lhracing
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Layton, UT
Email sent.
Utah Senate Bill 51, and what it really says about Vintage Vehicles
- Thread starter TurboMinivan
- Start date
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
PLEASE keep the pressure up. They are starting to respond. I've got a bit of dialog going back and forth with one of the sponsor (Harper). Please keep emailing!
Houndoc
Registered User
- Location
- Grantsville
Hard law to enforce.
Seeing a car with vintage plates on the road is one thing but proving it is used daily takes a level of tracking none of us want.
As cars last longer, it certainly makes sense to change the definition.
TurboMinivan
Still plays with cars
- Location
- Lehi, UT
How is your conversation going, topic-wise? What angles are you playing?
TurboMinivan
Still plays with cars
- Location
- Lehi, UT
His concern is stated: We now have too many people getting vintage plates with the intent to bypass emission checks. This is a valid concern. My suggestion: rather than abolish a current law, why not choose to enforce it? If these vehicles are not to be used as general transportation, than put an annual mileage limit (of, say 3000 miles) which is verified at the annual registration renewal. Easy. Now the car show guys can still drive to their events, but the bypass crowd is handicapped.
Spork
Tin Foil Hat Equipped
- Location
- Saratoga Springs, UT
Stick me in the remove all emissions checks camp. I spend $20-$30 and sit for half hour to an hour to have the guy tell me my check engine light isn't on and send me on my way. I'm sure some bureaucrat's brother is making bank but it's a waste of time for the rest of us.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
My last reply...
”
Hello again Wayne,
I have many solutions. First, the original language could be amended to include an actual annual mileage cap. Some percentage of those with Vintage Tags may not even understand the language at current and your definition and their definition of “occasional transportation” could greatly differ. Give users an actual number to self police to start. Annual reporting could be implemented as a last resort. Perhaps an initial odometer reading at time of registration. Law enforcement could easily interpolate annual mileage if abuse is suspected in a particular case.
All vehicles 1967 and older already exempt, vintage or otherwise. It’s my opinion a rolling X years (perhaps 40 or 50) would make far more sense than the stagnant 1967. Vintage and collector cars are not 1967 and older, they are X years old and older by common approach. I understand why all cars are exempt at 1967, but that date is still completely arbitrary for vintage collector cars that see seldom annual use as evidenced by the current law that many fought to enact.
So all in we are talking 1.24% of all vehicles on the road (not including plated OHV and motorcycles?). A number of those (0.59%) are 1967 and older, so emissions will never apply. A number of the 1968-1992 are diesel and won’t have emissions in counties outside of Davis. And a great number of the remaining 1968-1992 will pass emissions just fine. Those that won’t may make repairs or quit driving the vehicle to car shows, parades, etc... or they’ll just register in a non-emissions county as many already do. So what is the real number of non emissions compliant vehicles this will police while impacting tens of thousands with added costs, burden and regulation? .1%? Perhaps less? Hence why many feel this is simply a money grab. I have no doubt some are abusing the current law, but they likely do it for the low annual cost more than the emissions. All answers we should have before any movement occurs on this law.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on these ideas. Should you be open to a phone conversation about this subject, I would love to arrange a call with representatives of statewide collector car and automobile associations. All are spooled up on the issue and I trust you’re hearing from many of them.
Kurt Williams
Sandy, Utah”
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Wayne replied...
”No this is not about money. I am not a fan of inspections. Older vehicles do emit more, especially if not maintained. I have no data formal data but do receive complaints about questionable vehicles. Let me take your suggestions and work with state agencies on implementation and challenges.
Thank you“
”No this is not about money. I am not a fan of inspections. Older vehicles do emit more, especially if not maintained. I have no data formal data but do receive complaints about questionable vehicles. Let me take your suggestions and work with state agencies on implementation and challenges.
Thank you“
DaveB
Long Jeep Fan
- Location
- Holladay, Utah
I have two vintage plated Jeeps. When I had them plated with regular plates I had to have them tested at the county facility every year because they don't have the factory motors in them. Every year they passed with flying colors because both Jeeps have newer engines in them with the appropriate emissions devices. The county inspector told me that they like it when the older engines are replaced, they don't like it when someone puts an older engine in a newer vehicle. I vintage plated mine for the lower cost and because I just got tired of having to take them to the county every year. These two Jeeps see very little mileage on the road. They are never driven in the winter because they are allergic to salt. We basically take them to RME events and occasional family Moab trips. I just went out and checked the odometers on them. My 73 Commando has 6522 miles on it in eleven years of use. The 84 CJ8 has similar mileage. @cruiseroutfit if you keep on messaging the sponsor bring up the case of the vehicles like mine that actually produce less emissions than they originally did. My Scrambler drove the testers crazy the first time I had it tested. They spent almost an hour re-running the tests because their equipment was reading zeros on their settings for the original carbureted 4 cylinder. They finally gave up and said it was the cleanest running Jeep they had ever seen.
Last edited:
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
Mag Corp is freakin horrible. Every single morning, I can watch the pollution rise from that plant and float east across the lake, filling Salt Lake and Davis County in a short amount of time.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
I used to deliver lime fines out there, i'm pretty sure those deliveries took 10+ years off my life. Every surface of all kinds of materials was completely corroded. I don't know how any of the structures were still standing. The various blues, greens, purple cloud plumes were always concerning to me.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Please email them with that intel. It's far better for them to hear it from you
DaveB
Long Jeep Fan
- Location
- Holladay, Utah
Just emailed Wayne.
Want to lessen pollution in the Wasatch front trying putting some sort of timing on the damn traffic lights. It’s laughable how poorly they are timed compared to other cities I visit. I’m not a smart man but the math isn’t hard to figure out timing from point a to point b at a set speed. I bet cars idling in the valley from piss poor timed lights on one day equates to more pollution than every vintage car in the state contributes in a 5 year period
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
DaveB
Long Jeep Fan
- Location
- Holladay, Utah
I got a fairly quick response. I don't know if he read what I sent but this what he replied back with:
Thank you for the information. Stay tuned for an updated proposal based on input I am receiving.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
Pretty similar to what I've recurved from both of my reps
TurboMinivan
Still plays with cars
- Location
- Lehi, UT
Wow, this morning my senator replied to my message.
It's not much, but it was a personal reply. At least I know he read my message.
EDIT: just in case it might help, I sent a reply. I thanked him for taking the time to respond. I also expressed my personal concern for our air quality, while giving further explanation of how taking my Vintage Vehicle (which sees less than 1,000 miles of use each year) off the road would not have any meaningful impact.
It's not much, but it was a personal reply. At least I know he read my message.
EDIT: just in case it might help, I sent a reply. I thanked him for taking the time to respond. I also expressed my personal concern for our air quality, while giving further explanation of how taking my Vintage Vehicle (which sees less than 1,000 miles of use each year) off the road would not have any meaningful impact.
Last edited:
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
SEMA is on the case too!