"weighted" tires and rockcrawling

[tuck]

you have a good point, rollovers are cool... however, in my eyes, I enjoy watching rigs scale obstacles that are difficult or impossible to walk... and for that reason I like the water.

I think I am most supportive of obstacles that might punish the use of watered down tires. Of course, these obstacles would probably punish those running 4 cylinders too... so good luck.

When it comes to unlimited class, I like to see things staying close to unlimited. I know forced articulation and rear steer have been removed or penalized. I don't know if I agree with that. Sure, it levels out the playing field, and gives the small-time guy a better chance of competing, but I think that it also hinders the progress of the technology of the sport.

Maybe there need to be more classes, close to unlimited, but more budget friendly with restrictions. But I think it's fun to have a fully unlimited class with all the bells and whistles. My $.02

 

[Vonski]

Originally posted by tuck
Of course, these obstacles would probably punish those running 4 cylinders too... so good luck.

Not sure if this was refering to the Unlimited Class rig we use, but it has a Vortec V6. Anywho, thanks for your opinion and feedback on this...

 

[creighton]

I don't think water is too much of a problem but it is a pain to have to have two sets of tires. $$$$$$$$ I do think Craig should not be allowed to have water in his tires! That boy is tough enough.

 

[Greg]

That's a difficult subject.... I guess those who can, do. Correct?

I personally think it's just another 'loop-hole' in the Competition Scene. Craig encourages those competing to find a way to beat the Rules. You beat the Rules and you'll beat the competition..... but, what's the cost?

Last weekend in MoabRocks the Mt. Logan rig broke a Tera 60 Knuckle. I'm pretty sure they were running water in their 40" MT/R's and combined with alot of throttle and a nasty obstacle, the Water caught up to them.

Honestly, to me this sounds like the Nitrous Argument in the Muscle Car world. People without it call it cheating when they loose to a car w/ NOS, but if they had it they would surely have used it to win the race.

Von, you and Carl should invest in a set of Alloy shafts for your frontend and beat them at their own game. You guys have the skills, now even the playing field.

 

[Andy]

Like I said, play as you will. I'm trying to swing some alloy shafts so I can do as I please, and really get after it like Lee and Parker.

 

[I Lean]

Originally posted by Greg
That's a difficult subject.... I guess those who can, do. Correct?

Last weekend in MoabRocks the Mt. Logan rig broke a Tera 60 Knuckle. I'm pretty sure they were running water in their 40" MT/R's and combined with alot of throttle and a nasty obstacle, the Water caught up to them.

Von, you and Carl should invest in a set of Alloy shafts for your frontend and beat them at their own game. You guys have the skills, now even the playing field.

That's exactly the problem though. Even with alloy shafts, do you really think my Toyota axle (or knuckle) is comparable in strength to the Tera60 that broke last weekend?

I'd like to give water a try, but I think I'm probably pushing the limits of my axles already, where reliability is concerned.

 

[Greg]

Yeah, you're probably right. I wonder what the limiting point would be. I think anyone running water in their tires needs to be careful with how they drive. You'd have to change your entire style of driving to make up for the gain..... Lots of Throttle, getting Bound up and bouncing played a huge part in Mt Logan breaking their Knuckle. You can't get 'stupid' with water.....

Dean Bullock busted a CTM while doing a front dig, playing with water in his 35" Krawlers.....

You never know untill you try!

 

[Caleb]

this is a tough subject...but I see it as them beating the rules...anyone and everyone knows that the guys that have been into the comps for a while have all kinds of little tricks and they are very sneaky...the weight limit (as was said earlier) will also limit tire size...but form what I have seen bigger isn;t always better...I have yet to see a rig with 40"+ tires do very well in the UROC series...I think most the guys that do well are running around a 37" tire...Curt H. said he didn;t like the new 39" Krawlers with such a light rig...I have heard the same thing form a few others...back to my point by limiting tire size I think you are defeating the purpose of the unlimited class...

I think you guys need to get ahold of some of the new Crane Knuckles and do a hybred axle...CTM Shafts and Joints(I know, when you win the lottery)

 

[fergusor]

Originally posted by Greg
Last weekend in MoabRocks the Mt. Logan rig broke a Tera 60 Knuckle. I'm pretty sure they were running water in their 40" MT/R's and combined with alot of throttle and a nasty obstacle, the Water caught up to them.

In St George comp I was behind Skinny from Campbell Ent in the line up. I let him use my hi lift that weekend because he kept braking the front end parts(axles, u-joints and steering arm). I dont know if he was running water, but he was running the mtr 40's and they did alot of carnage. It was funny to see him at the end of the last gate and he had the front end apart fixing the d60. I just think 40's make it so there is no give and something has to give.

 

[Vonski]

Thanks for all the input guys... I think you'll be hearing more about this topic in the future.

Where the hell is Sucka on this one??? I was kinda wondering what his take is on this issue and whether he's been running water (or if he'll tell us ).

Oh, Brandon?...

 

[pokeyYJ]

Heres a question, what ratio of water to air is everyone running? Because I was under the impression that water was non-compressable, and it seems that having tires full of water would hamper the tires ability to conform to rocks and other things on the obstacle. One other question, once all that wieght of the water is moving, how do you stop it?

 

[BlackSheep]

Originally posted by pokeyYJ
Heres a question, what ratio of water to air is everyone running? Because I was under the impression that water was non-compressable, and it seems that having tires full of water would hamper the tires ability to conform to rocks and other things on the obstacle. One other question, once all that wieght of the water is moving, how do you stop it?

the ratio isn't that big of a deal since the air is compressible. no matter how much water you have in the tire, 10psi is still 10 psi.

I do think you could get too much water in there though, and of course, you could have some but not enough to do anything with.

I'll have to research the agricultural tire use of water in the tires. Part of it is to spread the load to decrease the amount of damage to the crops. With the radial ag tires that are out, the load is better distributed to aid in the reduction of crop damage, thus reducing or eliminating the need for the additional weight of the water in the tires.

 

[Bart]

I heard about the water trick last year. It's taken me this long to want to try it. I don't think it would make that much difference to put a weight control on tires. If someone wants to run water, let them. Like anything else, it helps sometimes and hurts others.

As to the question of conforming to rocks, water helps. It evenly displaces to get maximum traction but the biggest advantage is it virtually eleminates deflection (tire roll in transition).

Bart

 

[Greg]

Originally posted by pokeyYJ
Heres a question, what ratio of water to air is everyone running? Because I was under the impression that water was non-compressable, and it seems that having tires full of water would hamper the tires ability to conform to rocks and other things on the obstacle. One other question, once all that wieght of the water is moving, how do you stop it?

I understood that you fill the tire 3/4 the way full.... any less, and it's not beneficial enough.

 

[bobdog]

Originally posted by Greg


I understood that you fill the tire 3/4 the way full.... any less, and it's not beneficial enough.

Wow I was picturing an inch or two Thats got to weigh a ton when you are talking about a 37-38" tire. Thats gotta make your rig feel like its running in concrete boots. Whats next, mercury?

 

[Parker]

Originally posted by Greg
That's a difficult subject.... I guess those who can, do. Correct?


Last weekend in MoabRocks the Mt. Logan rig broke a Tera 60 Knuckle. I'm pretty sure they were running water in their 40" MT/R's and combined with alot of throttle and a nasty obstacle, the Water caught up to them.

Hehehe... that was probably the best place on the Rim to peel your knuckle off your housing, eh Greg? When the tire fell off into the bottomless hole it took six of us to lift it back out... that didn't rule at all. Curtis, myself and Nate along w/ the 40" Goodyear all fit nicely in this hole, it was huge. Nate said he could feel the whole tire driving itself into the hole, he wanted to make it, so he gave her the onion and that's when the carnage took place. It was more of a combination of details then just because the tire had a bit of h2o in it.

On to the subject of limits (specifically tire weight limits), it's called "unlimited" for a reason. If you want everyone to have the same advantages and disadvantages then the stock class is for you. If new ideas and progression in the sport interests you, then stick with no limits and allow people to come up w/ crazy new thoughts and ideas and let our sport grow. Just my humble opinion...

 

[sukaB]

None of our rigs will ever run rear steer and I havent been sold on water.......Yet
Hawkins wants me to try it but I'm sceptical and don't want the stress on my Moser's...
I remember a day when people used to worry about Swampers weighing to much!!!!?

 

[RockMonkey]

I wonder how many of the top ten in Legends Class was running water... I betcha Greg knows if Chris Holley was... Amy prolly was, don't know about Mike Bailey, or the Sissons. Anybody got any info? For the record, I was not.

 

[sukaB]

I fail to see how water could make that much of a difference..
Good or bad...
IF and I say IF you can drive!!!!!!!!

 

[Greg]

Originally posted by RockMonkey
I wonder how many of the top ten in Legends Class was running water... I betcha Greg knows if Chris Holley was... Amy prolly was, don't know about Mike Bailey, or the Sissons. Anybody got any info? For the record, I was not.

AFAIK, nobody in Legends does. You really need a Dana 60 to run water, a 44 w/ CTM's and Alloy Shafts is questionable.