The wolves are on my doorstep

[RustEoldtrux]

This morning I asked one of the plant mechanics how he did hunting Sunday. He had passed me on the road by my house going up Whitney Canyon to Medicine Butte. He said that he saw a good bunch of elk, but they took off before he could sneak up on them. Then he spotted a pair of wolves close to where the elk had been. Both wolves had radio collars, and there was a fawn carcass nearby. One wolf was standard grey and the other was white. He called Fish and Game, who confirmed that there were indeed 5 wolves living in the area. My wife is now going to drive the kids to the bus stop instead of letting them walk. I'll have bring bring out the lever action rifle for the wife to have in case they go after the livestock (18 horses, 2 calves and 8 chickens). Anyone have a live large trap? I would like to send them to D.C. to liven up the budget fuss.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Call me crazy but I want to see a wolf in the wild of Utah

We had an AFC history night last week before NPLD... we were discussing some of the mining history in the canyon particularly George Tyng, whom died in an avalanche and is buried in the canyon. There was a first hand report from the incident in which the faithful miners stood by the damaged doorway of the building that housed their bosses body... they were afraid the wolves in the canyon would eat his body before morning when they planned to drag it to town. Circa early 1900's

 

[skiboarder]

Ok, you're crazy. But I do agree with you. I have seen tracks behind my house.

 

[jeeper]

I would like to see wolves in Utah... In the center of my cross hairs!

 

[Spork]

I think they would fit right in in DC. Probably couldn't tell the difference between them and the other congress-critters...

 

[phatfoto]

No, wolves listen for signs of danger... Politicians won't listen at all...

 

[O'neal]

Mike and I seen a big black wolf 2 years ago in the bear river divide hunting area....They are around.

 

[ID Bronco]

Call me crazy but I want to see a wolf in the wild of Utah

That's because they aren't in your backyard and you don't have kids walking to the bus stop and animals in the pasture.

They are magnificent, but the attitude of the romantic feeling people think of when they are removed from the harsh reality of the wolves is what feeds the $$$ to the pro wolf folks.

 

[sawtooth4x4]

Come up to Wyoming and then you will see how uncool Wolves are. Our Elk populations have been decimated. Not to mention they kill for fun.

I've seen a few wolves. One ran out right in front of my vehicle. i couldn't accelerate fast enough and i missed it with my bumper.

 

[Kevin B.]

I like wolves too. I think they're awesome, and I think there's definitely a place for them in places like Yellowstone.

I also think that we nearly eradicated them for a reason.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

That's because they aren't in your backyard and you don't have kids walking to the bus stop and animals in the pasture.

They are magnificent, but the attitude of the romantic feeling people think of when they are removed from the harsh reality of the wolves is what feeds the $$$ to the pro wolf folks.

Attitude?

Harsh reality?

Tugging at the emotions perhaps? Remind me how many school kids have been killed by wolves in the last 100 years of US history.

I've seen wolves in the wild, I've seen lions, tigers, bears, wild dogs, hyenas, jackals, dingos, rhinos, elephants, snakes and spiders... I like seeing all of them in the wild and they all have their place, romantic or not, deadly or not. I get that they kill livestock, and ranchers should be allowed to protect their herds.

Who was protecting the elk herds before man got involved?

 

[Rot Box]

I spent a few hours with a Grey wolf this year (well... It was ~93% wolf and 7% something else. I'm pretty sure the 7% was the part that kept it from ripping my face off). What an amazing and intelligent animal to say the least. The facial expressions alone were crazy. It was a fun experience for me and I gained a whole new respect for these animals. That said it is a double edged sword. I'm friends with several farmers/ranchers and the concern is there and rightfully so.

I don't know what the answer is.

 

[mesha]

I am terrified of wolves. Probably because I read a lot of Jack London books as a child.

Wolves are here to stay. Some states even issue hunting permits to manage the population.

They are beautiful, scary, and crazy smart. They are surprisingly like humans in so many ways. I can understand why people are afraid of them. They are the number 2 greatest predator in the world in my opinion.

15 human deaths have been reported WORLD WIDE from all wolf species since 2000. That is according to wikipedia, so take the source for what it is worth(each death was properly sited in the article though).

The increasing populations of wolves and humans will likely lead to an increase in deaths just because of the numbers. I believe the wolf will recover to the point that they will be put back on the bounty list and we will get paid to kill them.

 

[DAA]

Who was protecting the elk herds before man got involved?

I don't know. It's not a valid question, really. Whatever the situation may have been a thousand, or ten thousand or a hundred thousand years ago, has not even the slightest resemblance or relationship to what the situation is now.

But what I do know, is that Man most definitely is involved now. I, along with millions of my fellow sportsman, have been the ones who mostly PAID millions upon millions of dollars over the span of many decades to re-establish elk herds to the levels currently enjoyed.

Hell... The woofs wouldn't have been able to do so well in and around Yellowstone in the first placce without that huge buffer of elk there waiting for them. Those elk didn't just happen. It took decades of work to establish them. All turned to literal dog shit now though. Well, 70% of the northern herd, anyway, with calf recruitment levels too small to maintain the remaining 30%, it is hard to say how low the numbers will eventually bottom out at.

The elk are never coming back. The wolves are never going away. It was a piss poor exchange, in my opinion. With the largest stake holder not even included in the decision making process except in a purely window dressing/lip service/ass sex-sans reach-around kind of way. And it will be a damn shame when the relatively small and fragile elk herds in Utah get turned into dog shit.

- DAA

 

[ZUKEYPR]

They are the number 2 greatest predator in the world in my opinion.

.

Who's number one.....the NSA. Ah, I couldn't resist, back to your same local channel.

 

[mesha]

Who's number one.....the NSA. Ah, I couldn't resist, back to your same local channel.

haha

I should have said number 3.
1=humans
2=Polar bear
3=Large wolf species.

In my opinion.

I am not counting insects and small creatures even though there are some astounding predators among them.

 

[ID Bronco]

Attitude?

Harsh reality?

Tugging at the emotions perhaps? Remind me how many school kids have been killed by wolves in the last 100 years of US history.

I've seen wolves in the wild, I've seen lions, tigers, bears, wild dogs, hyenas, jackals, dingos, rhinos, elephants, snakes and spiders... I like seeing all of them in the wild and they all have their place, romantic or not, deadly or not. I get that they kill livestock, and ranchers should be allowed to protect their herds.

Who was protecting the elk herds before man got involved?

I don't know. It's not a valid question, really. Whatever the situation may have been a thousand, or ten thousand or a hundred thousand years ago, has not even the slightest resemblance or relationship to what the situation is now.

But what I do know, is that Man most definitely is involved now. I, along with millions of my fellow sportsman, have been the ones who mostly PAID millions upon millions of dollars over the span of many decades to re-establish elk herds to the levels currently enjoyed.

Hell... The woofs wouldn't have been able to do so well in and around Yellowstone in the first placce without that huge buffer of elk there waiting for them. Those elk didn't just happen. It took decades of work to establish them. All turned to literal dog shit now though. Well, 70% of the northern herd, anyway, with calf recruitment levels too small to maintain the remaining 30%, it is hard to say how low the numbers will eventually bottom out at.

The elk are never coming back. The wolves are never going away. It was a piss poor exchange, in my opinion. With the largest stake holder not even included in the decision making process except in a purely window dressing/lip service/ass sex-sans reach-around kind of way. And it will be a damn shame when the relatively small and fragile elk herds in Utah get turned into dog shit.

- DAA

Sensitivity?

16 humans according to another Wickipedia. You have been all over and seen everything but I still miss the elk and other previously abundant animals I used to see. DAA echoed my opinions very closely.

But hey, they are neat to see! A pack piled up 172 sheep (all dead) in one night. They ate the hind quarters on ONE lamb out of them all. This was last month in Mud Lake ID.

As far as predators, they are definitely up there on my list. I am lobbying to let some go in central park, the early explorers wrote about them being native to that area.

 

[Spork]

Sensitivity?

16 humans according to another Wickipedia. You have been all over and seen everything but I still miss the elk and other previously abundant animals I used to see. DAA echoed my opinions very closely.

But hey, they are neat to see! A pack piled up 172 sheep (all dead) in one night. They ate the hind quarters on ONE lamb out of them all. This was last month in Mud Lake ID.

As far as predators, they are definitely up there on my list. I am lobbying to let some go in central park, the early explorers wrote about them being native to that area.

Maybe this could be a solution, the folks back east want them reintroduced in the west may it would be wise in the east also. Chicago, DC, Detroit all could benefit...

 

[rholbrook]

I have a client in Bozeman that is actively fighting the wolf proponents. The problem with wolfs is that they kill to kill. They don't limit their kill to feeding their pack, they just flat out kill. The Mud Lake incident was brutal, they also go three or four of those big sheep dogs. I have a PDF file I wish I could upload but Montana State Universityhas done studies

Average kill rate per wolf per month = 3.05 Elk
36 Elk Per Year/Wolf
~2,000 Wolves
=
72,000 Elk Per Year


Wolves are actually the most wasteful predator in theUS and kill for sport


Montana State University Study of Yellowstone’s Northern Range


Elk are the primary prey for wolves, comprising 92 % of kills during the winter


Elk decreased significantly from 16,791 in winter 1995 to 8,335 in winter 2004 as the number of wolves increased .


Kill rates by wolves in winter are over 30 Elk per wolf per year –nearly TRIPLE the rate predicted in the Endangered Species Act (ESA).

Elk numbers 1993 –1995 Averaged between 17,000 and 19,000

Wolves Introduced in 1995

Elk numbers 2005 –2007 Averaged between 6,700 and 6,300

A 67% DECREASE IN ELK POPULATIONS

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Sensitivity?

16 humans according to another Wickipedia. You have been all over and seen everything but I still miss the elk and other previously abundant animals I used to see. DAA echoed my opinions very closely.

But hey, they are neat to see! A pack piled up 172 sheep (all dead) in one night. They ate the hind quarters on ONE lamb out of them all. This was last month in Mud Lake ID.

As far as predators, they are definitely up there on my list. I am lobbying to let some go in central park, the early explorers wrote about them being native to that area.

I'm all for it. Then again, I don't think man need to try and control so much in this world... be it the relations of animal kingdom or the salvation of another. To me it is a God complex, who are we to decide which animals live just for the enjoyment of another? That is a rhetorical question because I don't know the answer but to me it isn't far off from kicking 4x4 users off of a trail because the erosion is hampering the "establishment" of prized trout fisheries that never historically existed... and this is happening in my backyard (AF Canyon and Forest Lake Trail). I like to hunt, I like to fish... but I don't think they trump all.

Fwiw, twice as many people died last year along from dog attacks and more people have died in the US from cougar attacks than worldwide by wolves.

And don't paint a different picture than I have intended... I simply said I would like to see a wolf here in Utah, they are here (estimates range from 10-60), cattle and sheep are still everywhere and kids still walk to school. I clearly said ranchers should have the right to protect their herds and if/when we reach a population of wolves that is beyond the sustainable levels of nature, we hunt them. Like bears, cougars and other predators. According to the Dept. of Ag, less than 1/4 of 1% of livestock in the US is lost to all predators combined on an annual basis. While it may be higher in the mountain west, that is a cost of doing business on public lands of the west no?