TJ Roll Cage and LS1 Swap
- Thread starter UNSTUCK
- Start date
UNSTUCK
But stuck more often.
Time for another update:
We met our deadline for my customers trip last weekend. He had a blast with the new engine. We installed a mechanical oil pressure gauge so he could keep an eye on that and then used my scan tool to keep an eye on the other critical's. He brought it back to me last Wednesday to figure out the gauges. He was about to pull the trigger on a set of aftermarket gauges, and replacing the entire gauge pod with a whole new one.
I was referred to a guy that does mobile diagnostics from another buddy. We decided to give him a chance at diagnosing the issue, before pulling the trigger on removing the entire SKIM, Jeep ECU, ABM, ect. system. This guy was AWESOME. Friday, he pulls up in a van that is loaded with every imaginable computer and software for every single car. After explaining what we had done, and what Novak is trying to do to the Jeep, we went to town playing with it. He was able to quickly see that only half of the jeep ECU was getting power to it. And then we found the two power wires that I had cut. This whole time I though those were power out of the ecu, but they were power into the ecu. We jumped those wires and......TA DA!!!! Gauges work! SKIM light off!!!
Well almost.
No tach. The very reason we used Novak was to reuse the stock tach. So with his scope and scan tool we got back at it.
In a perfect world, the GM PCM sends out a tach signal right to the GM cars' tach gauge. In our case, that tach signal wire plugs into the Novak Tach Emulator Box. That box has five wires going to it. Power, Ground, Signal in, and two Signal outs. So the box takes the GM tach signal and converts it into a crank position signal and a cam position signal that the Jeep ECU will understand. With those two signals, the Jeep ECU will then send a signal to the Jeep tach gauge. We checked that we had good power and ground. We did. We then scoped the GM tach signal wire. We could watch the wave on the scope adjust based on RPMs, going from 12 volts to 0 volts. That seemed to be good. We then scoped the two output wires from the box. The crank sensor wire puts out a wave that is similar to the GM tach wire, fluctuating with RPM, but 5 volts to 0 volts. On the other hand, the cam position wire is a solid 5 volts with no fluctuation with the engine RPMs going up and down. It would go to 5 volts as soon as the key turned on, with the engine off, and stay there till the key was off again.
We concluded that the box is not putting out a signal the jeep ECU needs to make a tach signal.
I'll be calling Novak again here in a minute.
In the meantime, I'll be cleaning up the rest of the wiring, fixing the two power wires I cut, and building new fenders and a grill hoop. Then this jeep will be ready to go. Well till round #3 this winter when it gets the suspension redone with bypass shocks. Joy.
We met our deadline for my customers trip last weekend. He had a blast with the new engine. We installed a mechanical oil pressure gauge so he could keep an eye on that and then used my scan tool to keep an eye on the other critical's. He brought it back to me last Wednesday to figure out the gauges. He was about to pull the trigger on a set of aftermarket gauges, and replacing the entire gauge pod with a whole new one.
I was referred to a guy that does mobile diagnostics from another buddy. We decided to give him a chance at diagnosing the issue, before pulling the trigger on removing the entire SKIM, Jeep ECU, ABM, ect. system. This guy was AWESOME. Friday, he pulls up in a van that is loaded with every imaginable computer and software for every single car. After explaining what we had done, and what Novak is trying to do to the Jeep, we went to town playing with it. He was able to quickly see that only half of the jeep ECU was getting power to it. And then we found the two power wires that I had cut. This whole time I though those were power out of the ecu, but they were power into the ecu. We jumped those wires and......TA DA!!!! Gauges work! SKIM light off!!!
Well almost.
No tach. The very reason we used Novak was to reuse the stock tach. So with his scope and scan tool we got back at it.
In a perfect world, the GM PCM sends out a tach signal right to the GM cars' tach gauge. In our case, that tach signal wire plugs into the Novak Tach Emulator Box. That box has five wires going to it. Power, Ground, Signal in, and two Signal outs. So the box takes the GM tach signal and converts it into a crank position signal and a cam position signal that the Jeep ECU will understand. With those two signals, the Jeep ECU will then send a signal to the Jeep tach gauge. We checked that we had good power and ground. We did. We then scoped the GM tach signal wire. We could watch the wave on the scope adjust based on RPMs, going from 12 volts to 0 volts. That seemed to be good. We then scoped the two output wires from the box. The crank sensor wire puts out a wave that is similar to the GM tach wire, fluctuating with RPM, but 5 volts to 0 volts. On the other hand, the cam position wire is a solid 5 volts with no fluctuation with the engine RPMs going up and down. It would go to 5 volts as soon as the key turned on, with the engine off, and stay there till the key was off again.
We concluded that the box is not putting out a signal the jeep ECU needs to make a tach signal.
I'll be calling Novak again here in a minute.
In the meantime, I'll be cleaning up the rest of the wiring, fixing the two power wires I cut, and building new fenders and a grill hoop. Then this jeep will be ready to go. Well till round #3 this winter when it gets the suspension redone with bypass shocks. Joy.
Last edited:
UNSTUCK
But stuck more often.
Getting real close to wrapping this one up. No pictures this time, but an update non the less.
After calling Novak about the no tach issue, I found out they sent me the wrong emulator box. They sent me the newer jeep version that doesn't use a cam signal. So they sent me the right one ( I hope). For what ever reason, they do not have a harness plug on these boxes. They are hard wired. So I had to cut and resolder all five wires again.
With that done, I was able to start cleaning up the wiring and put some loom in place. Tonight I will clamp the loom in place and the wiring will be done!
We have kind of a crazy idea for the new fenders we are building. We are having the tube that follows the hood line rolled to help it follow the radius of the hood better. I hope they get done today. I' running out of time.
After that is just a few little items to wrap up and this puppy will be on the trails going faster then ever.
After calling Novak about the no tach issue, I found out they sent me the wrong emulator box. They sent me the newer jeep version that doesn't use a cam signal. So they sent me the right one ( I hope). For what ever reason, they do not have a harness plug on these boxes. They are hard wired. So I had to cut and resolder all five wires again.
With that done, I was able to start cleaning up the wiring and put some loom in place. Tonight I will clamp the loom in place and the wiring will be done!
We have kind of a crazy idea for the new fenders we are building. We are having the tube that follows the hood line rolled to help it follow the radius of the hood better. I hope they get done today. I' running out of time.
After that is just a few little items to wrap up and this puppy will be on the trails going faster then ever.
UNSTUCK
But stuck more often.
I've been working on finishing this Jeep up. Built the grill hoop, then had the fender tube rolled. It turned out great. There is actually only about a foot of roll in the middle of the tube. Then straight on both ends. I think it looks real nice. I didn't make the vertical fender tube come forward enough, so I'm going to do that over. The idea is to make the tire stuff in the fender as tight as possible. I can bring the top of that tube a few inches further forward.
Yes, the radiator is leaking! Working on that one now.
Yes, the radiator is leaking! Working on that one now.
UNSTUCK
But stuck more often.
Well this project continues to progress. We're to the point now where I have it ready to go for the weekend so Braden can go play and then he brings it back to me for more tweeking early the next week. 
So anyways, the new front fender section is all done and powder coated. It turned out pretty nice.
The next project was to rip out the passenger side airbag and use its frame section to mount a fish finder. This took a little bit of doing. It's mounted solid to the airbag frame, but kind of floats in the dash. So cutting the dash took two or three (million) trims to get it to fit perfect. I'm happy to report that the airbag did not blow up in my face, and we did not put it under my couch for the unsuspecting visitor, although we thought about it. I didn't show it, but we mounted a couple of aux power fuse blocks under the airbag frame for all the extras this jeep will eventually have, ie, more lights, pumper, heated seats, ect.
So anyways, the new front fender section is all done and powder coated. It turned out pretty nice.
The next project was to rip out the passenger side airbag and use its frame section to mount a fish finder. This took a little bit of doing. It's mounted solid to the airbag frame, but kind of floats in the dash. So cutting the dash took two or three (million) trims to get it to fit perfect. I'm happy to report that the airbag did not blow up in my face, and we did not put it under my couch for the unsuspecting visitor, although we thought about it. I didn't show it, but we mounted a couple of aux power fuse blocks under the airbag frame for all the extras this jeep will eventually have, ie, more lights, pumper, heated seats, ect.
UNSTUCK
But stuck more often.
Anyone racing with Speed Bumps knows to plan on rebuilding them after each race. They just don't hold up to the abuse. So out with the old, in with the new, in the flavor of Fox. I started off by cutting out the old mounts. The frame got a little (ok a lot) tweeked on a hard jump a while back and it got pushed in a bit around the front mounts. I cut fishplates to extend the ones already in place. Then made new, stronger mounts for the front. The rear was much easier, just welding the cans in place and adding gussetting. Why not french them in? Good question. Mount them quick and easy because this winter the jeep will be back-halfed for a new suspension. I started off with a pressure if 210psi. Just a guess. This weekend will be spent tuning them.
Next on the list? Can someone explain to me how an atlas range box cable with 1" throw is supposed to shift a lever with over 1 1/2 inches of travel? Put your thinking caps on!
Next on the list? Can someone explain to me how an atlas range box cable with 1" throw is supposed to shift a lever with over 1 1/2 inches of travel? Put your thinking caps on!
jeepin4x4james
WAAAAA
- Location
- Bluffdale, UT
Cantilever....
UNSTUCK
But stuck more often.
Well I spent the weekend in Moab with Braden and a few other guys running some trails. I think this build round is done!
I had an absolute blast riding shotgun most of the time, with a bit of drive time thrown in there too. I knew the jeep was a great crawler, but had no idea how much fun it was in the go fast stuff. Replacing the Speed Bumps with the Fox bumps was a huge improvement and really helped soak up the bumps. We messed around with pressures a bit, but I think a bit more adjustment is needed to find the sweet spot, but overall the jeep did great. It was a lot of fun, and much needed. I hadn't wheeled moab for a long time.
I took a few pictures and some video. I'll get the video up soon.
I had an absolute blast riding shotgun most of the time, with a bit of drive time thrown in there too. I knew the jeep was a great crawler, but had no idea how much fun it was in the go fast stuff. Replacing the Speed Bumps with the Fox bumps was a huge improvement and really helped soak up the bumps. We messed around with pressures a bit, but I think a bit more adjustment is needed to find the sweet spot, but overall the jeep did great. It was a lot of fun, and much needed. I hadn't wheeled moab for a long time.
I took a few pictures and some video. I'll get the video up soon.
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- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Excellent work Josh!
UNSTUCK
But stuck more often.
Here is a really rough video I put together tonight. We hit the washes north of Moab for some high speed fun and then ran a few trails as well. Then called it a good weekend. Sounds like there were a few guys from here that I missed down there. Maybe next time. Oh, turn the volume up.
[video=youtube;FRYTvo8tj-E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRYTvo8tj-E&feature=youtu.be[/video]
[video=youtube;FRYTvo8tj-E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRYTvo8tj-E&feature=youtu.be[/video]
UNSTUCK
But stuck more often.
Thanks. It's been a fun one. One that never seems to end. Tentative plans for this winter are to back half it, stretch it another 10ish inches, and add by-pass shocks all around. Then it will be a contender in the EMC if he decides he wants to play. In order to get the stretch and up travel he wants, he may have to go to full hydro steering, which would take him out of the EMC, so that is kind of the debate right now. He just wants to go faster. 60 mph seemed more then fast enough to me though on those whoops. But this was the first time for me ever going that fast.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Sounds great! What headers and exhaust are on it? Loved the high-speed wash action, that looks like my kind of fun! The first part of the video was... rough, especially full screen. Someone needs a GoPro...
jeepin4x4james
WAAAAA
- Location
- Bluffdale, UT
Awesome!
Using a 4L60E trans right? I remember Braden mentioning a Transgo shift kit... Did you use the -hd2 kit or the -3 ?
Curious if he's able to hold gears (start in 2nd from a stop if wanted)...
Using a 4L60E trans right? I remember Braden mentioning a Transgo shift kit... Did you use the -hd2 kit or the -3 ?
Curious if he's able to hold gears (start in 2nd from a stop if wanted)...
UNSTUCK
But stuck more often.
Sounds great! What headers and exhaust are on it? Loved the high-speed wash action, that looks like my kind of fun! The first part of the video was... rough, especially full screen. Someone needs a GoPro...
Sanderson headers from Novak. The rest is a two into one that crosses under the pan. Then out the back on the passenger side and dumps right behind the belly pan. No cat. I can't remember what muffler, but it's the smallest one you can get, and straight through. It's a bit loud for my taste, but there was really no other option. It really wakes up and sounds great above 4000 rpm. Below that there is alot of reverb. I hate feeling it in my voice when I talk.
We both have go pros, just didn't think to bring them on this trip. I thought they were pretty smooth, considering...
He is using a 4l60e. And yes on the transgo kit. It is the hd2 kit. As for holding a gear, the advertising on this kit is a bit deceiving. It says right on the paperwork, "Holds Manual 1st--2nd--3rd to any RPM--Backshifts to gear you select"
We took that as meaning select 2nd gear and it will start in second. It doesn't. It starts in first and then shifts to second, but will hold the gear even if you are bouncing off the rev limiter. It wont upshift. Then if you downshift from 4th to 3rd it will do that and compression brake, just like a manual trans would do coming to a stop.
So it's not quite what he wanted, but it is better then stock. The shifts are pretty quick when it is working, so 1st to 2nd isn't bad, but not ideal in a waterfall situation. But with his 4 speed atlas he can make any gear work just fine.
He is going to dyno tune it pretty soon. There are a few situations where the shifts are really slow. He wants to try to tune that out of it. As for a few other issues that the dyno will hopefully fix: Sometimes the engine stalls when the throttle closes fast after being under load (this happened while blasting back from the sand dunes thrusday night. Caused the rear end to lock up and put us sideways off the road and into a tree/bush thingy. Not good) The other concern is the heat. Blasting down that wash in the video the temps climbed to 242* before he backed off it. Novak set the fan to come on at 210, which I think is too late for the radiator to catch up, but then going that fast in the wash should really need the fan. The other annoying thing is the stock Jeep temp gauge sits on 210* when the gm computer is telling us it's 200* all the way up to about 230*. Once it gets hotter then that it moves up a bit.
I don't like the hot temps, but am not sure at what point it becomes to hot. 250? 260? Anyone have any thoughts on that?
jeepin4x4james
WAAAAA
- Location
- Bluffdale, UT
Same situation with the Transgo kit, after the install and disappointment I found out the kit is more for race guys that want the rpm's to scream without the ecu's built in safeties forcing an up shift... The -3 kit is supposed to make the valve body vacuum controlled instead of electronic... In turn making it full manual... Or so Transgo literature states.
I have an LT in my Jeep, which typically run hotter than LS... I have a 2 stage electric fan, first comes on at 170 (t-stat is 160), second comes on at 185.... My gauge is usually around 180-190 for trail riding, high speed bombing/rallying gets me up in the 210-225 area.
I had much better cooling with my brass radiator... It was damaged though and I couldn't find anything but aluminum... I had to change the fan on temps and t-stat with the aluminum radiator to prevent overheating.
I have an LT in my Jeep, which typically run hotter than LS... I have a 2 stage electric fan, first comes on at 170 (t-stat is 160), second comes on at 185.... My gauge is usually around 180-190 for trail riding, high speed bombing/rallying gets me up in the 210-225 area.
I had much better cooling with my brass radiator... It was damaged though and I couldn't find anything but aluminum... I had to change the fan on temps and t-stat with the aluminum radiator to prevent overheating.
UNSTUCK
But stuck more often.
We are still dealing with the Novak radiator leak. We need to remove it and repair/replace it. At that time I think we will try a colder t-stat and then turn down the fan on temp. Hopefully that will solve any hot temps. But we are also considering louvers for the hood and new side panels on the fenders. I just think that the engine is so tight against the firewall that it doesn't allow any airflow and causes hot air to just dam up inside there.
No matter what though, racing down sandy washes on 42's with 5 psi in them is hard on parts. Just crawling around on a trail it stays cool.
No matter what though, racing down sandy washes on 42's with 5 psi in them is hard on parts. Just crawling around on a trail it stays cool.