What do you suggest we do for Healthcare?

[JackKeslerCustoms]

There's a lot of talk about the socialization of our country, and the uprising about killing the current health care bill. My question is what can we do to make our system better?

I guess it comes down to whether you believe that health care is a right. Right now Salt Lake County is trying to pass off an additional tax on property owners to cover the cost of Police services. The county sheriff's office is no more, and there is a Unified Police Department instead. The Fire Department has already done this, and receives it's funding from the county, from the portion of property taxes that used to fund the counties Fire Department. But for the Police Department, the county has proposed that there be an additional property tax to cover cost. Right, wrong or indifferent, the funding will come from taxes. Should we privatize the Police and Fire Departments? You can always make arguments that the police or fire departments aren't the most efficient ways to spend our money, but should people be able to opt out of paying for them? And if so, should people be treated differently, or denied coverage by them?

 

[Tacoma]

Reform the insurance industry. Make it illegal to charge $20 for a pill that retails for $2. Things like that.

The solution is not going to be what's been proposed, any way you cut it. In NO place that it's been tried, does it work. People are paying through the nose in Canada and GB to get private care.

Things definitely need to change, but not like that.

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

True! Canada and Brittan have terrible systems, we do not want to end up like that.

 

[Herzog]

Reform the insurance industry. Make it illegal to charge $20 for a pill that retails for $2. Things like that.

That still requires gov't intervention. If it's a free market, then the competition will reduce the cost of said pill. The drug industry really is kind of interesting though. They make most of their money from dr's peddling the drugs out to people who don't really need them anyways. Basically through propaganda.

 

[CJ Matt]

Open up competition in the insurance industry.

Lower prescription drug costs. Why are our citizens going across the border for cheaper medicine? Our government pays drug companies tons of money for research and they get the benefits by charging us ridiculous amounts for drugs.

Cut down on insurance fraud and hit those committing with harsh penalties.

Any one that thinks there is such a thing as free health care is a fool. We will all pay for it with taxes. Look at the countries that have socialized medicine and the amount they pay in taxes. Their systems are a mess too.

Any one that wants the government to run healthcare is a bigger fool. Most of the government run entities would be bankrupt if they were companies. Look at the Post Office. Heck the country would be bankrupt!

The concerns over illegals getting or not getting free health care is a joke! They get it now and whether it is granted or not they would not be turned away.

Our system is flawed and I am no expert but the current ideas and backdoor dealings are bad for our country.

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

Not only are they charging $20 for the pill, they have it written into law that medicare and medicaid cannot negotiate prices for the pill, contributing to the government run health care plans being as expensive as they could possibly be. And Shane, I agree with you that for the free market to work, government needs to stay completely out of the way. But that won't happen. How outraged would people be if hospitals were turning people out into a back alley to die because they had no means of paying for the services? What do you do with those people who will never buy insurance, but will turn up at the ER when they are in desperate need?

 

[ricsrx]

Any one that wants the government to run healthcare is a bigger fool. Most of the government run entities would be bankrupt if they were companies. Look at the Post Office. Heck the country would be bankrupt!

.

I am afraid I am going to have to correct you on your assumption that the Post office is subsidized by government taxes.
The truth to the matter is that the government has required the post office to pay them millions of dollars every year. And the year 2009 is the first year that they have not been able to fulfill that dept in full,
So the government has let the post office out of an obligation of paying millions to the retiree’s health care fund so they can pay in to the government slush fund.

I will be the first to admit that the Post office is the most inefficient backward retarded shit hole I have ever work at, but even being least expensive in first class mail costs in the world, they make a lot of money (all of their money) off of revenue mail (junk mail).
so when the economy picks back up and the companies start to advertise again....we will be back in the money.
Sorry for steeling the thread...

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

Open up competition in the insurance industry.

Lower prescription drug costs. Why are our citizens going across the border for cheaper medicine? Our government pays drug companies tons of money for research and they get the benefits by charging us ridiculous amounts for drugs.

Cut down on insurance fraud and hit those committing with harsh penalties.

Any one that thinks there is such a thing as free health care is a fool. We will all pay for it with taxes. Look at the countries that have socialized medicine and the amount they pay in taxes. Their systems are a mess too.

Any one that wants the government to run healthcare is a bigger fool. Most of the government run entities would be bankrupt if they were companies. Look at the Post Office. Heck the country would be bankrupt!

The concerns over illegals getting or not getting free health care is a joke! They get it now and whether it is granted or not they would not be turned away.

Our system is flawed and I am no expert but the current ideas and backdoor dealings are bad for our country.

Some good points.

How would you create competition for the insurance companies? Don't we already have that? The insurance companies contract with the health care providers, like IHC, and negotiate prices for services. The more insured's they have, the better deal they get on the services. One insurance company can pay $1,000 for an appendectomy while another provider is charged $3500 for the same surgery. But you can't regulate the costs of the procedures without government intervention.

I agree with you on the prescription drug cost. Most drug companies spend 4X the amount on advertising that they do on R&D. How many years ago was it that it was made legal for the drugs to be advertised directly to the public? It wasn't long ago.

There is no such thing as free health care. Someone has to pay for it. As far as other countries systems, they are not all bad. Some are better that others, but you have to get specific with other countries, and their systems, and their variety of social programs, not just healthcare, that contribute to the tax rate. My sister in law gets 3 YEARS maternity leave. The first year paid at 100% of her wages, the second at 80%, and the third at $70%. And yes it is paid for, along with their healthcare, in their 35% income taxes that they pay. (That's Lithuania in case you were wondering)

The post office is an interesting analogy, because it started as a government entity, then somewhat privatized, but still it is the only delivery service that is required by the government to deliver to everyone. Any of the other private delivery services do not have to. That actually relates somewhat to the situation, but it's hard to make the link between health care and delivering mail. And isn't our country pretty much bankrupt anyway? They just had to increase the debt ceiling so that we could borrow more.

The issue with illegals is a border issue. As long as they show up at the ER, they will be given basic, life sustaining treatment. POW's get medical treatment, there is no way anyone in a hospital will deny a human being care. And yes, then the cost is passed on to the rest of us.

Our system is flawed. It's also pretty good, for most people. My biggest problem with this whole thing IS the backdoor deals. I think they are going to get it passed, and I hope that they can make it better.

 

[jackjoh]

Look at government run agencies and realize that we are the one's that voted them into office.
IMO
Bureau of Indian Affairs. First example of a socialist failure in this country.
Post Office
Federal Researve
Federal Aviation Administration
Medicare, Medicaid, Prescriptions
Food stamps, School lunch etc.
And the worst of all Schools. Just take a look at where most of your taxes go.

Because of the greed of men this will continue until the voters start voting term limits to professional politicians by using the vote.

 

[GOAT]

If it's a free market, then the competition will reduce the cost of said pill.

Big IF on that one there. Capitalism as long as it works for me, then the hands are out.....er I mean lobbyist

Open up competition in the insurance industry.

L.

That was the one of the only things I liked in the obama bill, and that got axed. Government option.

Blaaahhhh

 

[unltd1]

Big IF on that one there. Capitalism as long as it works for me, then the hands are out.....er I mean lobbyist




That was the one of the only things I liked in the obama bill, and that got axed. Government option.

Blaaahhhh

Obama's bill also wanted to allow people to legally buy their prescription drugs from outside the US, and that got taken out. The current version would immediately lower the cost of prescriptions for senior citizens. It will also allow recent college graduates who cannot find work, due to the 10% unemployment rate, to remain on their parents' health care up to the age 27. It also requires private health insurance companies to disclose how much of your premiums actually go towards providing your care, and how much they just keep for their own profit. It also guarantees that you cannot be denied coverage from any health insurance provider, regardless of any pre-existing condition.


How dare they!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

True, that last part just means that insurance companies will charge more than you make in a year to cover you and your "pre-existing condition", but we're not splitting hairs here...

I find it interesting that conservative Christians are against wanting everyone to have healthcare:

"He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God." Proverbs 14:31

"The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern." Proverbs 29:7

"If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:17-18


Now, I'm no Christian, but considering this is their book, the infallible word of their god, I find it surprising how quickly they they skim past those passages when it's convenient...

 

[Herzog]

I'm not religious and I don't approve of the bill. I don't think religion has anything to do with it, IMO.

 

[unltd1]

I'm not religious and I don't approve of the bill. I don't think religion has anything to do with it, IMO.

Herzog.....................don't lie.


The lord is deep, deep within ye.......

 

[GOAT]

"He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God." Proverbs 14:31

"The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern." Proverbs 29:7

"If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:17-18


=..

gee thanks jenn. I think that's the most scripture i've read in my entire life........i need to go lay down.



Either way, with the current system, if youre sick, you're F'd. Sure you cannot be refused treatment but you have to wait until youre on deaths door to get it. Afterward you pay the rest of your life however short it may be. theres no preventive treatment, just wait until its too late.

 

[unltd1]

gee thanks jenn. I think that's the most scripture i've read in my entire life........i need to go lay down.



Either way, with the current system, if youre sick, you're F'd. Sure you cannot be refused treatment but you have to wait until youre on deaths door to get it. Afterward you pay the rest of your life however short it may be. theres no preventive treatment, just wait until its too late.

Everyone needs to understand that Goat is a liar...


...he's currently lying down, and has been in such a position for the past hour and a half.

This country is corrupt corrupt corrupt corrupt corrupt....

Quote from the FDA

"It is not legal to bring back -- or receive by mail order- foreign made versions of U.S. made drugs, unless there are circumstances which justify the purchase. Merely buying to save money is not legal justification."

Even if the medicine was made in the US and shipped to Canada, you can't go to Canada and buy that exact same medicine. You HAVE to buy it in the US and pay whatever they want to charge. Some prescription medication is 70% more expensive in the US than Canada or Mexico, and it's MADE HERE!!!

 

[unltd1]

It's ILLEGAL to save money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JL Rockies]

It's not the Fed's job to fix healthcare. If the Fed wants to take on healthcare, they must do it constitutionally. Write up a healthcare amendment and go through the amendment process which has to be ratified by a 2/3 majority of the states. This will never happen so the Fed is sliming it's way though loopholes in closed door meetings. It's not about healthcare, it's about a power grab.

 

[waynehartwig]

I am afraid I am going to have to correct you on your assumption that the Post office is subsidized by government taxes.
The truth to the matter is that the government has required the post office to pay them millions of dollars every year. And the year 2009 is the first year that they have not been able to fulfill that dept in full,
So the government has let the post office out of an obligation of paying millions to the retiree’s health care fund so they can pay in to the government slush fund.

I will be the first to admit that the Post office is the most inefficient backward retarded shit hole I have ever work at, but even being least expensive in first class mail costs in the world, they make a lot of money (all of their money) off of revenue mail (junk mail).
so when the economy picks back up and the companies start to advertise again....we will be back in the money.
Sorry for steeling the thread...

Exactly! USPS get's nothing from your taxes or etc. They are 100% self sufficient off the stamp and etc. Gratned, the unions have fawked it up royally, but.... Even my wife is considered a federal law enforcement officer to the T, but the post office pays her salary out of revenue IT generates, not what comes out of your taxes.



As for health care, not sure what to do to fix it. But the first thing is to take gvt completely out of it like Herzog said. Most states already have subsidized health care taht you can apply for if you are low income. I remember I was in a car accident back in 91 and no health care. My hospital bill was over $300k. I had to pay $18 for having my cable tv turned on 2 days - the state paid the rest.

The wrong answer is to completely toss out what we have and completely make a new one, regardless if it's gvt ran or not. Fix what we already have first.

 

[GOAT]

. It's not about healthcare, it's about a power grab.

and the insurance companies figured this out long ago.everyone wants a cut.

 

[GOAT]

Exactly! USPS get's nothing from your taxes or etc. They are 100% self sufficient off the stamp and etc. Gratned, the unions have fawked it up royally, but.... Even my wife is considered a federal law enforcement officer to the T, but the post office pays her salary out of revenue IT generates, not what comes out of your taxes.
.

represent!!