What expedition rig to get?

[Ford Prefect]

Guess I read a completely different set of needs than you?

Room for 2 adults and 2 kids - So in the Unimog world that would equate to a Doka or other 4 door variants, which start in the $20k range for one that likely needs work.

Fuel economy. Good luck, when you try and push them at the higher speeds (read the minimum speeds legally required on most highways), the mileage heads down.

There is no doubt that the fuel can get up there in costs, that is true.

With the room, however, that one I mentioned that is only 8K and I am sure you could get him to go down on that a little. The thing is already set up as a motor home, and kids can ride in the back of a motor home so long as there is a passage between the cabin and the camper portion, which in that one there is. That is why I think it would be a very good rig for him. It is already set up with everything he would need, just get in it and drive.

I guess when I think "expedition vehicle" I do not think of your average jeep/toyota/ford. I think of a vehicle that you can live out of for an extended time that can go anywhere.

Yes, I know they can be spendy, but you can still find a good one for a good price if you shop, and even more so in this time of general financial stress.

Besides, he did say it was going to be parked most of the time. This is not a dual use vehicle, it is no DD, just a trip truck.

Anyhow... That is why I thought it would fit the needs listed.

 

[Ford Prefect]

There is a reason the number of Jeeps beat out other vehicles 2:1 combined for trail rigs in general, and there is a reason a Toyota beats out other vehicles 2:1 for overland uses worldwide and here in the states. Again, thats not to say they can't be built either way, and they definitely have too, just that for a base vehicle I believe the LC80 lends itself to this type of use far better than most, the 4D Tacoma a close second, the 100 Series (V8 powered) & 4Runners not far behind.

Goodness Kurt, are all of those yours?! That is a drive way plum full of Toyotas. They do look nice I must say.

I want to mention, I really think that the main reason Toyota is the popular choice world wide can be attributed to the fact that they started selling world wide far before Jeep did. You can find those old four door Toyotas from the 70's around the world, just not here. Not to mention many militarys used them in the past as well. I think if jeep had been so into export fifty years ago you would see them with equal world wide sup[port and parts.

You are right, however, right now if you are planning to leave the continent, then Toyota will be much easier to have work done on it when you are broken down on the side of the road.

That of a Landy, those things are very popular world wide, and you can find parts easily. Furthermore the Land Rover defenders are built with the intent that a person with a third grade education can fix them with relative ease.

Read an article once com paring the Discovery and the WJ and the end result was that the Disco was nicer overall, but for the Author's money he would take the WJ, and if you wanted to buy one for him he would take the Disco.

 

[Ford Prefect]

I get 15 mpg out of mine on average on the freeway. But I do have 35's and 4.56's...and a very low mile motor. I'm not sure what the 4.7 Wj's get, but I would expect about the same. When I had a stock v8 ZJ, I would get 18-20 mpg freeway only. I would expect a v8 WJ with 32's (285's) and stock gearing to get in the neighborhood of 15 though.

With my WJ (I-6) I get about 15-17 on the interstate, with my Father's WJ (V8) He gets 22-24 on the interstate. Ironically the WJ kept the same I-6 as the ZJ, however they completely redesigned the V-8, so... If that answers your question there...

That is still irksome for me. My father convinced me not to get the V-8 due to the mileage, and then right after I got it he found out that the 6 gets worse mileage than the 8! ggrrrr


Oh, and I should mention, my WJ is lifted two inches, with 30's and my father's is a stock WJ.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Do you honestly consider that a Land Cruiser, or just a marketing ploy by Toyota to capitalize on the LC craze by putting a new dress and a tilt-o-meter on the dash of a 4runner platform?...

The FJC is not a Land Cruiser, never has been never was. An it absolutely was inspired as a marketing craze, but lets not let that detract from the actual LC. The cult following derived from its service to owners, not the other way around, that has led to them being so desirable. Discount relic restored and rare Land Cruisers, even a common soccer mom 80 Series demands a higher price amongst the off-road crowd, because your getting what you pay for imo. I'm not saying the Toyota is the end all for overland type travel, anything could feasibly be built to do it and often cheaper, a Rover, an Explorer, a JK makes a killer platform, XJ's obviously. But professionals touring the world don't choose a Tacoma because of the LC craze

...Because the extra power and ability to go faster than maybe necessary are not benefits. Why did you search so hard for the supercharged taco again? ...

Same reason I chose a vehicle with grey interior, because I can. It wasn't a huge breaking point in fact the truck I went to put money on was non-SC (but grey interior ) I had zero problems making my non-SC Tacoma go anywhere I needed to in a hurry. But why not consider the SC anyways? Its 100% factory supported, dealer stocked and dead nuts reliable. I've never heard of a single field failure with a SC despite gobs of abuse by some. I consider it an option just like 4WD and power windows, if you needs call for it, do it.

...If you are comparing the ZJ to the mid 90's LC, then the jeep also has disk brakes on all 4 corners, weighs 1500-2000 lbs less, is more fuel efficient (exept the 4.0, that motor sucks gas offroad), and there are more people in the states that make aftermarket parts, and just a higher volume of cheap part donors out there. Some of the other knocks on the ZJ are true--rear axle sucks, unibody, etc. There isn't much argument pro for the d35 (or the 44hd in 96-98 V8's), the unibody for a light trail/expedition vehicle isn't going to have any problems. It can take plenty of abuse.

So the one thing I see is fuel economy? A moderate built LC can still pull in 13-15 mpg, whats the ZJ getting? There are more parts suppliers your right, but not that specialize in outfitting them for this type of US, you won't find too many manufactures selling long arm and ultra-flex kits for the 80, just as you won't find manufactures making rear panel water bladders and drawer/fridge systems for the ZJ, they inspire a different aftermarket following. Sure there are a lot more spare parts available for the ZJ? Is that not telling in itself? I'm yet to discover an item that is a "must carry" for an 80 owner? Can't say there is one for the ZJ but with all this talk of spare parts there must be some worry in the back of your minds? Based on my experience with the WJ (my wife had one for two years when we first got married), would be a half dozen spare engine sensors (that failed at 30k mind you) for the motor and enough super glue to keep the interior trim from rattling loose driving down the highway.

 

[Cody]

With my WJ (I-6) I get about 15-17 on the interstate, with my Father's WJ (V8) He gets 22-24 on the interstate. Ironically the WJ kept the same I-6 as the ZJ, however they completely redesigned the V-8, so... If that answers your question there...

they didn't redesign the v8. They switched from the old dodge/chrysler 318 to the more modern 4.7. It's just a different motor that they already had in service in other vehicles.

if that answers your question there

the i6 is just too small of a motor for the grand cherokees. It's seems to work fine in TJ's and XJ's though.

 

[Cody]

Same reason I chose a vehicle with grey interior, because I can. ....... I consider it an option just like 4WD and power windows, if you needs call for it, do it.

So did your needs call for it or was it just an option?

I'm just giving you a hard time. I would prefer the supercharged version, not because my needs call for it but because I want it.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Goodness Kurt, are all of those yours?! That is a drive way plum full of Toyotas. They do look nice I must say.

LOL, I wish. I'm just get paid to outfit them, wish it were enough to own one though A few of those combined are worth more than my house

I want to mention, I really think that the main reason Toyota is the popular choice world wide can be attributed to the fact that they started selling world wide far before Jeep did. You can find those old four door Toyotas from the 70's around the world, just not here. Not to mention many militarys used them in the past as well. I think if jeep had been so into export fifty years ago you would see them with equal world wide sup[port and parts.

No. Simply not true. The Jeep was exporting to more countries, before Toyota (which didn't even come to the US until the 60's in size). The military still uses them worldwide, including the US military in places such as the Middle East. They grew with a sound business plan, products consumers needed and back end support to keep them on the road and coming back for more. They are currently the largest auto maker in the world and the number one seller in the US, despite only bringing ~1/4 of their vehicle lineup to the US, for example the US is 5% of their worldwide Land Cruiser market. Oh, and they didn't have a 4dr truck until the 80's, there may have been companies building them but Toyota didn't even build a 4WD minitruck until the late 70's. This doesn't shed much light on why they have been the choice for major expeditions though as those builders could have trucked in anything they wanted... they chose Toyota or Rover or Jeep or xxxx not because it was popular in the country, but because they felt it would give them the least troubles while doing the job ahead of it.

...That of a Landy, those things are very popular world wide, and you can find parts easily. Furthermore the Land Rover defenders are built with the intent that a person with a third grade education can fix them with relative ease...

Very true, Rovers are everywhere and have their own cult following. A D90 would be the cats meow. Sadly with a troubled parent company, things at Land Rover are not looking so good, we'll see how that relates to their future vehicles and current uses around the world.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

So did your needs call for it or was it just an option?

I'm just giving you a hard time. I would prefer the supercharged version, not because my needs call for it but because I want it.

I have a need to take traffic school on a semi regular basis

 

[Cody]

I have a need to take traffic school on a semi regular basis

haha, right. The same reason I "needed" to sell the 4.0 for the v8

 

[Anchor_Mtn]

Im a little bias but I have enjoyed the Tahoe for expedition purposes. It has plenty of room for my wife, 2 dogs, and I. I can lay the back seat down and we can all sleep comfortably in the back even with a moderate amount of gear in there with us. Out here in Western CO and eastern UT I have not come across any places where the width of the rig was an issue and the wheelbase is only 117.5"....not much more than the new Jeep JK 4 door(116"). With the 4.56 gears and 35" tires I am still averaging ~15mpg with the stock 30gal tank.

 

[Cody]

gm = class II databus/LAN = no thanks

After working on GM electronics, I don't know that I'd ever want one....at least not one of the newer ones.

 

[Bart]

Im a little bias but I have enjoyed the Tahoe for expedition purposes. It has plenty of room for my wife, 2 dogs, and I. I can lay the back seat down and we can all sleep comfortably in the back even with a moderate amount of gear in there with us. Out here in Western CO and eastern UT I have not come across any places where the width of the rig was an issue and the wheelbase is only 117.5"....not much more than the new Jeep JK 4 door(116"). With the 4.56 gears and 35" tires I am still averaging ~15mpg with the stock 30gal tank.

How do you think it would do on trails like Hell's Revenge and Moab Rim? Just curious.

 

[Tacoma]

Kurt's supercharger makes wicked cool whoosing noises. Hell yes I'd get one, just for that!!! That would be sweet under the hood of a 40 LOL

 

[Anchor_Mtn]

How do you think it would do on trails like Hell's Revenge and Moab Rim? Just curious.

I cant say for sure. Ive never gotten to run those trails. Everytime I meet people in Moab they all wanna run Pritchett or Area BFE. But due to the fact thats its open/open and the suspension is limited with the 8" stroke shocks I have on it right now, I would say it wouldnt do too well. If I put in a locker or two and shocks that let those springs move to their full potential(12-15" stroke range in the front), it would do just fine.

 

[mesha]

Im a little bias but I have enjoyed the Tahoe for expedition purposes. It has plenty of room for my wife, 2 dogs, and I. I can lay the back seat down and we can all sleep comfortably in the back even with a moderate amount of gear in there with us. Out here in Western CO and eastern UT I have not come across any places where the width of the rig was an issue and the wheelbase is only 117.5"....not much more than the new Jeep JK 4 door(116"). With the 4.56 gears and 35" tires I am still averaging ~15mpg with the stock 30gal tank.

I am looking at a tahoe tonight. I won't do the solid axle thing probably, but I like my truck. has it been reliable for you?

gm = class II databus/LAN = no thanks

After working on GM electronics, I don't know that I'd ever want one....at least not one of the newer ones.

I am dumb so I didn't understand that equation. Could you explain it to me.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Kurt,

Very enlightening, thanks

I knew I was going to be off on the date, but I do recall seeing photos of African troops in a four door Toy that was much older than the first ones they sold here.

Never the less...interesting, and I guess far from germane to the topic at hand so I will not continue it further.

 

[sixb]

I am dumb so I didn't understand that equation. Could you explain it to me.

Don't feel dumb over what Cody says, most of his equations don't make any sence. Really who would even compare a japense machine to an american one? All my cnc machines are japenese except for 1 and so I only have 1 lemon.:greg:

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I knew I was going to be off on the date, but I do recall seeing photos of African troops in a four door Toy that was much older than the first ones they sold here....

Could have been a cab/chassis export that was converted into something different? Toyota started selling cab/chassis's in the early days, so its not uncommon to see a Toyota truck front end with anything from a motorhome to a tow truck behind them. Its far more common in some of the lesser developed countries, ie Columbia, Africa and such. I've got a local customer that brought back two FJ43's from Columbia a few years back. Nearly identical from 10 feet away but you get closer to them and the details of each build were strikingly different and both non-OE. Each was done likely by hand yet very high quality. It was determined that both of these units were sold as cab/chassis models, basically the front half of an FJ40 cab and tub and then converted to their current "troopy" form in country.

The 4runner here in the US was predated by a Trekker, built by an aftermarket company on the pickup truck chassis. Most consider them the brainchild for the 4Runner.

Some example of modified Cruiser chassis's

Sorry for the hijack

 

[Cody]

I am dumb so I didn't understand that equation. Could you explain it to me.

It wasn't an actual equation per se, rather an attempt to numerically represent my opinion of modern GM electrical systems. Gm uses a databus electrical system that runs variable voltage through the same wire to control multiple functions. It's extremely difficult to integrate anything into, a PITA to work on, and if something were to go wrong with one compenent, it can potentially effect many other things. For expedition vehicles, there is some logic to keeping things simple and I admit the WJ is far less "simple" than an FJ60 or 62. Probably similar to the more modern 80's and 100's though.

Don't feel dumb over what Cody says, most of his equations don't make any sence. Really who would even compare a japense machine to an american one? All my cnc machines are japenese except for 1 and so I only have 1 lemon.:greg:

I was stating a personal opinion based upon many years of experience with GM electrical systems. I'm not sure how it elicited that response, but I'm sorry if that didn't make "sence" to you.

Also, just because something I say doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean most other people are perfectly capable of figuring it out

 

[SAMI]

Here's something completely random.. You could throw some money at this for accesories and have a one of a kind rig for sure. Obviously you'd need to figure out 4WD, but then you might as well throw in a Toyota solid axle up front while you were at it..

'90 Nissan Turbo Diesel Pathfinder