U4WDA & USA-ALL: What happened to Canaan Mountain?

[scoutabout]

U4WDA and USA-ALL got involved with Jessop's Canaan Mt Sawmill Road suit a couple years ago. The last thing I heard was that USA-ALL was working on the situation with county commissioners, land managers and others in the area. The last news I remember seeing was that USA-ALL was promised action by the county after the Washington Country land use bill was put to rest (passed or defeated).

It's been passed for a while now, what has resulted from the promised follow up?

 

[Bear T]

Not sure about things from USA-All's end, But I have talked a bit with Dan Jessop. Right now, his lawyers are not moving forward until they receive more payment on the outstanding bill. We are working on some methods to help raise money to cover the $35,000 current bill.

I don't know the legal term, but they were granted a change of venue to not have the more liberal judge in the area on the case.

Until further notice, the case is at a stand still.

 

[Don B]

In the Jessop case, we were waiting on a decision on the appeal. The judge handling it sat on it for many months until he was able to pass it off to someone else. The rest is as Bear said.

As far as the Sawmill road itself. Last I heard was that Washington County would actively pursue an RS2477 claim but wanted the State of Utah to be involved as that would improve the chance of success in court. I haven't heard of anything new on it lately. I'll talk to some people and see if I can find out what if anything is happening.

 

[scoutabout]

I was deleting emails and ran across a message from Mike Swenson reporting on the results of USA-ALL's work on CMSR (remember the $1000 targeted donation from U4WDA). He indicated that as soon as the Washington County bill was done (one way or the other) that the county would assert the claim and USA-ALL would follow-up and make sure it happens. At the time, many wanted to fight for CMSR in the land use bill. We were told to wait and not cause waves so that USA-ALL could use their influence when the time was right. A year later, when is the time right?

 

[anderson750]

USA-All opposes the loss of the Canaan mountain road. Unfortunately right now this matter is in the hands of the Washington County commissioners to assert RS2477 ROW.

The following is my personal thoughts. I don't think that the legal battle involving Dan Jessop if he wins it will do anything to open the road. It is going to take the State and Washington County pursuing it under RS2477. Please correct me if I am wrong (and I am sure Steve will ), but to my knowledge, there has never been any decisions made on the federal level to recognize any RS2477 ROW. Also, I am drawing a blank on it right now, but what is the status of the road in the Washington County Lands bill? That my trump everything.

 

[Samuraiman]

Washington County has basically walked away from the Canaan Mountain Road. They had a meeting awhile back in regards to that, told us that the Statute of limitation's was up on opening the road when it was closed when Caanan was made a WSA. They have turned the case and the ROW over the the state, to see if they will follow up on the lawsuit. The best way to open the road is through a lawsuit or legislation. I find it ironic that maps printed after Caanan was made a WSA clearly showed the Sawmill road on them. These were maps printed by the BLM. We will see how it goes tommorrow night.

USA-All opposes the loss of the Canaan mountain road. Unfortunately right now this matter is in the hands of the Washington County commissioners to assert RS2477 ROW.

The following is my personal thoughts. I don't think that the legal battle involving Dan Jessop if he wins it will do anything to open the road. It is going to take the State and Washington County pursuing it under RS2477. Please correct me if I am wrong (and I am sure Steve will ), but to my knowledge, there has never been any decisions made on the federal level to recognize any RS2477 ROW. Also, I am drawing a blank on it right now, but what is the status of the road in the Washington County Lands bill? That my trump everything.

 

[anderson750]

The best way to open the road is through a lawsuit or legislation.

Was the road directly adressed in the Washington County lands bill or is open for consideration in the current RMP & travel plan?

 

[Don B]

Was the road directly adressed in the Washington County lands bill or is open for consideration in the current RMP & travel plan?

Canaan Mtn. was designated as wilderness in the land use bill. The sawmill road was not included. As far as the BLM is concerned, the road doesn't exist and it is not open for consideration in the new travel plan.

The only way to get this road back is for the State to gain title as a RS2477 ROW through the courts.

 

[scoutabout]

USA-All opposes the loss of the Canaan mountain road.

I support Jennifer Aniston running away with me to Hawaii, but that doesn't mean a damn thing either.

The following is my personal thoughts. I don't think that the legal battle involving Dan Jessop if he wins it will do anything to open the road.

Change "anything" to "much". The Jessop case isn't the issue, claiming the road and getting support from the county and state is the issue.

Please correct me if I am wrong (and I am sure Steve will ), but to my knowledge, there has never been any decisions made on the federal level to recognize any RS2477 ROW.

Right, never. So why waste time hoping for that?

Washington County has basically walked away from the Canaan Mountain Road. They had a meeting awhile back in regards to that, told us that the Statute of limitation's was up on opening the road when it was closed when Caanan was made a WSA.

Canaan Mtn. was designated as wilderness in the land use bill. The sawmill road was not included. As far as the BLM is concerned, the road doesn't exist and it is not open for consideration in the new travel plan.

So USA-ALL has lied and screwed us again. Awesome, but not surprising. When the Washington County Land Use bill was being pushed through, many people wanted to commit action to encourage a change in status on CMSR. USA-ALL held some special meetings with their "connections" in the county (probably Mike Swenson on a fake phone call in his mind), and told everyone not to do anything and to support the land use bill. We were told that if we did, the county would assert the 2477 claim when the land use bill reached a resolution (one way or the other).

When do we stop believing these assholes (the guys on "our" side) and start doing something productive? Same old bs.

 

[anderson750]

I support Jennifer Aniston running away with me to Hawaii, but that doesn't mean a damn thing either.

You crack me up. But that will never happen....I am sure you are not "adequate" enough for her.

So USA-ALL has lied and screwed us again. Awesome, but not surprising. When the Washington County Land Use bill was being pushed through, many people wanted to commit action to encourage a change in status on CMSR. USA-ALL held some special meetings with their "connections" in the county (probably Mike Swenson on a fake phone call in his mind), and told everyone not to do anything and to support the land use bill. We were told that if we did, the county would assert the 2477 claim when the land use bill reached a resolution (one way or the other).

When do we stop believing these assholes (the guys on "our" side) and start doing something productive? Same old bs.

You got a lot of balls calling me an asshole when you are to pussy to even meet face to face with someone. You don't know me, you have never met me. At one point I was interested in talking to you in person to get your views. I have offered to talk to you over the phone, meet over lunch on my nickel, but you choose to hide behind your computer. Everybody knows you have an ax to grind with USA-All and U4WDA and that is your own personal decision.

You seem to know all the solutions to the problems, so go start your own ****ing land use organization and start making a positive impact instead of trying to tear down the work that U4WDA and USA-All are doing.

I rarely lose my cool and I don't have time to waste on your distractions. This will be my last response to anything you post to me directly or indirectly.

 

[scoutabout]

You crack me up. But that will never happen....I am sure you are not "adequate" enough for her.

Probably.

You got a lot of balls calling me an asshole when you are to pussy to even meet face to face with someone. You don't know me, you have never met me. At one point I was interested in talking to you in person to get your views. I have offered to talk to you over the phone, meet over lunch on my nickel, but you choose to hide behind your computer. Everybody knows you have an ax to grind with USA-All and U4WDA and that is your own personal decision.

I haven't refused to talk to you. I guess you are a bs asshole. I wasn't accusing you of that before, but now I am.

My only personal axe is the complete and utter failure of these organizations AND the complete lack of will to change anything about it.

I rarely lose my cool and I don't have time to waste on your distractions. This will be my last response to anything you post to me directly or indirectly.

Looks like you fit in quite well with the current folks at USA-ALL. Refusing to discuss issues is about right for you guys. Rather sweep it under the rug and pretend to take the high road.

Status quo continues.

Got anything substantive to say about the issue I've raised or are you just going to cry and refuse to talk?

 

[scoutabout]

The thing that makes me farking sick about the lack of success in the land use fight is that people get so easily distracted attacking me personally instead of trying to address the issue.

Yes, I'm a horrible asshole of a person who is doomed to live a sad depressing life. Who gives a sh1t. Get over this fact and address the actual issues. Do something besides attacking your detractors.

 

[Jesser04]

Scoutabout for president:greg::greg:

 

[ID Bronco]

:amy::amy:

 

[Don B]

For the record;

I was with Mike Swensen when he came down to St. George for the first meeting with the County Commission about the Sawmill road. The Commision's position was that they would not take any public action on the road until the land use bill was either passed or dead. They said they would not move from that position and we could either like it or not like it, but if we started a public battle with the Commissioners and cost them the election, then we were really screwed.

Maybe USA-ALL possibly could have done more,
but it's unfair to say they lied to us or screwed us. We were really screwed 30 years ago when the County didn't take the proper action then.

 

[anderson750]

For the record;

I was with Mike Swensen when he came down to St. George for the first meeting with the County Commission about the Sawmill road. The Commision's position was that they would not take any public action on the road until the land use bill was either passed or dead. They said they would not move from that position and we could either like it or not like it, but if we started a public battle with the Commissioners and cost them the election, then we were really screwed.

Maybe USA-ALL possibly could have done more,
but it's unfair to say they lied to us or screwed us. We were really screwed 30 years ago when the County didn't take the proper action then.

Thanks for the clarification Don. It is always good to have input from somebody who was there to witness it first hand.

 

[scoutabout]

For the record;

I was with Mike Swensen when he came down to St. George for the first meeting with the County Commission about the Sawmill road. The Commision's position was that they would not take any public action on the road until the land use bill was either passed or dead. They said they would not move from that position and we could either like it or not like it, but if we started a public battle with the Commissioners and cost them the election, then we were really screwed.

Maybe USA-ALL possibly could have done more,
but it's unfair to say they lied to us or screwed us. We were really screwed 30 years ago when the County didn't take the proper action then.

Your two comments are at odds. If they weren't willing to address our concerns, why would we not seek to address the problem through change in representation? The short answer was that USA-ALL promised this was the best way to go about it. But, over a year later, there's no follow-through and no accountability. Same old bullshit story. Yes, they did lie. There's zero follow-through as promised. Yes, they did screw us. Their old line of "listen to us, we know best" has left us in the cold again.

You guys can keep making excuses for failures OR someone can start holding these orgs accountable until we A) see our orgs improve or B) get better orgs.

Continually making excuses and refusing to debate issues helps no one but Sierra Club and SUWA.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Not to join the dogpile but what gives with the amount of notice Usa-All feels is appropriate??

Just got an email from them about a land use debate for TOMORROW morning at 9am? For reals? Less than 24 hour notice on a pretty important meeting.



For those that didn't see the email yet:

"Utah Republican Senate Candidate Public Land Debate

Here is the debate location and times:
Be in your seats by 9:00 AM. Shooting will take place from 9-10 AM.


CANYON RIM PARK - 3100 SOUTH (GRACE STREET) 3250 EAST, SLC
Amphitheater with a round step-stage and seating for 650 located at the west end of the park. Parking for the west end is on the street and Monday through Saturday at the neighboring church.

In case of bad weather...


COTTONWOOD HEIGHTS CITY COUNCIL OFFICES - 1265 EAST FORT UNION BLVD.

Event Info
June 17, 2010
9-10 AM
3100 S 3250 E, SLC, UT."

 

[anderson750]

There were logistical issues to work out with both of the canidates and it has been down to the wire on whether this whole thing was going to come together.

 

[scoutabout]

There were logistical issues to work out with both of the canidates and it has been down to the wire on whether this whole thing was going to come together.

Doing things poorly is often worse than not doing it all. Although it has presented itself in a round-about way, this is what I'm trying to get at. As usual, my own method and the methods of those who just want to argue with me (instead of arguing about the issues) cloud the discussion.

This event has been listed on Bridgewater's site, the questions came "with the consultation of many state and county leaders and experts in land use issues" and USA-ALL only knew it would happen this afternoon?

We need a group like what USA-ALL strives to be. Having zero accountability and spreading thin resources across too many wasted efforts doesn't help us make USA-ALL a strong representative for our motorized access.