What do you suggest we do for Healthcare?

[CJ Matt]

I get free health care but still have a strong opinion about what is going on. Before you get all angry about how I get free healthcare I will let you know that I get it for putting a uniform on every day. Active Duty Air Force.

 

[Will3161]

I get free health care but still have a strong opinion about what is going on. Before you get all angry about how I get free healthcare I will let you know that I get it for putting a uniform on every day. Active Duty Air Force.

From experience, your healthcare isn't free, its a benefit and part of your compensation. Don't say its free and don't believe it when they tell you. I served active duty and am in the Air National Guard now, so I know.

Anyway, the real problem with America and healthcare is 3 parts, I think. Number one, America is full of nasty unhealthy people who don't take care of themselves (no, this isn't everybody). They say obesity is a poor man's epidemic because of crappy food. No, I can buy cheap good food any day of the week, and do some push-ups, sit-ups, and run a mile everyday and keep in shape too. so that's BS.

Two, the vast majority of Americans don't care, as long you keep out of their Kool-Aid. The middle class and working class won't care if you tax the wealthy, and vice versa. But, the wealthy own stuff; more to the point when the corporations get taxed, who do you think suffers? Layoffs, reduced health insurance, etc. result.

Three, insurance companies need to be reigned in. Pre-existing means insurance risk. So, they don't insure. I really don't know the best answer here, but I can almost guarantee that if insurance is Mandatory then insurance, unregulated will charge whatever they want.

 

[ID Bronco]

Man, that was a brutal read. Herzog said it best, There should be fair market competition. It is not constitutional. I have not researched the entire healthcare system so I cannot give anyone a full recommendation. None of us can. First Medicare and medicade are horrible. Fraud is rampant, abuse is commonplace, by both doctors and bums who choose to do nothing and reap the free rewards. Everyone keeps calling it a "crisis" on the news. It is not sustainable. I understand that with 5 kids, my wife and my self. But it is not a "crisis". The real Crisis now is unemployment, Killing terrorists, and things that are at our door. My company pays a portion of my personal health insurance. I pay part. I cannot afford to have my family on the plan too. We have a dog crap catastrophic policy for them. It sucks, paying the doctor everytime they have a sniffle, but I do it. I would be covered to some extent if something major went wrong (unless there is a way out in the fine print) but day to day stuff I pay for.

Old people, kids with crappy parents, etc are always going to need help, but donations, churches, good kind people will do a lot if given their taxes back and the opportunity to give freely, not forced.

Oh, its probably best to stay out of the religios debate, but to say Christians are going against their religion or the Bible by not giving free everything to everyone is silly. Again, give them the power to give! Cut the taxes to constitutional programs and people can afford to give. Ever wonder why when you are raising money you usually make more when you ask for a donation rather than a specific charge? People will surprise you.

 

[waynehartwig]

not sure about that one(see caveman comment in MA thread). Voters are angry, frustrated and also clearly uneducated on issues at hand. The election of a black man named barack hussein obama in breadbasket america is a pretty good example of this. During the 04' election, no way was Obama getting elected. By the second W term, barney the dinosaur could have won. We are seeing that unfocused frustration seeping into the polling booths again. For the record, I didn't vote for either candidate in 08, but think we were long overdue for somebody OTW to take a turn at the helm.

Oh, and from what I understand MA has government mandated healthcare where nearly 90% of residents have coverage. It is also of my understanding, a creation of Romney. I don't think the voters of MA care about how their rep votes on healthcare, they're covered.


i could be wrong

I heard numbers closer to 98%, I think from Brown himself? But I don't know any of the details on it. Like do the people want it, who's paying for it, etc.etc.etc.etc.

 

[waynehartwig]

Man, that was a brutal read. Herzog said it best, There should be fair market competition. It is not constitutional. I have not researched the entire healthcare system so I cannot give anyone a full recommendation. None of us can. First Medicare and medicade are horrible. Fraud is rampant, abuse is commonplace, by both doctors and bums who choose to do nothing and reap the free rewards. Everyone keeps calling it a "crisis" on the news. It is not sustainable. I understand that with 5 kids, my wife and my self. But it is not a "crisis". The real Crisis now is unemployment, Killing terrorists, and things that are at our door. My company pays a portion of my personal health insurance. I pay part. I cannot afford to have my family on the plan too. We have a dog crap catastrophic policy for them. It sucks, paying the doctor everytime they have a sniffle, but I do it. I would be covered to some extent if something major went wrong (unless there is a way out in the fine print) but day to day stuff I pay for.

Old people, kids with crappy parents, etc are always going to need help, but donations, churches, good kind people will do a lot if given their taxes back and the opportunity to give freely, not forced.

Oh, its probably best to stay out of the religios debate, but to say Christians are going against their religion or the Bible by not giving free everything to everyone is silly. Again, give them the power to give! Cut the taxes to constitutional programs and people can afford to give. Ever wonder why when you are raising money you usually make more when you ask for a donation rather than a specific charge? People will surprise you.

That's why lower taxes work. Loosen the noose around our necks, we can breathe easier, and as such open our pocket books more. Rather that's to buy something (which helps everyone) or through donations.

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

So, if I'm understanding you guys, (ID and Wayne) the solution is to lower taxes, to free up money to people so that they can donate to organizations that will in turn help out the people that can't afford it, on their own good conscience. So how much do you pay in taxes?
My property taxes are about $3800 per year. My income taxes are not much. With the exception of FICA, I get all but about $1000, to $2000 per year back. That's after all of the deductions, wife, 3 kids, house, etc. For the last 3 years I've paid out of pocket between $14,000 and $18,000 each year. That's the out of pocket cost for me to pay the premiums, co-pays and deductibles. So if my taxes are $5800 per year, and my healthcare costs are $16,000, how much can you cut my taxes?
I don’t know how different your situations are, I’d be interested but I understand it’s private, but most of my buddies are middle class, moderate income (50K to 120K per year) and there situations are similar to mine. I don’t know how the federal government stays in business really because when I think about it, the people I know that make over 50k per year have accountants that help them pay very little in taxes. I have a few buddies that are self employed, and boast paying nothing for income taxes, and are 100% compliant with the IRS. They have a wife and kids and house like me, with enough write offs to cover whatever they make. And they live fairly comfortably. Obviously they pay property taxes, but no income taxes, legally.
So they should be donating to charitable organizations who will help the people who can’t right?
Hey and my only motivation for this discussion is to get ideas on how to improve the system. It is what it is right now, and regardless of what anyone says, I don’t think we will see a dramatic change in the system for at least 3 to 10 years. But the more divided the political parties are, I think the worse the outcome will be. I would hope that people can start introducing new and / or improved ideas, and not be criticized for bringing them up, but rather put everything on the table and pick the best options.

 

[waynehartwig]

I was simply agreeing with him. And in that, agreeing that it's human nature not to give blindly when you have nothing to give. And yes, lowering taxes does stimulate the economy and create jobs. Reagan did it and created over 18 million jobs, took inflation from 12 to 4%, and dropped the unemployment rate from 10 to 5%. With all of this, he DOUBLED federal tax income reciepts.

So you tell me... Lower taxes, but yet the gvt gets more? How does that work if lowering taxes doesn't work? I'll tell you how it works; more people were working, so more people were paying into the system.


We pay nearly $5k a year on property taxes up here. My wife pays $650 a MONTH for a federal healthcare policy for the three of us (4 year old son). That is just the premium, not our actual out of pocket, because we have high deductables, low maximums and high co pays to lower the cost of the policy. So I'd say our out of pocket is probably $22k with meds and etc. But I still don't want anything to do with a gvt run health care system. It's unconstituitional!!!! It's not my problem that Joe Druggy has aids. It's not my problem that Janice Hooker got pregnant. Or Joe Bum wont' work and lives on the streets.

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

If the 22k per year goes to 40k per year in 7 or 8 years will you still be happy with it? And by the way, Joe, Janice and Joe are contributing to your rising costs, so it kind of is your problem if you look at it that way.

 

[waynehartwig]

If the 22k per year goes to 40k per year in 7 or 8 years will you still be happy with it? And by the way, Joe, Janice and Joe are contributing to your rising costs, so it kind of is your problem if you look at it that way.

No, but I still don't want the gvt involved in the health care system. It's not their job or responsibility.

And even at $40k a year, we'd still have the best healthcare system in teh world like we do now.

 

[ID Bronco]

Man, that was a brutal read. Herzog said it best, There should be fair market competition. It is not constitutional. I have not researched the entire healthcare system so I cannot give anyone a full recommendation. None of us can. First Medicare and medicade are horrible. Fraud is rampant, abuse is commonplace, by both doctors and bums who choose to do nothing and reap the free rewards. Everyone keeps calling it a "crisis" on the news. It is not sustainable. I understand that with 5 kids, my wife and my self. But it is not a "crisis". The real Crisis now is unemployment, Killing terrorists, and things that are at our door. My company pays a portion of my personal health insurance. I pay part. I cannot afford to have my family on the plan too. We have a dog crap catastrophic policy for them. It sucks, paying the doctor everytime they have a sniffle, but I do it. I would be covered to some extent if something major went wrong (unless there is a way out in the fine print) but day to day stuff I pay for.

Old people, kids with crappy parents, etc are always going to need help, but donations, churches, good kind people will do a lot if given their taxes back and the opportunity to give freely, not forced.

Oh, its probably best to stay out of the religios debate, but to say Christians are going against their religion or the Bible by not giving free everything to everyone is silly. Again, give them the power to give! Cut the taxes to constitutional programs and people can afford to give. Ever wonder why when you are raising money you usually make more when you ask for a donation rather than a specific charge? People will surprise you.

So, if I'm understanding you guys, (ID and Wayne) the solution is to lower taxes, to free up money to people so that they can donate to organizations that will in turn help out the people that can't afford it, on their own good conscience. So how much do you pay in taxes?
My property taxes are about $3800 per year. My income taxes are not much. With the exception of FICA, I get all but about $1000, to $2000 per year back. That's after all of the deductions, wife, 3 kids, house, etc. For the last 3 years I've paid out of pocket between $14,000 and $18,000 each year. That's the out of pocket cost for me to pay the premiums, co-pays and deductibles. So if my taxes are $5800 per year, and my healthcare costs are $16,000, how much can you cut my taxes?
I don’t know how different your situations are, I’d be interested but I understand it’s private, but most of my buddies are middle class, moderate income (50K to 120K per year) and there situations are similar to mine. I don’t know how the federal government stays in business really because when I think about it, the people I know that make over 50k per year have accountants that help them pay very little in taxes. I have a few buddies that are self employed, and boast paying nothing for income taxes, and are 100% compliant with the IRS. They have a wife and kids and house like me, with enough write offs to cover whatever they make. And they live fairly comfortably. Obviously they pay property taxes, but no income taxes, legally.
So they should be donating to charitable organizations who will help the people who can’t right?
Hey and my only motivation for this discussion is to get ideas on how to improve the system. It is what it is right now, and regardless of what anyone says, I don’t think we will see a dramatic change in the system for at least 3 to 10 years. But the more divided the political parties are, I think the worse the outcome will be. I would hope that people can start introducing new and / or improved ideas, and not be criticized for bringing them up, but rather put everything on the table and pick the best options.

First, I am not here to boast, or put anyone down. I am not wealthy, but am blessed.

Last year I paid after refund with 4 kids, house, yada, yada, over $9K in Federal alone. Obviously paid state and property taxes too. Spare me the you need a better accountant bit. All above board. I have my family on a high deductable, low coverage catastrophic plan. So for normal purposes don't have insurance for everyday stuff. The last child we had I paid over $7000 out of pocket. Our premium is about $200 per month. I have another baby due in April, so same story. I am saving up now. So I am at a rough $6-11K depending on the year. I still don't want the top 3% who pay nearly 80% of taxes overall covering my family. (numbers are what I recall, not checked, I am too busy and wasting work time already) I don't want Canada's system, I dont' want Lithuania's system, I don't want Great Brittians either. With that I gave over $12,000 in donations to others. So would/could I give more if I had that 9K back, sure I could/would. (I do believe we need some taxes, I don't like to drive my rig everywhere, I like paved roads and other services)

It is not perfect, you cannot even shop accross state lines for insurance as it is now. That is a huge problem. If you don't have a group plan but an individual plan (like the one my wife is on), you can go with Blue Cross or uh, oh blue shield. Wait they are the same. Nice so they have either a Monopoly or at least an Oligopoly. So if I had 10 other companies to choose from would I get a better rate or at least better coverage. You bet I would.

Govt. needs to open it up to be able to shop. That would help a great deal right there. Also, doctors bill the highest amount possible for every proceedure knowing the ins. co will kick alot of it out. The doctor only expects to make 40% of billed dollars when you factor in Medicare and Medicade bills. So, I pay out of pocket, cash money to my doctor every time my kids has a cold. $185 Last month. Since they want to bill $185 so they can actually recieve $74.00 for that service from Ins./Govt. run ins. I have to pay the full $185 and get hosed. So I am getting hosed there and where my taxes are paying for joe on medicade's bills too, which increases the cost of my cash proceedure. Are you following me? I get it twice!

Word to all, if you are not using ins. or gov. assistance for bills, negotiate! The doctors will dicker! The previous costs of the baby are actual which I had gotten 45% off the actual bill.

Back to work. Good discussion. Again as stated in my previous comments, I do not have all the answers. The Feds spent Millions of dollars on this, they should have the data and answers. lol

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

No, but I still don't want the gvt involved in the health care system. It's not their job or responsibility.

And even at $40k a year, we'd still have the best healthcare system in teh world like we do now.

At 40K per year, how many people would be able to afford it? And then what do you do with the guy who got in a car accident, had a job but either couldn't afford or chose not to buy insurance, and racked up a $300,018.00 bill? Sure you can stick him for the $18 cable bill, but then someone has to pick up the rest. And if that is some form of government it's ok right? Because he pays his taxes, and that should cover it. Or would it be better for the hospital to turn him away because he doesn't have insurance?

"Govt. needs to open it up to be able to shop. That would help a great deal right there. Also, doctors bill the highest amount possible for every proceedure knowing the ins. co will kick alot of it out. The doctor only expects to make 40% of billed dollars when you factor in Medicare and Medicade bills. So, I pay out of pocket, cash money to my doctor every time my kids has a cold. $185 Last month. Since they want to bill $185 so they can actually recieve $74.00 for that service from Ins./Govt. run ins. I have to pay the full $185 and get hosed. So I am getting hosed there and where my taxes are paying for joe on medicade's bills too, which increases the cost of my cash proceedure. Are you following me? I get it twice!"

The doctor gets paid what the insurance company has contracted them to do the service for, but we already covered that earlier.

And my hat is off to you, ID, it is not easy to support a family and you bear the responsibilty well. I too am a fan of roads, police officers, firefighters, etc. And I have no issue at all with paying my fair share. My earlier comment about the people I know that pay little to no taxes makes me mad, because they are entitled to all of the same public services as I am, yet manage to skirt, at least partially, the payment system.

 

[waynehartwig]

At 40K per year, how many people would be able to afford it? And then what do you do with the guy who got in a car accident, had a job but either couldn't afford or chose not to buy insurance, and racked up a $300,018.00 bill? Sure you can stick him for the $18 cable bill, but then someone has to pick up the rest. And if that is some form of government it's ok right? Because he pays his taxes, and that should cover it. Or would it be better for the hospital to turn him away because he doesn't have insurance?

The problem is if it's $20k this year and $40k next year, that also means our wages will be $20k this year and $40k next year and milk that is $3 this year will be $6 next year.

What they aren't telling you is inflation hits everything, not just health care.

The state's can run their own healthcare, I don't care, but it's not the fed's place to do so. The CA welfare system paid my bill. When Kathleen was in college, the CA welfare system paid her medical bills. There are already healthcare systems in place that ANY US Citizen can get. You own your own business and can afford yours. A bum on the street doesn't work so the state gives him his.

Or are you just pissed that your busting your ass and someone else is getting it for free? It's ok if you are. I am. But that doesn't make a federal plan right. Besides, if you're pissed now, wait until it's socialised, then we'll talk again.

 

[JL Rockies]

What would I do? If I can't afford my bills, I would get rid of cable and take the bus for starters. I have a friend in San Fran who makes a 6 figure income as a pilot of Chevron his wife is a publisher (they have no kids). They moved to San Fran because it's "cool" and he recently bought a Porsche. His current insurance company won't pay for his rehab for his broken wrist he suffered in WI when he flew for Wrigley. So of course, he was a strong proponent of the HC Bill (now dead) because he's been treated so unfairly be the evil insurance companies (last year, the oil companies were evil). I told him to trade in his Porsche for a Civic and pay his bills because I have my own problems.

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

I think I'm frustrated because most of what I hear is criticism, without any sort of solution. I think the majority of people agree that what's happening with with healthcare right now, is heading for a disaster. If we do nothing, we are in bad shape. If we socialize it, we are in bad shape. My whole point of starting this thread was what should we do? And unfortunately I don't think there have been many plausible idea's introduced. The facts that I see are these:

People will not be denied healthcare.

Someone has to pay for it.

In order for a capitalist market to work, the government has to stay out of it.

What else am I missing?

 

[Corban_White]

I am seeing 2 issues in this thread. One is that the tax code is a joke which I agree with. The other is the health care system. People may call me cold hearted but why should you or I or anyone else be forced to pay for someone else's care? Jack, you own a business. Do you provide a service if the customer can't pay? You may or you may not. You may charge less if they don't have insurance. You may waive their deductible. That is your choice. The govt. doesn't force you to fix all damaged cars that show up. What we need to do is get rid of insurance completely. I know, I know, you all think I'm crazy (except for maybe JL-he and I seem to be on about the same page regarding the federal government's illegal activities).

So, we get rid of insurance. For a few years the adjustment would be rough but in the end we would fix the problem. Without insurance two things would happen. First all the people that are in it to make money (doctors, hospitals, drug companies, etc) would be forced to lower their rates because people simply couldn't afford the care they need/want. The competition would increase because instead of going to the hospital/doctor that my insurance told me I could I would go to the one where I thought I would get the best service to cost ratio. Just like in the retail market there would be bargain doctors who provided bargain services and there would be expensive doctors who provided better services. If an institution/individual wanted to provide product/services "pro bono" that would be their right.

The second thing that would happen is that the full time employees at every doctor's office, hospital, etc. that do nothing but deal with either insurance or government paperwork all day would go away. Huge cost savings right there.

The other thing that would need to happen is not an issue with health care alone and would require the same paradigm shift as getting rid of insurance. We would have to have a society that took responsibility for themselves rather than blaming others. We would have to have judges that did not hand down rulings of huge sums of money in lawsuits. This would cause people to stop filing these lawsuits thus decreasing costs for the medical professionals which they could pass along to the customer in the hopes of growing their business.

There are many other policies that would have to change as well. In short-the federal government would have to relinquish the vast majority of it's illegally usurped power and the populace as a whole would have to be responsible for their own actions. When banks or other businesses made poor decisions, they would simply fail. When individuals used credit to purchase more then they could afford-they would fail. I know, heartless Corban. People make decisions based on the good or bad consequences of their actions. If I touch the hot stove I get burned. This makes me try to avoid touching the hot stove. If I touch the hot stove and a $100 bill appears I will spend a lot of time touching the stove. In order for this country to work at all would require a complete shift of attitude. First and foremost would be that the federal government has illegally stolen WAAAAAY too much power from the states. Second would be that people need to take care of themselves and VOLUINTARILY offer assistance to others.

Sorry to add nothing useful to the debate as I know that nothing short of a complete revolution (see: government overthrow) would ever effectuate these changes. This country has had the correct basic structure outlined since the beginning but it has deviated way too far from it both in public policy and the attitude of the citizens.

 

[waynehartwig]

I think I'm frustrated because most of what I hear is criticism, without any sort of solution. I think the majority of people agree that what's happening with with healthcare right now, is heading for a disaster. If we do nothing, we are in bad shape. If we socialize it, we are in bad shape. My whole point of starting this thread was what should we do? And unfortunately I don't think there have been many plausible idea's introduced. The facts that I see are these:

People will not be denied healthcare.

Someone has to pay for it.

In order for a capitalist market to work, the government has to stay out of it.

What else am I missing?

You're probably getting this type of response because we aren't in the healthcare industry. Like you, we like to go wheelin'. We all realize there are issues that need to be addressed, but at the same time we know the current proposed take over is not the fix.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there are already low income healthcare procedures in place on a state level that can easily provide healthcare to US Citizens. ...I'm not talking about illegals, because they can just go home. They should be arrested, not rewarded. But that's a whole'nother topic....

And we aren't alone. Over 70% of American's know this to be true as well. ...I don't know the latest numbers, but I know it's high and grows every day. Like I said, there's only 3 people in the country pushing this down our throats, used to be 4 but one gave up the ghost.

 

[ID Bronco]

I am seeing 2 issues in this thread. One is that the tax code is a joke which I agree with. The other is the health care system. People may call me cold hearted but why should you or I or anyone else be forced to pay for someone else's care? Jack, you own a business. Do you provide a service if the customer can't pay? You may or you may not. You may charge less if they don't have insurance. You may waive their deductible. That is your choice. The govt. doesn't force you to fix all damaged cars that show up. What we need to do is get rid of insurance completely. I know, I know, you all think I'm crazy (except for maybe JL-he and I seem to be on about the same page regarding the federal government's illegal activities).

So, we get rid of insurance. For a few years the adjustment would be rough but in the end we would fix the problem. Without insurance two things would happen. First all the people that are in it to make money (doctors, hospitals, drug companies, etc) would be forced to lower their rates because people simply couldn't afford the care they need/want. The competition would increase because instead of going to the hospital/doctor that my insurance told me I could I would go to the one where I thought I would get the best service to cost ratio. Just like in the retail market there would be bargain doctors who provided bargain services and there would be expensive doctors who provided better services. If an institution/individual wanted to provide product/services "pro bono" that would be their right.

The second thing that would happen is that the full time employees at every doctor's office, hospital, etc. that do nothing but deal with either insurance or government paperwork all day would go away. Huge cost savings right there.

The other thing that would need to happen is not an issue with health care alone and would require the same paradigm shift as getting rid of insurance. We would have to have a society that took responsibility for themselves rather than blaming others. We would have to have judges that did not hand down rulings of huge sums of money in lawsuits. This would cause people to stop filing these lawsuits thus decreasing costs for the medical professionals which they could pass along to the customer in the hopes of growing their business.

There are many other policies that would have to change as well. In short-the federal government would have to relinquish the vast majority of it's illegally usurped power and the populace as a whole would have to be responsible for their own actions. When banks or other businesses made poor decisions, they would simply fail. When individuals used credit to purchase more then they could afford-they would fail. I know, heartless Corban. People make decisions based on the good or bad consequences of their actions. If I touch the hot stove I get burned. This makes me try to avoid touching the hot stove. If I touch the hot stove and a $100 bill appears I will spend a lot of time touching the stove. In order for this country to work at all would require a complete shift of attitude. First and foremost would be that the federal government has illegally stolen WAAAAAY too much power from the states. Second would be that people need to take care of themselves and VOLUINTARILY offer assistance to others.

Sorry to add nothing useful to the debate as I know that nothing short of a complete revolution (see: government overthrow) would ever effectuate these changes. This country has had the correct basic structure outlined since the beginning but it has deviated way too far from it both in public policy and the attitude of the citizens.

I agree with this. We have a doctor in town named Dr. Jim Brooke. He refused to take any insurance or medicade/medicare. He doesn't have a secretary or anyone in billing. He doesn't need them. He charges $35.00 a visit. He will come to your house for $45.00 within a reasonable distance. He will sew up a cut for the visit and a $12.00 sucher (sp) kit! Not hundreds or thousands of dollars at the er or urgent care places. He makes good money doing this and his very happy. He speaks out quite a bit about the real solutions to these problems. He has my respect and admiration.

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

Corbin I don't think your crazy, that's the best response I've heard so far.

And Wayne, I appreciate you and everyone else who contributed to this thread, because most of the people who jump on board to bag on on the democrats and Obama had nothing of value to contribute. I love the discussion, and I do it with the hopes of an exchange of ideas. I have tons of ideas, and not all of them are good. My wife gets frustrated with me because when we need to solve a problem, she doesn't recommend anything until she has contemplated it thoroughly, and I just spout out ideas until i find something good. My approach is to put it all out on the table and pick the best choice.
I don't think the insurance companies are to blame, because they need to make money to stay in business. But I don't think healthcare is something that works as a for profit business. As long as you have the contingent of government involvement you cannot have a truly competitive system.
I don't do things for free in my business, some one has to pay for it. But fortunately ii didn't have to sign an oath saying that I would get every car back on the road, regardless of the owners ability to pay.

I love the idea of getting rid of the insurance companies. Or witzerland has adopet a law back in 1994 that makes it illegal for the insurance companies to profit from basic health insurance. The insurance companies fought it hard before it passed, but have actually adapted to it and are doing ok. They all charge the same amount for the basic package for health insurance, but they make their money off of the other policies that they sell to their customers. Like life insurance, auto insurance, etc. To make that work, there is a government mandate that everyone who can afford it has to buy it, and the lowest income citizens are provided it by the government. The government also has to mandate the charges for services, to keep them in check. I can see a system like this working.

In Lithuania, they have both public and private health care. Every one gets access to healthcare through the public network, but you have the option to buy private coverage through the private network. It's like IHC, Kaiser, and Blue Cross Blue Shield. And I'm just using them as examples, I'm not implying anything about the quality of care. You can imagine that the public network is like Canada's, or Great Brittan's, and the private network is like ours. If you don't have insurance, the public network is available, run by the government, and will give you all of the care that you need. If you choose to buy your insurance, it keeps the private plan in check, because in order to keep their customers, they need to be affordable. Taxes are kept in check because the government does not have to administrate the entire thing, and does not have to pay for services outside of it's own network, and can limit prescription drugs to generics, so that you don't interfere with the pharmaceutical industry. The drug companies are in the same boat as the private providers, because if it's too expensive, the private insurance companies don't have to cover it if they don't want to, and the public plan won't touch it.

I think there are more ways than one to do this, and we do live in a free market society. So who really thinks that people are going to sit around and let our quality of care slide by the wayside? I'm not a very educated person, I've gotten all of my information through research I've done on my own. None of what I've learned is classified knowledge. I guess it frustrates me to hear the politicians spouting off on both side of this like their way is the only way, and then the public discussions I read are almost always heavily slanted to one side or the other. If that is our approach, I think we're all screwed. But maybe I'm naive, but I have a hard time believing that the American people will just stand back and watch it all go down the tubes. If we do, then we are all idiots and deserve what we get. Cooler heads need to prevail.

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

I agree with this. We have a doctor in town named Dr. Jim Brooke. He refused to take any insurance or medicade/medicare. He doesn't have a secretary or anyone in billing. He doesn't need them. He charges $35.00 a visit. He will come to your house for $45.00 within a reasonable distance. He will sew up a cut for the visit and a $12.00 sucher (sp) kit! Not hundreds or thousands of dollars at the er or urgent care places. He makes good money doing this and his very happy. He speaks out quite a bit about the real solutions to these problems. He has my respect and admiration.

We have a similar office in town, and I think it's awesome. I've heard rumors of others who are trying to start their own networks where everyone pays a flat monthly fee for basic care.

 

[Herzog]

Well said Corban, I like your view on the subject.