What does it take to 'do' at trail? Oppinion...

[Bone Down]

could i venture to say that maybe the sport of off roading has evolved into many segments?

I mean you have quads now that are coming equipped with winches, skid plates, and locking diff.

I remember 15+ years ago to me off roading was watching walker evans and ivan stewart run the baja.

So with so many different skill levels, trails, and methods of attempting the trails should it really be that big a deal if some one does it one way versuses another?

I know that unless a bypass is put in place by the blm or respected group that one should not be created just for the sake of I could not do such and such obsticle (this is detrimental to the enviroment), but if it is all ready there and many people know of it, then should not all be able to enjoy it regardless?

I do not by any means think that you should stack rocks to do an obsticle, because this changes the face or layout of the obsticle and this is not fair to those that have taken the time to build these nice rigs to conquer such an obsticle.

Can't we all just get along? (R. King).

 

[Bone Down]

bone down....I can understand what you are trying to say but, that is why different trail ratings exist. you are not going to find a 3 rated trail running parallel to a 5 rated trial.

yah i agree with the ratings and I know that they are in place to keep people aware of what the trail will intail and they should stay that way.

I like the ratings system as it keeps me of off the trails that I know my jeep is not setup for.

so to clarify when I said that it was fun running the snakes, I do not mean in anyway to make it seem that I did con with my set up, I went as far up con as I could go and then had to turn around and leave the trail.

it was my first time and I want to see what the jeep could handle.
I did rattle sanke all the way to WW however there were far to many ppl in line attempting WW that I grew tired of waiting and watching so I moved on to explore more of 5 mile as I possibly could.

I just want every one to have fun, enjoy the time together with others that enjoy the same things, and most of all get out and see all that they can of what Utah's back country has to offer.

 

[DrMoab]

I will probably end up on just about everyones w(ho)th is this guy list.

But I agree with the concurred the trail versus the I drove the trail.

Now myself being new to the sport and not much into the whole rock crawling scene ( I am more of the 'I want to see Utah's back country explorer kind of person).

I would love to drive prichete with my current set up, however I would by no means run off and tell everyone in a manner that would make it appear that I concurred said trail.

I know that some of you are hard core and think that bypasses are the root of all trail evil, but I think that it is nice to be able to enjoy the same trail as you (the rock crawler or extreme 4x4), and at the very least I could say holy crap that is nuts.

I hope I do not upset to many, but I would like to enjoy the same trails and watch some of you that have taken a great deal of time, money, and ingenuity to get your rigs to the state in which it can concur some of the extreme obsticles.

I guess what I am saying is it is nice that the bypasses exist only but to allow the new comers or the casual off roader the opportunity to experience the trail, but not to claim "I have done prichete with only x x x x set up.

I won't flame you BUT...I have to say that if you are happy about bypasses being made where there were previously none...Then you and I have a big problem...The reason 99% of this board doesn't like seeing bypasses made is simply the fact that they can result in trails being closed down to all of us. SUWA,Sierra Club...and the like are always looking for something like that to help further their cause.

If a trail has an intentional bypass...fine. But to make a new one...This is wrong!

 

[Bone Down]

I won't flame you BUT...I have to say that if you are happy about bypasses being made where there were previously none...Then you and I have a big problem...The reason 99% of this board doesn't like seeing bypasses made is simply the fact that they can result in trails being closed down to all of us. SUWA,Sierra Club...and the like are always looking for something like that to help further their cause.

If a trail has an intentional bypass...fine. But to make a new one...This is wrong!

I totally agree with your logic on the bypass, read a couple of posts up, unless one is put in place due to say saftey reasons or what not then fine, but one should not just make a bypass just because.

I want the trails to stay open as much as the next guy, and I don't like to see trails destroyed, but like I mentioned earlier if there is all ready one in place and it is well known to be in place (such that it has become accepted as common place by the BLM or appropriate department or clubs), then people should not be criticized (spelling) for using them, but they should by no means run off and make claims of such proportion that it demeans the trails true grit of toughness, and difficulty so much so that built rigs become peeved and the trail becomes a root of arguements and is no longer fun to run.

 

[shmoesmith]

I always see this---"my rig has this and this and this and It's done this trail and this trail" etc. etc. But they fully acknowledged that they have taken bypasses around the obstacles or were dragged through. Most recently it was mentioned in a thread on here that a Tracker with a 6" lift and 31's or something has done Pritchett Canyon etc. While I have no doubt that that vehicle could get through pritchet, I have a hard time beliving that it drove itself up over rock pile. I'm in no way calling that vehicle out to defend itself, it's just the most recent example I've read.

In my oppinion, there is no shame in taking a strap on an obstacle (like rock pile for example) and having done that doens't negate your 'completion' of the trail. However, I see people post that they 'did' Rusty Nail, but they bypassed the first obsacle, strapped the second, and drove the third (you just fall off of it)---so did they 'do' Rusty Nail?

So, I guess my question is, even if you bypass the difficult areas of a trail (i.e. the obstacles that actually give the trail a difficult rating in the first place) did you still 'do' that trail? Does your vehicles presence alone on the trail automatically mean you conquered said trail or do you actually have to drive xxx percentage of the trail to legitimately say you've done the trail?

Cody

Yeah, that tracker winched over the top of rockpile, as did every single vehicle in the group....course that tracker was MUCH more modified (lockers etc) than most trackers. Rockpile was the only thing winched or strapped...nothing was winched or strapped when he did behind the rocks. I think due to wheelbase issues, winching and strapping is sometimes neccesary and the fact that you did it (based on wheelbase alone)shouldnt mean you didnt conquer the trail. I mean lets face it, something like widowmaker is an obsticle that people in short wheelbase used to make, but a stock wheelbase samurai or a CJ or even a wranger making widowmaker as it stands now??? not likely. I think if you take a strap or winch due to wheelbase issues, you still conquored it. If you had to stack rocks, take a bypass or get winched or strapped over your regular old obsticle, then you did not conquer the trail, rather drove it with a bit of assistance. By regular obsticals, I mean ones that are part of the designated route, and not an 'optional' obstical such as hells gate or escalator on the hells revenge trail...as far as other 'cheats' to wheeling, I dont think using a highlift counts as cheating..their use has been around forever(like jacking up the end of a vehicle and tipping the highlift over to change yoru tire placement or get yourself out of a jam)

 

[mbryson]

I will probably end up on just about everyones w(ho)th is this guy list.

But I agree with the concurred the trail versus the I drove the trail.

Now myself being new to the sport and not much into the whole rock crawling scene ( I am more of the 'I want to see Utah's back country explorer kind of person).

I would love to drive prichete with my current set up, however I would by no means run off and tell everyone in a manner that would make it appear that I concurred said trail.

I know that some of you are hard core and think that bypasses are the root of all trail evil, but I think that it is nice to be able to enjoy the same trail as you (the rock crawler or extreme 4x4), and at the very least I could say holy crap that is nuts.

I hope I do not upset to many, but I would like to enjoy the same trails and watch some of you that have taken a great deal of time, money, and ingenuity to get your rigs to the state in which it can concur some of the extreme obsticles.

I guess what I am saying is it is nice that the bypasses exist only but to allow the new comers or the casual off roader the opportunity to experience the trail, but not to claim "I have done prichete with only x x x x set up.

wait a second





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okay flame protector v2.0 install complete ..

That's what being a 'trail b!tch' is about..... Sit in the passenger seat

 

[Cody]

schmoe, (forgot to quote)

I agree. There are some obstacle that are beyond way beyond the 'average' difficulty of the trail---such as rockpile, the end of constrictor etc. I say no harm in taking a strap over those and I would say you still did the trail. I just think somepeople get strapped, pulled, winched, highlifted, and rock stacked through trail just to say they 'did' them. I understand not wanting to be left behind on a trail run, but then you should start to build your vehicle so you can do trails that the people you wheel with do without being a liability to yourself or your vehicle. Nobody like to break **** or baby sit a rig that shouldn't be on the trail.

Cody

 

[DrMoab]

schmoe, (forgot to quote)

I agree. There are some obstacle that are beyond way beyond the 'average' difficulty of the trail---such as rockpile, the end of constrictor etc. I say no harm in taking a strap over those and I would say you still did the trail. I just think somepeople get strapped, pulled, winched, highlifted, and rock stacked through trail just to say they 'did' them. I understand not wanting to be left behind on a trail run, but then you should start to build your vehicle so you can do trails that the people you wheel with do without being a liability to yourself or your vehicle. Nobody like to break **** or baby sit a rig that shouldn't be on the trail.

Cody

Have you seen this alot or do you have a paticular person in mind? Reason I ask is I have not seen this happen too often. However I have had a few friends with more or less stock jeeps(my dad) who want to follow along and have a hard time getting through because the rest of us have more advanced rigs then they do. Usually though those types of people are more interested in being with their buddies then they are "doing" a paticular trail.

I have also...being in an XJ club...seen guys following along not knowing what we were getting into...For example being on a trail that non of us have been through.

I'm guessing though that you are talking solely about the dudes who brag about doing certian trails. Not the guys who have to get an occasional tug.

 

[bobdog]

you are not going to find a 3 rated trail running parallel to a 5 rated trial.

Tip toe behind the rocks and I can't remember the name but there is an easy version of Hells Revenge.

 

[Herzog]

I got dragged through Upper Proving Grounds in my full body cherokee by Carl (I Lean), Braden (RockyMonkey) and Sibeta. I never claimed that I "did" the trail, because honestly I didn't. I drove the second obstical after 10 trys and got pulled through the rest by buggies. That was fun as hell though.

It was the cherokee's last Moab outing before it became full tube.

 

[RockMonkey]

I got dragged through Upper Proving Grounds in my full body cherokee by Carl (I Lean), Braden (RockyMonkey) and Sibeta. I never claimed that I "did" the trail, because honestly I didn't. I drove the second obstical after 10 trys and got pulled through the rest by buggies. That was fun as hell though.

It was the cherokee's last Moab outing before it became full tube.

Let's go do it again!

The one thing I'd really like to see come out of this thread is for RME to collectively conquer the correct spelling of the word conquer.

 

[Bone Down]

That's what being a 'trail b!tch' is about..... Sit in the passenger seat

I am not that, and I have my own ride, it is just not as built as others and I try not to tempt fait by taking trails that my jeep is not equiped to handle.

That is why I am always asking about trails and if my jeep can handle it or not, if it can then I go try, if it can't then I find others that I can, but I am still not into the hardcore stuff 4+ and up trails, to many hobbies to afford to build a dedicated trail rig for such a task.

I do enjoy watching some of you others out there that do get out and attempt these types of trails.

 

[Bone Down]

Let's go do it again!

The one thing I'd really like to see come out of this thread is for RME to collectively conquer the correct spelling of the word conquer.

yah yah yah, I knew that I was spelling concur and not conquer, but I was not thinking very clearly when typing this, but you knew what I meant and the point was still made no harm no foul.

I still like this BB over all the others.

 

[James K]

Let's go do it again!

The one thing I'd really like to see come out of this thread is for RME to collectively conquer the correct spelling of the word conquer.

I did it right.......right

 

[RockMonkey]

yah yah yah, I knew that I was spelling concur and not conquer, but I was not thinking very clearly when typing this, but you knew what I meant and the point was still made no harm no foul.

I still like this BB over all the others.

I wasn't picking on you specifically. I saw a bunch of different people spell it a bunch of different ways. I put it into Microsoft Word and did a spell check to figure it out.

See sig.

 

[iceaxe]

I think it's ok to say you've done a trail in most circumstances, even if you may not have done it well

If it really mattered you could get technical with terms for how well you did a trail ie from mountian biking like "I cleaned that trail", or you could say, I only mostly did that trail, or he hasn't quite done that trail yet ("I'm only mostly dead", "but I'm not quite dead yet" )

It's all rather subjective anyway (especially when it comes to taking a strap or stacking a rock or two etc).

I came out of lurking for a somewhat related thread discussing the Hells Revenge trail. I had "done it" in a stock XJ and in my newbie excitement it felt like at the time that I had "Conquered" though I never put it that way knowing full well I had only had an introduction. That trail has a regular obstacle I bypassed that day (a good well accepted bypass) but best known for optional obstacles that were not always used in the past. Now I've returned and driven some of those obstacles (see avatar) and taken harder lines with a better equipped vehicle, I feel I have "conquered" those portions of the trail not the whole trail by any means, I will say I've done that trail several times now, even though there is still some left for me to do in the future with an even more prepared rig! Not only that, there are portions of the trail I've never even seen except in videos so.... it's all subjective...



edit: what was that spelling for conqured again...

 

[Meat_]

The trail is the obstacles. The bypasses are not.


Call me crazy, but I don't like to say I've done things that I haven't.

 

[Bone Down]

I wasn't picking on you specifically. I saw a bunch of different people spell it a bunch of different ways. I put it into Microsoft Word and did a spell check to figure it out.

See sig.

no bigs, I did not think that it was at me and me only. I just noticed that once I read it correctly and then reading your post I realized that I concur with your analysis of the improper usage...

see how I used that darn word again....

 

[RockMonkey]

no bigs, I did not think that it was at me and me only. I just noticed that once I read it correctly and then reading your post I realized that I concur with your analysis of the improper usage...

see how I used that darn word again....

Nice.

 

[DevinB]

Here's my thoughts. There's a difference between 'conquering' and 'doing' a trail. If you've done most of the trail unassisted, maybe a little tug or a couple rock-stacks, you've 'done' the trail. To conquer a trail requires doing any and all obstacles unassisted - no straps, no strategic rock-placing. For example, the vast majority of us have 'done' Constrictor. Only a select few have 'conquered' it (not sure who's made it, I personally only know of one). Same with upper/lower/helldorado/proving grounds/whichever one has the waterfall. Tons of people have 'done', few have 'conquered'. That's how I look at it.
Devin