsy for grandkids. You're just a little bit too mature already though. I'm looking forward to having babies and youngsters I can spoil rotten and send away when they get too fussy .

- DAA

 

[sixstringsteve]

I'm too fussy already. Oh well, it was worth a shot.

 

[jentzschman]

• 2x Instant oatmeal packets + a pastry for breakfast each day.
• 2x medium tortillas + 2x Justins almond butter packets + trail mix for lunch each day (2 almond butter packet might be over kill and I might subtract one packet while still taking 2 tortillas to save a little more weight)
  
  Taking 2 almond butter packets and 1 tortilla will save you weight and get you more calories. Tortillas are not as calorie dense as the almond butter.

• 
  
  Good idea. I will adjust and give that a shot