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TRUMP: Whats the real deal?

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UT410

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Supporting Member
These types of debates used to get me so heated. I wanted to be right and influence those whom were of a different opinion or perspective... even though I was so far from truly understanding all of the complex pieces. Then I read a book titled, "The Influential Mind" and while I was reading I had a huge shift. I recognized that my debating, arguing, hypothesizing and dare I say using logical fallacies... kept me with blinders on.

It's an interesting (eye-opening) read.

I'm not sure how it would be received by a pro-Trump-and-nothing-else reader. I haven't been a fan of most presidents (since I've been paying attention) basically because my BS hypocrite meter gets pegged (and I cannot stand when politicians cannot work together for the betterment of the country). However, I look at political stunts/tactics/BS from a different WAY LESS EMOTIONAL standpoint. Also, it's now really easy for me to recognize when I want to jump into a debate for any reason other than moving the conversation forward. Now, I just don't say anything.

This book helped me respect all viewpoints.
 
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jackjoh

jackjoh

Jack - KC6NAR
Supporting Member
Location
Riverton, UT
At some point in time the congress will have to compromise and pass immigration, wall, and border security laws. If you look on the bright side of not passing a budget it is my understanding that there is present law that allows government to bet rid of non-essential departments that include Education, Health & Welfare and about 8 others. This is what is needed for the country to be run according to the Constitution so let them be stupid.
 
Houndoc

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
This might sound heartless towards those affected by the shutdown but I don't mean it to be that way.

However, question we need be asking is not who voted for or against issuing paychecks during the shutdown but if doing so would be legal. The entire cause of the shutdown is that money has not be allocated to pay anyone, so it would seem to me it would be unconstitutional to pay employees with money that hasn't been legally authorized to be spent. It wasn't all that long ago the GOP was a stickler on Constitutionality of actions. Wish they would stay that way.

If they still paid employees, but officially "shut down the government" because a budget had not been passed we are really making the concept of passing a budget irrelevant. We certainly don't want to go there.

Instead of feel good patches or useless votes, Congress just needs to get their act together and pass budgets- ideally on time when they are do in September each year. To get us out of the current mess I wish House and Senate leadership from both parties would just negotiate a budget, pass it and then dare the president to veto it if it doesn't fund his wall.
 
Homefryy

Homefryy

Active Member
Location
Salt Lake City
Houndoc said:
This might sound heartless towards those affected by the shutdown but I don't mean it to be that way.

However, question we need be asking is not who voted for or against issuing paychecks during the shutdown but if doing so would be legal. The entire cause of the shutdown is that money has not be allocated to pay anyone, so it would seem to me it would be unconstitutional to pay employees with money that hasn't been legally authorized to be spent. It wasn't all that long ago the GOP was a stickler on Constitutionality of actions. Wish they would stay that way.

If they still paid employees, but officially "shut down the government" because a budget had not been passed we are really making the concept of passing a budget irrelevant. We certainly don't want to go there.

Instead of feel good patches or useless votes, Congress just needs to get their act together and pass budgets- ideally on time when they are do in September each year. To get us out of the current mess I wish House and Senate leadership from both parties would just negotiate a budget, pass it and then dare the president to veto it if it doesn't fund his wall.
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I agree. I want the shutdown to end ASAP and people to get paid but I also don't think there is a point to having a budget if we can continue to operate without one.

I believe I am simplifying things greatly but in the UK I believe failure to pass a budget is essentially similar to a vote of no confidence in the government and triggers an election. I could get behind something like that. If Congress can't pass a budget they should all be put at risk of getting voted out.

Another good solution would be to default to the previous budget until a new one is passed so there would be no such thing as a shutdown.
 
Spork

Spork

Tin Foil Hat Equipped
Location
Saratoga Springs, UT
Homefryy said:
I agree. I want the shutdown to end ASAP and people to get paid but I also don't think there is a point to having a budget if we can continue to operate without one.

I believe I am simplifying things greatly but in the UK I believe failure to pass a budget is essentially similar to a vote of no confidence in the government and triggers an election. I could get behind something like that. If Congress can't pass a budget they should all be put at risk of getting voted out.

Another good solution would be to default to the previous budget until a new one is passed so there would be no such thing as a shutdown.
Click to expand...

they need some incentive, cut budget 25% including congress/senate/president salaries until resolved or some percentage a week every week until resolved, this makes it easier on workers that are affected because it isn't just nothing.

Either that or a cage match with each party picking a champion on each point of the budget they can't agree on. ;)
 
anderson750

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
I don't think he had a choice but to try and move this negotiation back onto the Dems. His oval office meeting and taking ownership of the shutdown was not something he was going to be able to move back onto the dems. He screwed up on that. Listening to his speech right now and his talk of a panel of border security officials to make recommendations could turn the negotiations.


We will see.
 
nnnnnate

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
It sounds like the funding is for everyone for 3 weeks rather than long term for everyone but border patrol or whatever that the dems wanted. I'm okay with it but its going to be for naught if they can't come up with something and it all shuts back down for another month. I honestly think that the airport slowdowns today back east were the last straw.
 
Noahfecks

Noahfecks

El Destructo!
Location
Glenwoody Springs, CO
It's just a political maneuver, remember crazy pants refused to negotiate until the government was re-opened. Now it's open and if they don't give him what he is asking for (or most of it), he can hang the blame on crazy pants and use his executive authority to fund whatever he wants all while taking the high ground. Ball is in crazy pants court, she gives in and Trumpster gets the wall (and a big campaign promise win) or he gets a wall and shows them to be obstructionists.
 
Houndoc

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
I will be extremely disappointed if Conservatives/Republicans allow him to get away with an emergency declaration to bypass Congress.

Whether you support the wall or not we all should object to blatant abuse of power.
 
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