The perfect vehicle situation for Utah...help me decide?!

[jeep-N-montero]

i really appreciate all the thoughtful comments and suggestions you guys have shared. I feel like most "which vehicle is best?" threads end up simply confirming everyone's pre-existing biases about their favorite rides, and the ones they think are pointless. This has been helpful for me - perhaps because I've been gently challenged in a few of my ideas, or perhaps because some points I hadn't thought about have been brought up - because I've been able to really examine myself and what I actually want.

I love the idea of building a cheap buggy. But it's not going to happen. I hate wrenching on crap (*GASP!!!*) unless it's regular maintenance, or straightforward.

I like the idea of having a samurai. They are crazy fun. But it was mentioned earlier on how terrible they are to drive, like anywhere, and I remembered why I sold mine. I didn't ride my dirtbike much until I quit trying to trailer it to the trails, and loaded it into the back of the truck every time. I just don't think I would like towing a rig every time I wanted to do a short ride. And again, it's a vehicle that usually requires a significant amount of mods and customization, and I could never figure out some if the wiring crap from the 1.6 swap the PO did in his garage...

SO, being realistic, I think the cruiser fits the bill. I think they are awesome, like, on an emotional level, to where I won't mind dumping the right amount of coin into building it up. Enough people figured them out and know how to work on them, so I won't ever get up a creek on my own trying to fix crap. And it's family friendly, to where my hobby won't conflict with my first priority - spending quality time with my wife and kids.

Again, i appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. It has been really helpful.

Why did you post a thread asking to trade your 80 for a built TJ? A TJ doesn't have much more space than a Sami inside unless you find an Unlimited, even then you still have a small back seat that will not hold 3 kids safely.

 

[JL Rockies]

Gangster driver > vehicle.


Kooler than Mudd.

 

[Gravy]

My $0.02

Keep the truck. Mild build on the LC.
Sell the mitsu
Spend that cash on wheeling.

 

[johngottfredson]

Why did you post a thread asking to trade your 80 for a built TJ? A TJ doesn't have much more space than a Sami inside unless you find an Unlimited, even then you still have a small back seat that will not hold 3 kids safely.

Yeah....so yesterday I paid for my new baby out of pocket because I was unable to get insurance ahead of time (frustrating story...I hate insurance companies...) That actually hurt somewhat, and it knew it would take a while to have some disposable income to start modding the LX. I also called Kurt's shop and found out that it will set me back 2,500 for lockers, 2,000 for gears, 1000 for lift.....plus armor, tires, etc....and my enthusiasm for "spending the right amount of coin building it up" waned considerably. Cruisers, it turns out, are not the first choice of the budget conscious off-roader.

In my despair it occurred to me that I would be better off financially to let somebody else take the hit on building a rig, and selling to me at a loss. Or swapping straight across. However, who would swap a built 80 for an unlocked stocker? Looking at the marketplace it seemed there are a heck of a lot more built jeeps floating around, and I might be able to get into a way capable jeep without any more expenditures out of pocket.

Then, when I'm not so financially stressed in a few years, and my kids are actually old enough to appreciate it, I would be in the market for a well built 80, which is still my favorite vehicle.

That was my reasoning. I've taken the post down because I'd like to just sell it now and see if I can't find a great deal on a built 80 right now with the cash from the sale. My vehicle is still listed on KSL.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I also called Kurt's shop and found out that it will set me back 2,500 for lockers, 2,000 for gears, 1000 for lift.....plus armor, tires, etc....and my enthusiasm for "spending the right amount of coin building it up" waned considerably. Cruisers, it turns out, are not the first choice of the budget conscious off-roader.

Fwiw, the prices to build a Tacoma, etc are not going to be 'that' different... in the case of gears/lockers near identical assuming you go ARB F&R for example. That said, you absolutely don't have to do all this stuff at once or ever at all. Many (most) built 100's you see driving around SLC are not re-geared or dual locked... sure it adds to the offroad prowess but it isn't 100% mandatory depending on your trail selection. Start with a lift and protection (front bumper and sliders) and go from there based on your needs (not wants). If the spare tire and bumper are hanging you up... get a bumper. Feeling doggy with 1/2 ton of extra weight, re-gear. Getting stuck, add a rear locker. Obviously there are major cost savings to do some things at the same time (like locker when re-gearing), you have to do what works for your budget. We specialize in turn-key builds, i.e. leave us the truck for 2-3 days and pick it up with bumpers, gears, lockers, sliders, skids, lift, etc... BUT we spend far more time working with customers that do this stuff over the course of a few years and their needs day one change by the time they get to the tail end and their modifications reflect that. My 2 cents

 

[thefirstzukman]

Sell the LX 450 and hold on to the money until you can find you someones nicely built solid axle 4runner.. keep the truck and the Monty for your wife. The LX would be sweet to build and every time I think about a Cruiser I get the chills but to build one is just too much money for me. I love my samurais and have 3 kids ( or used to have till they grew up) I cruised a Sammy for years with 3 rear seat belts, my kids grew up on the trail. My samurai will go anywhere I want to and will cruise the freeway at 80 mph all day long, but I would have traded it in a heart beat for Brandons 4runner. I think they are the best budget rig you can buy and dont think you need big tires or big lift, but I am the outsider when it comes to that. The only time I want bigger tires then my 30's is cruising high speeds on rough roads where I don't have the sidewall height to eat stuff up.. My last 2 samurais have had 29" super swampers and 30" big horns, I have done anything I wanted and never broken an axle and the only time taking a winch was at millers off road park. I really enjoy the trails like HITR I pulled a trailer though that with no problem but would have liked the room in the vehicle rather then the trailer. I will sell you my Samurai for $6500 if you want to go that way and Ill find me a Toyota.

 

[Greg]

Yeah....so yesterday I paid for my new baby out of pocket because I was unable to get insurance ahead of time (frustrating story...I hate insurance companies...) That actually hurt somewhat, and it knew it would take a while to have some disposable income to start modding the LX. I also called Kurt's shop and found out that it will set me back 2,500 for lockers, 2,000 for gears, 1000 for lift.....plus armor, tires, etc....and my enthusiasm for "spending the right amount of coin building it up" waned considerably. Cruisers, it turns out, are not the first choice of the budget conscious off-roader.

In my despair it occurred to me that I would be better off financially to let somebody else take the hit on building a rig, and selling to me at a loss. Or swapping straight across. However, who would swap a built 80 for an unlocked stocker? Looking at the marketplace it seemed there are a heck of a lot more built jeeps floating around, and I might be able to get into a way capable jeep without any more expenditures out of pocket.

Then, when I'm not so financially stressed in a few years, and my kids are actually old enough to appreciate it, I would be in the market for a well built 80, which is still my favorite vehicle.

That was my reasoning. I've taken the post down because I'd like to just sell it now and see if I can't find a great deal on a built 80 right now with the cash from the sale. My vehicle is still listed on KSL.

Wow, sorry about the insurance screw up... I'm sure that hits the pocket book hard!

I think you're wise sticking with an 80 Series for your Family/Bro-Camping/Backcountry rig. They're over-built, incredibly capable, perfectly reliable and are sized well for loading up the family (or buddies) & gear and spending a long weekend in the back country. I was always impressed with how well mine handled on rough roads, loaded up with gear... it was quite smooth.

That said, I will agree with Kurt said above... there is no need to do it all at once. If you own it now then you're that much further ahead in that it's paid for. My advice would be to do one or 2 mods spaced out every 6 months or so. Also, for 90% of the driving you won't need lockers... adding one in the rear will make that 80 more than capable for most any trail in Utah and beyond. One more thing, IMO re-gearing an 80 isn't always a wise return on investment. Even on 35's the stock 4.10 gears aren't that bad, guys that have re-geared haven't gained much back in terms of power or fuel mileage. So at this point, you would be saving money on gears and only purchasing one locker... you've just saved $3,200 out of your build costs!

I would start out with the suspension lift & tires, then add sliders. Next, add the rear locker. After that, work on bumpers. Within 18 months to a year you'd have a very respectable 80 Series.

I will also say that anyone who is selling a built up FZJ80 with lockers, gears, bumpers, sliders, etc, etc, etc... will be asking a steep price. I had a Lexus LX450 (and I truly regret selling it) at one point with Slee suspension, factory lockers, bumpers & sliders, I bought it mostly built from another RME member and paid $10.5k... sold it for the same, after adding a few other mods. A highly modified 80 Series in decent shape is going to sell for top dollar. The question you have to ask is do you want to spend the money all at once, or over time?

Here's a trip with my old LX450... - http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?85499-Colorado-Schofield-and-Kebler-Pass

 

[johngottfredson]

Wow, sorry about the insurance screw up... I'm sure that hits the pocket book hard!

Insurance is the worst! We knew we wanted to get pregs, so we applied for insurance. Denied, for pre-existing condition: infertility. My wife had a miscarriage last year, so that apparently makes us infertile...

So a month later when we proved ourselves fertile, we applied again, but were denied for a pre-existing condition: pregnancy.

Thanks for your thoughts. To your point about built cruisers not losing that much in value, I would say that it definitely would cost more to take a stock, unlocked vehicle, and build it up to what you had, than to buy one for 10.5k. Sure, doing home-made bumpers, sliders, and skid plates, and a rear Aussie locker could be done for that. But anything with the word Slee or ARB on it will be $$$. Just sayin, the guy who pays for that the first time, pays the most for it. I simply am thinking you did it the smart way

 

[Rot Box]

I have a mildly built 100 series and an older F350 with pop-up camper. The amount of fun those two vehicles can provide my family and I seems limitless. If it was me I would keep the F$%d (when you need a truck you need a truck) and 80 then spend your money on gas. From there build your rig based off your needs not wants.

We also have a 98 Honda CRV that we use for commuting to work or trips into town etc. Having three registered vehicles seems excessive at times but we really love having it around. With Awd it's great in snow and in the summer I've gotten as high as 32mpg.. Feeding the V8's isn't much fun unless we're on an adventure. Buying a cheap gas getter is another option to add to the list.

EDIT: Oh and congrats!!!

 

[johngottfredson]

Fwiw, the prices to build a Tacoma, etc are not going to be 'that' different... in the case of gears/lockers near identical assuming you go ARB F&R for example. That said, you absolutely don't have to do all this stuff at once or ever at all. Many (most) built 100's you see driving around SLC are not re-geared or dual locked... sure it adds to the offroad prowess but it isn't 100% mandatory depending on your trail selection. Start with a lift and protection (front bumper and sliders) and go from there based on your needs (not wants). If the spare tire and bumper are hanging you up... get a bumper. Feeling doggy with 1/2 ton of extra weight, re-gear. Getting stuck, add a rear locker. Obviously there are major cost savings to do some things at the same time (like locker when re-gearing), you have to do what works for your budget. We specialize in turn-key builds, i.e. leave us the truck for 2-3 days and pick it up with bumpers, gears, lockers, sliders, skids, lift, etc... BUT we spend far more time working with customers that do this stuff over the course of a few years and their needs day one change by the time they get to the tail end and their modifications reflect that. My 2 cents

To be clear, I have NEVER felt that you have tried to up-sell or push the full turn-key build on me! The first time I stopped by to look at bumper options to replace the jacked-up one on my last cruiser, I balked at the price of the ARB winch bumper. Instead of trying to sell me on the idea, you dug around for a cast-off stock bumper for me to use. I drove with that for a week before I decided to order the ARB.

Of course, slowly building up the vehicle rather than doing it all at once is the smarter way...but is that really the American way? Perhaps I need to appreciate the virtue of delayed gratification...

 

[johngottfredson]

I have a mildly built 100 series and an older F350 with pop-up camper. The amount of fun those two vehicles can provide my family and I seems limitless. If it was me I would keep the F$%d (when you need a truck you need a truck) and 80 then spend your money on gas. From there build your rig based off your needs not wants.

We also have a 98 Honda CRV that we use for commuting to work or trips into town etc. Having three registered vehicles seems excessive at times but we really love having it around. With Awd it's great in snow and in the summer I've gotten as high as 32mpg.. Feeding the V8's isn't much fun unless we're on an adventure. Buying a cheap gas getter is another option to add to the list.

EDIT: Oh and congrats!!!

Thanks! Baby and mother are doing awesome.

I did fail to mention that I have a corolla that gets me 39 mpg's....plus another corolla that my work provides me for my traveling. Definitely feels excessive...planning on selling my corolla to a family member.

 

[mesha]

If I had your stable of rigs. I would keep the ford as my primary adventure rig. Then I would sell the rest and buy a mid-sized rig that is cheap to build for more intense stuff where you don't want to take the ford.. Think, cherokee, 4 runner, etc. My wife would drive the corolla (my actually does drive a corolla )

Another option is to get a less expensive tow rig and then you can build your adventure car. This is what I did. I sold my 4 door cummins and bought an older chevy. I then bought a 4 door JK and built it. I miss my awesome tow rig almost every time I tow, but that happens a lot less then I take out my JK so it was worth it.
I think the two best rigs out there right now are Jeep JK 4 door and a 4 door tacoma. I think they will get you to the same place for similar money.

 

[Troop92]

Congrats on the kid, that's awesome. We're coming up on our first in April, and I'm already socking away cash for the little dude... Would I rather spend it on Trooper? Well, sure, but....

That said, I will agree with Kurt said above... there is no need to do it all at once. If you own it now then you're that much further ahead in that it's paid for. My advice would be to do one or 2 mods spaced out every 6 months or so.

I'd echo the above. Keep the 80 and take your time on it. I have been slowly adding to Trooper over the past few years, little by little. Sure, it looked funny to have a lift with small tires, but what can you do? I will say that the "delayed gratificaiton" has allowed me to really determine what I want and don't want, based on 90% of what I will be doing is. Would I love to build it out to be unstoppable no matter the situation/location? Sure, but that isn't realistic or in the budget. So, a good all around hauler that can get me where I want to go is just the ticket. And if that changes down the road, I'll take a look at the plan again.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Of course, slowly building up the vehicle rather than doing it all at once is the smarter way...but is that really the American way? Perhaps I need to appreciate the virtue of delayed gratification...

That may be the perceived "american way", but most people do not build their rigs all at once. Some people have the coin to just go for it all at once, and that's fine. Most people, however, save up for each part until they eventually have the rig they want. I've learned that you can either build your rig right, or you can build it cheap. This is not a cheap sport, and as much as you think it'll cost to build, add another 20-30% (or if it's a buggy, another 200%).

Also remember that modifications/gear do not help you get out more. A lot of people will think "if I only had a winch, then I'd get out more." Then they get a winch and think "if I only had a fridge I'd get out more." then they get a fridge and think "if I only had a front locker I'd get out more." They they realize their credit card statement is getting bigger and bigger, and they sell the rig and start all over. Remember that if you're not getting out to go camping/exploring in your current rigs in their current state, modifications won't be the tipping point that gets you out on the trail (though modifications can definitely inspire excitement around using your vehicle). The more you get out, the more you'll realize what you do (and don't) need to modify to have fun.

 

[johngottfredson]

That may be the perceived "american way", but most people do not build their rigs all at once. Some people have the coin to just go for it all at once, and that's fine. Most people, however, save up for each part until they eventually have the rig they want. I've learned that you can either build your rig right, or you can build it cheap. This is not a cheap sport, and as much as you think it'll cost to build, add another 20-30% (or if it's a buggy, another 200%).

Also remember that modifications/gear do not help you get out more. A lot of people will think "if I only had a winch, then I'd get out more." Then they get a winch and think "if I only had a fridge I'd get out more." then they get a fridge and think "if I only had a front locker I'd get out more." They they realize their credit card statement is getting bigger and bigger, and they sell the rig and start all over. Remember that if you're not getting out to go camping/exploring in your current rigs in their current state, modifications won't be the tipping point that gets you out on the trail (though modifications can definitely inspire excitement around using your vehicle). The more you get out, the more you'll realize what you do (and don't) need to modify to have fun.

Agreed 100%. My reference to the American way actually didn't have to do with how guys outfit their rigs, but to poke fun at how we Americans often make purchases, use credit cards, "need" larger houses, etc.

The off-road community, of course, is the intellectual and moral cream of the country, and has much more intelligent spending habits

And you are spot on with regards to what holds people back from getting out. It's usually not the rig.

 

[Greg]

Insurance is the worst! We knew we wanted to get pregs, so we applied for insurance. Denied, for pre-existing condition: infertility. My wife had a miscarriage last year, so that apparently makes us infertile...

So a month later when we proved ourselves fertile, we applied again, but were denied for a pre-existing condition: pregnancy.

Wow, that is extremely stupid on their part... unbelievable! Wonder what they were thinking... Seems like the insurance industry is nothing more than legal organized crime, you have to pay... or else!

Regardless, congrats on the kiddo!

Thanks for your thoughts. To your point about built cruisers not losing that much in value, I would say that it definitely would cost more to take a stock, unlocked vehicle, and build it up to what you had, than to buy one for 10.5k. Sure, doing home-made bumpers, sliders, and skid plates, and a rear Aussie locker could be done for that. But anything with the word Slee or ARB on it will be $$$. Just sayin, the guy who pays for that the first time, pays the most for it. I simply am thinking you did it the smart way

I can understand, and I did buy my LX built to save money. That said, last weekend I picked up a stock FZJ with lockers... needs some work (it was affordable), but it's going to get built over time. :greg: OME suspension, 35's, stock gears, sliders & bumpers.

I bet you could get top-dollar for your LX considering the low miles and the fact that it's a '97. Matter of fact... I just looked up NADA values for that thing...

http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/1997/Lexus/LX450-6-Cyl-4WD/Utility-4D-4WD/Values

$11.5k for clean retail value!! I would totally agree with selling yours (try listing it on IH8Mud.com, if you haven't already). Anyone that knows how low those miles are and wants a clean rig should be all over it. If you own it outright and can get around clean retail out of it ($11k +/-), then you should be close to affording a mostly-built FZJ. I would say depending on the build, a well put together FZJ should run around $12-15k.

IMO you may not find something like the right, built FZJ in Utah... you may have to travel. Be prepared, do your research and don't commit to anything until you see it in person. I've been disappointed in the past, but also had successful purchases sight unseen.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Of course, slowly building up the vehicle rather than doing it all at once is the smarter way...but is that really the American way? Perhaps I need to appreciate the virtue of delayed gratification...

...Also remember that modifications/gear do not help you get out more. A lot of people will think "if I only had a winch, then I'd get out more." Then they get a winch and think "if I only had a fridge I'd get out more." then they get a fridge and think "if I only had a front locker I'd get out more." They they realize their credit card statement is getting bigger and bigger, and they sell the rig and start all over. Remember that if you're not getting out to go camping/exploring in your current rigs in their current state, modifications won't be the tipping point that gets you out on the trail (though modifications can definitely inspire excitement around using your vehicle). The more you get out, the more you'll realize what you do (and don't) need to modify to have fun.

Thank you... couldn't have said it better myself

 

[idahoyj]

That said, last weekend I picked up a stock FZJ with lockers... needs some work (it was affordable), but it's going to get built over time. :greg: OME suspension, 35's, stock gears, sliders & bumpers. .

Please dont post a build thread, I'm having a hard time resisting my lusts toward 80's lately and having a build thread on RME might put me over the edge.

 

[Greg]

Thank you... couldn't have said it better myself

Wasn't Steve quoting you?

Please dont post a build thread, I'm having a hard time resisting my lusts toward 80's lately and having a build thread on RME might put me over the edge.

We'll see...

 

[sixstringsteve]

Wasn't Steve quoting you?

x2. I wanted to give Kurt credit for that statement, but I didn't want to speak for him.

And yes, we need a build thread greg.