What about SUWA?

[OREGON85]

I'm still kind of new to Utah so I feel this is a legitimate question. All I've heard about SUWA is they are bad, nothing specific. I looked at their web site and all it said is the want designated routes that "minimizes conflicts with other users and protects the magnificent resource of Utah's wild redrock country." Pretty vague, so I'm still in the dark. Enlighten me with specifics and no hearsay.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

They are fundemental behind the ARWA, which would close down route access. Additionally they proposed massive OHV closures in their BLM RMP alternative proposals. They take a no compromise stance and choose to view RS2477 and right of way laws as 'archaic' and 'tools for abuse'. If and when they were willing to work with OHV groups to protect access and the environment at the same time I think they would be successful, but sadly the idea of Wilderness is a far bigger fund raising activity then Wilderness itself and when you have a full time staff of 15? 20? employees there is some CYA in play.

 

[OREGON85]

What does CYA and RMP mean?

 

[Spork]

What does CYA and RMP mean?

CYA = cover your A$$
RMP = Resource management plan (I think)

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Yup.

 

[Bart]

They are heavily funded with funds from back east, from people that have never set foot in Utah, but want a say in how it's managed. They use misleading propaganda to sell their point saying that they are protecting Utah from Utahns because we want to put an oil rig and a Wall Mart in every scenic sight and Wilderness Study Area. They lie!

 

[Devel]

They are heavily funded with funds from back east, from people that have never set foot in Utah, but want a say in how it's managed. They use misleading propaganda to sell their point saying that they are protecting Utah from Utahns because we want to put an oil rig and a Wall Mart in every scenic sight and Wilderness Study Area. They lie!

ya we dont put an oil rig on every scenic sight!

 

[solidfrontaxle]

I prefer when the oil rigs are in scenic places. Makes work more interesting.


Though I can't think of a single spot in Utah (maybe downtown ogden?) that wouldn't be a scenic spot for a rig. Utah rocks.

Oil Rigs are scinic themselves too.



But what SUWA and the people who supporters don't know (or refuse to acknowledge) is that that oil rigs are generally only in one spot for a short period of time (one or two weeks), they have a miniscule amount of environmental damage while there and once they're gone you'd hardly notice. A cabin property or homestead is more intrusive and destructive. Seriously. Drive down 9-Mile canyon. They've been drilling the piss out of that area for years and there is NOBODY that can say that it isn't beautiful or even close to being destroyed.

 

[scoutabout]

I looked at their web site and all it said is the want designated routes that "minimizes conflicts with other users and protects the magnificent resource of Utah's wild redrock country."

Translation:

SUWA would like to close 85% of existing routes enjoyed by motorized recreationists across Utah. That's based on their own proposals, maps and campaigns such as ARWA.

That's why most motorized users would consider SUWA "bad". Myself among them.

 

[Cherokeester]

They hide in the bushes and take pictures when you are on the trails in Moab. A little un-nerving really.

 

[jackjoh]

I am sure you have heard, FOLLOW THE MONEY, as has been proven most all green groups are money makers. SUWA was a grass roots organization started about 1990. When it was taken over by Hansjorg Wyss and his East Coast megabucks group in 1996 they had about 20,000 members. According to the Tribune they now have about 14,600 of which only 3100 are Utah residents so some people are wising up. They have assets of between $5 million and $6 Million and have spent approximately $2 million a year for the last 4 years to close public access to public lands through Wilderness legislation. During this period of time they had two board members, Bert Fingerhut and Mark Ristow, convicted of Bank Fraud. In 2007 they had a staff of 20 that did nothing but try to keep the public out of Public Lands. In 2007 their board consisted of 7 Utahan's out of 12 members. A few years ago they only had 5 Utahan's on their board.

As stated in the above quotes by many members: they exist to make money, to keep the public out of Public Lands, to keep mineral exploration out of Utah which makes us Dependant on foreign oil etc.,
And I say for what purpose? You figure it out.

 

[bradm]

I am sure you have heard, FOLLOW THE MONEY, as has been proven most all green groups are money makers. SUWA was a grass roots organization started about 1990. When it was taken over by Hansjorg Wyss and his East Coast megabucks group in 1996 they had about 20,000 members. According to the Tribune they now have about 14,600 of which only 3100 are Utah residents so some people are wising up. They have assets of between $5 million and $6 Million and have spent approximately $2 million a year for the last 4 years to close public access to public lands through Wilderness legislation. During this period of time they had two board members, Bert Fingerhut and Mark Ristow, convicted of Bank Fraud. In 2007 they had a staff of 20 that did nothing but try to keep the public out of Public Lands. In 2007 their board consisted of 7 Utahan's out of 12 members. A few years ago they only had 5 Utahan's on their board.

As stated in the above quotes by many members: they exist to make money, to keep the public out of Public Lands, to keep mineral exploration out of Utah which makes us Dependant on foreign oil etc.,
And I say for what purpose? You figure it out.

EXCELLENT points and info!!

 

[OREGON85]

I am sure you have heard, FOLLOW THE MONEY, as has been proven most all green groups are money makers. SUWA was a grass roots organization started about 1990. When it was taken over by Hansjorg Wyss and his East Coast megabucks group in 1996 they had about 20,000 members. According to the Tribune they now have about 14,600 of which only 3100 are Utah residents so some people are wising up. They have assets of between $5 million and $6 Million and have spent approximately $2 million a year for the last 4 years to close public access to public lands through Wilderness legislation. During this period of time they had two board members, Bert Fingerhut and Mark Ristow, convicted of Bank Fraud. In 2007 they had a staff of 20 that did nothing but try to keep the public out of Public Lands. In 2007 their board consisted of 7 Utahan's out of 12 members. A few years ago they only had 5 Utahan's on their board.

As stated in the above quotes by many members: they exist to make money, to keep the public out of Public Lands, to keep mineral exploration out of Utah which makes us Dependant on foreign oil etc.,
And I say for what purpose? You figure it out.

That's the kind of information I am looking for. Any other note worthy facts?

 

[SAMI]

Tree huggers smell bad

 

[OREGON85]

http://www.undueinfluence.com/suwa.htm

This is interesting.

 

[Bodine]

SUWA is the al qaeda or taliban of Utah they do what they do for only themselves and their beliefs at the cost of the rest of the public and the State. Since you are new to Utah the Salt Lake Lib (tribune) doesn't help either. I certainly don't support them anyway.

 

[OREGON85]

I wrote this to the green guy at backcountry.com. His response is below. Does anyone have any input on the part of his response marked in red? I was thinking of starting with pointing out that the America's Red Rock Wilderness Act would eliminate mountain biking and off-roading in most of Moab, siting the bill its self. I need more concrete facts!

My email:
Scott,
Thanks for the clarification. As skier and mountain biker I have a great interest in Backcountry.com because it is one of the best sources for gear. In addition to mountain biking and skiing I enjoy hiking, backpacking, and off-roading. Naturally, since all of my hobbies take place outdoors I have a great concern for preserving the wonderful environment we enjoy in Utah. I consider myself an environmentalist and spend numerous hours each year trying to preserve my local environment. I also actively support Tread Lightly which promotes "responsible outdoor recreation through ethics education and stewardship" and U4WDA which leads massive efforts to preserve the environment by cleaning up messes made by irresponsible users and education. Both are examples of organizations which use their funding to make a difference. SUWA is an organization which receives enormous funding, especially from out of state sources, but does nothing tangible to improve the outdoors. They are simply an extremist organization which lobbies for extensive closure of recreational areas in Southern Utah. Certainly, I agree that off road use and oil drilling should not take place unrestrained, but SUWA goes far beyond reasonable restraint. I personally believe that I have a responsibility to discontinue my patronage of Backcountry.com because of their support for SUWA. While I may be among a minority in my discontinued patronage, I am not alone. I hope that for the sake of public lands users and your customers that you will reconsider your donations to SUWA. Thank you for your time and consideration of my views. I hope to resume patronage of Backcountry.com some time, but for now I cannot.

Kyle Roerig

Response:

Kyle,
We've heard people use the words "extremist" etc with regards to SUWA before, but have yet to see any factual presentation of the argument.
If this is the case, please provide supporting information so that we may resolve this potential conflict of interest.

We are not interested in supporting groups that perform environmental terrorism a la ELF.
However, SUWA has put forth considerable effort to push the America's Red Rock Wilderness Act which we do support.

The only potentially derogatory information I've found is that a few of the board members were, according to reports, involved in securities fraud, though that was unrelated to their activities at SUWA.

Looking forward to enlightment.
Thanks,
-scott

--
< Backcountry.com >

Vendor Integration Engineer
Green Team Co-Chair

 

[Cody]

according to reports? you mean, the reports of their indictment and conviction of the largest securities fraud in US history? lol


you could touch on their survey they used to claim Utah's overwhelming support for the ARWA, and how it consisted of, at best, one leading question, and at worst one leading question given to a highly specific target audience whom they knew wouldn't ask any further questions..


..you could touch on their inclusion of local Moab businesses in a newspaper campaign claiming support of SUWA, and their subsequent withdrawal and apology after being publicly called out by companies who were included but don't support them...

or the "citizens inventory" is a good one....

...or you could touch on paid delegates freely admitting to using pictures of ATV tracks in an area of Arizonaa sdfaklsdjklfasdklfjaskldf jklasdfjklasjkdlfjklasjkdlfjklasd

give me a bit. I'll take this one for you.

 

[Bart]

Sounds very much like my correspondence with REI when I had them pull my membership.

 

[Caleb]

I wrote this to the green guy at backcountry.com. His response is below. Does anyone have any input on the part of his response marked in red? I was thinking of starting with pointing out that the America's Red Rock Wilderness Act would eliminate mountain biking and off-roading in most of Moab, siting the bill its self. I need more concrete facts!

My email:
Scott,
Thanks for the clarification. As skier and mountain biker I have a great interest in Backcountry.com because it is one of the best sources for gear. In addition to mountain biking and skiing I enjoy hiking, backpacking, and off-roading. Naturally, since all of my hobbies take place outdoors I have a great concern for preserving the wonderful environment we enjoy in Utah. I consider myself an environmentalist and spend numerous hours each year trying to preserve my local environment. I also actively support Tread Lightly which promotes "responsible outdoor recreation through ethics education and stewardship" and U4WDA which leads massive efforts to preserve the environment by cleaning up messes made by irresponsible users and education. Both are examples of organizations which use their funding to make a difference. SUWA is an organization which receives enormous funding, especially from out of state sources, but does nothing tangible to improve the outdoors. They are simply an extremist organization which lobbies for extensive closure of recreational areas in Southern Utah. Certainly, I agree that off road use and oil drilling should not take place unrestrained, but SUWA goes far beyond reasonable restraint. I personally believe that I have a responsibility to discontinue my patronage of Backcountry.com because of their support for SUWA. While I may be among a minority in my discontinued patronage, I am not alone. I hope that for the sake of public lands users and your customers that you will reconsider your donations to SUWA. Thank you for your time and consideration of my views. I hope to resume patronage of Backcountry.com some time, but for now I cannot.

Kyle Roerig

Response:

Kyle,
We've heard people use the words "extremist" etc with regards to SUWA before, but have yet to see any factual presentation of the argument.
If this is the case, please provide supporting information so that we may resolve this potential conflict of interest.

We are not interested in supporting groups that perform environmental terrorism a la ELF.
However, SUWA has put forth considerable effort to push the America's Red Rock Wilderness Act which we do support.

The only potentially derogatory information I've found is that a few of the board members were, according to reports, involved in securities fraud, though that was unrelated to their activities at SUWA.

Looking forward to enlightment.
Thanks,
-scott

--
< Backcountry.com >

Vendor Integration Engineer
Green Team Co-Chair

There's a couple problems with this. First, the fact that they support the Red Rock Wilderness Act proves this is a loosing battle with them. Second, the way he concluded his letter Looking forward to enlightment (it's misspelled BTW ) to me says he's being a sarcastic smart ass that you are not going to change his views. I don't doubt one bit that he's a card carrying SUWA member.