This is what Im talking about

clfrnacwby said:
Because Utah doesn't require any range time to obtain a CCW, Nevada no longer reciprocates with Utah. In the class I took a couple of weeks ago the Instructor was providing Utah and Arizona permits. After just taking the class, we could send in our Utah paperwork. For Arizona, it couldn't be sent in until range time had been completed. This is why Nevada accepts an Arizona permit and not a Utah permit - too easy to get in their opinion (and I agree).
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Utah used to require range time, I'd like to see it come back. The only state you get by getting the Arizona permit (in addition to your Utah permit) is Nevada.
 
Keep in mind a ccw doesn't give anyone the abilty to carry, it only covers the legal part.

There are still going to be people who carry unpermitted, and laws don't stop criminals.

There are pros and cons to both sides of this. Either way, if someone wants to carry, they will.
 
I'm torn. I took my class last month, hope to get my license any week now. On one hand I think people should have at least some form of class before carrying, and range time makes sense. However, the ccw class I took, while good in many ways, really wouldn't help someone that had never shot a gun before. Also, my wife has been a bit resistant to getting a CCW permit based solely on not wanting her name on a government list, and I agree (although decided it was worth it). In order to legally carry here you have to put in the effort of taking a class, which in and of itself probably keeps some people from carrying that probably shouldn't - ie someone that rarely or never shoots but is on the way to the movies and knows their husband/wife/roommate has a handgun they can get to.

Ultimately the Libertarian in me says people that carry SHOULD spend some time at the range and SHOULD take a class to get a better understanding of the state laws, but should not be legally required to. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go get my guns ready - the wife and I have "date night" every Wednesday and tonight's activities include going to the shooting range.
 
black_ZJ said:
I would be more scared if it passes than before, last thing we need are a bunch of idiots shooting people because they made them "mad". The CCW class teaches you restraint and controlling your temper so you can actually think before you react.
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If people are going to be driven to homicide because they're mad at someone, there's going to be a homicide regardless of carry laws.
 
JL Rockies said:
If people are going to be driven to homicide because they're mad at someone, there's going to be a homicide regardless of carry laws.
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^^ I agree

do you maybe think that if there were more people carrying, that the cases of accidental "heat of the moment" discharges would be increased proportionately to the number of people carrying?
 
I personally think the Utah permit is ridiculous. Back when they first came out, which is when I got mine you had to shoot one shot and all you had to do is hit a paper target at 25 ft. you didn't even have to hit the target itself. Hunter education is more difficult. I believe you should atleast be able to field strip your weapon and be able to clean it. Hit the taget at 25 ft atleast one out of five. The class should be 4 hours class time and 4 hours range time. My .02
 
One more thing

Since a Federal Background check is performed your permit should be nation wide. Accepted in ALL states including New York and California, which are the two staes that I believe you need to carry most.
 
This has really got me thinking. I have said in other posts that I am not a gun owner, and have next to zero time behind a gun. The only "training" I have gotten was "point and shoot". I am in no way qualified (by my own standards) to carry a gun around with me.
I am now very interested to take a 3 (?) hour class to get a ccw just to see if they would really give it to me. I can't believe that they would. And just because it is our "right" to do that, I don't think we should just take on that right. I wonder if our founding fathers would have made that right today with today's weapons, compared to the weapons that were around when they wrote it. I don't know enough anything about weapons, but I imagine they are a lot different.

So it looks like maybe the best part of getting a ccw around here is the possibility to get out of a speeding ticket. For that reason alone, sign me up!
 
UNSTUCK said:
This has really got me thinking. I have said in other posts that I am not a gun owner, and have next to zero time behind a gun. The only "training" I have gotten was "point and shoot". I am in no way qualified (by my own standards) to carry a gun around with me.
I am now very interested to take a 3 (?) hour class to get a ccw just to see if they would really give it to me. I can't believe that they would. And just because it is our "right" to do that, I don't think we should just take on that right. I wonder if our founding fathers would have made that right today with today's weapons, compared to the weapons that were around when they wrote it. I don't know enough anything about weapons, but I imagine they are a lot different.

So it looks like maybe the best part of getting a ccw around here is the possibility to get out of a speeding ticket. For that reason alone, sign me up!
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As long as you can pass the criminal background check, I can assure you they will issue it to you. My wife just turned hers in, it sounds like she has about as much time as you behind a gun.
 
Why though? Do the instructors get paid based on how many they pass? Why aren't we pushing for stricter ccw rules? Imagine if it was like this with our drivers licenses.
 
UNSTUCK said:
Imagine if it was like this with our drivers licenses.
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It isn't? Have you seen the way most people here drive. I'm not disagreeing, I agree the curriculum for the course should be more standardized. I also believe you should have to display at minimum basic hand gun knowledge and some sort of qualification. Followed by another qualification come time to renew.
 
UNSTUCK said:
Why though? Do the instructors get paid based on how many they pass? Why aren't we pushing for stricter ccw rules? Imagine if it was like this with our drivers licenses.
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Because the class is all about understanding your rights and responsibilities. In my class they did cover the basics, showed the main parts of both a semi-auto pistol and a revolver, and went over some basic stances, grips, etc. as well as the 4 rules of gun safety. Mainly though it was common sense, where you can and cannot carry, that kind of thing. It was definitely not a shooting class. All in all, I came away with 4 things. 1) Utah constitution says a CCW holder CAN carry on any public school (and most other state owned land), I didn't know that but I'm not a UT native. 2) A woman should never carry a gun in her purse, it's the first thing a thief/assailant will yank off her (never thought about it 'cause I'm not a woman but makes perfect sense). 3) Utah law protects our rights, it's illegal for a state or federal authority to confiscate guns from a law abiding citizen they way people's guns were stolen by the gov't during Katrina. 4) My CCW (whenever it finally shows up).
 
I am of the opposite opinion. AZ, Vermont and Alaska all have constitutional carry and have had 0 issues. I think if you carry you should take it upon yourself to be VERY proficient with your firearm. I suggest people be able to fire a first shot in under 1 second. However, it isn't the governments responsibility to assure this. If they require range time it won't make you a better shot. Hours and hours of practice and repetition will. Therefore I am opposed to any increased requirements. Anytime the government adds requirements it only increases red tape and little or no actual benefit.
I am really surprised to hear people on this board call for more regulation and fear "blood in the streets" if constitutional carry passes. It is in place in the most violent place in the country (AZ) and is working fine.


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glockman said:
I am of the opposite opinion. AZ, Vermont and Alaska all have constitutional carry and have had 0 issues. I think if you carry you should take it upon yourself to be VERY proficient with your firearm. I suggest people be able to fire a first shot in under 1 second. However, it isn't the governments responsibility to assure this. If they require range time it won't make you a better shot. Hours and hours of practice and repetition will. Therefore I am opposed to any increased requirements. Anytime the government adds requirements it only increases red tape and little or no actual benefit.
I am really surprised to hear people on this board call for more regulation and fear "blood in the streets" if constitutional carry passes. It is in place in the most violent place in the country (AZ) and is working fine.


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I am not a fan of red tape either, and maybe everything would be okay. My fear is "if" it becomes legal, every swinging dick carrying a gun all of a sudden because they can, and because of the potential amount of extra weapons on the street a bad shoot happening hurting the cause more. I feel long term maybe not a bad idea because it is our right. I'm just worried about the kid with the shiny new right doing something to hurt the cause.

And your right its not governments responsibility to make sure we are trained and proficient, it is our responsibility as responsible gun owners. Once again I’m just fearful of the same jerk that decides he can take his 4x4 anywhere he wants because it is capable of driving over there, which eventually leads to getting our trails closed. I’m afraid of this same jerk shooting a kid, or a guy reaching for his cigarettes, insert scenario here, and losing my firearm rights for good.

Sheeple are stupid, I don’t my right taken away because of it
 
I was just thinking the other day that all the MLK gun show accidents were likely due to yahoos who'd never handled a firearm before and didn't know what they were doing - I'd hate to see the same thing happen because the need for CCW was revoked. I think I've changed my mind, thanks TRD.
 
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