Which rv/5th wheel solution for full time?

[jentzschman]

Understandable, just thought it might be an option to help simplify, but based on your goals, it would seem very difficult to give up indeed. The 5th wheel idea does not sit well either? You would get your "around the town" and dirt road use, and still be able to have a very comfortable living space. I know you mentioned it earlier but an earlier post said that might be a bad idea... can't remember the post... I know that leaves the storage for you and the bikes limited however.

While I do not have any towing experience and at the risk of sounding very much a noob, why can't a non-dully truck tow a properly sized 5th wheel "safely"?

 

[zmotorsports]

Mike, what are your thoughts on a FRED? (Front Engine Diesel) super c? I really think that's the way I'm leaning for the moment.

Steve, the Super C's built on the Kodiak/Top Kick are a nice intermediate size and many have upwards of a 10k pound towing capacity. Engine access is better than on a lot of Class A DP's. I have heard some complain about engine noise and they ride like a truck. Well, they are a truck so I don't know how to respond when I hear that. Personally, when I think of a Super C I think of something like a Haulmark Showhauler that is actually built on a Class 8 truck chassis and with a towing capacity upwards of 40k pounds. If I were still racing heavily I would probably lean more towards something like that. I met a guy online on one of the RV forumns that just bought a Showhauler out of Logan last summer and he asked me to drive up and give him some driving pointers when he and his wife come from Texas to pick it up. It was a very nice rig and handled very well.

One downside, if you choose to look at as a downside, is foot for foot you do have a little less interior living space from a Super C to a Class A DP.

Mike.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Ok, I've definitely decided that I want a 4x4 toad. I'd love it if it were under 5000 lbs and under $10k. I'm thinking a 5-speed extended cab tacoma or a 5 speed 4runner would do the trick. I'd get a tracker or sidekick, but I don't trust the motors in those.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I like the thought of a super C like this:

http://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2005-Jayco-Seneca-GS35-HD-114321397


and a toyhauler version could be kinda cool:
http://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2007-Jayco-Seneca-35TM-113774253

 

[Caleb]

Ok, I've definitely decided that I want a 4x4 toad. I'd love it if it were under 5000 lbs and under $10k. I'm thinking a 5-speed extended cab tacoma or a 5 speed 4runner would do the trick. I'd get a tracker or sidekick, but I don't trust the motors in those.

Rav4's tend to be pretty popular toads. The Tacoma or Runner would be nice as well.

 

[kmboren]

Ok, I've definitely decided that I want a 4x4 toad. I'd love it if it were under 5000 lbs and under $10k. I'm thinking a 5-speed extended cab tacoma or a 5 speed 4runner would do the trick. I'd get a tracker or sidekick, but I don't trust the motors in those.

I know you are a toy guy but there are plenty of nice cherokees XJs out there that are not built but very capable off road. You can also manually put the transfer case into Neutral. Just a thought. Capable, light, cheap and easy to work on. Plus have room for your bikes and stuff in the back. it seems to fit your desires. Plus XJ just rule.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Yeah, XJs have been on my radar. They're getting a little dated, and I worry about reliability (same with the older toyotas). I think I want something newer than 2000 (I know there are a few XJs in that ballpark). I want reliable more than anything, and I'll keep XJs on the radar.

One of these without the lift would be great. Or even an extended cab.
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2134760?ad_cid=1

 

[hoosier]

That's sexy steve. I wish I could justify one, but it sounds like it might be perfect for you

 

[sixstringsteve]

Yeah, the only way I could justify it is to sell my house and live in an rv full time. Even then, it's going to take some saving to be able to afford one.

 

[rockdog]

Ok, I admittedly didn't read all the pages on your post. That said, I have scaled my 02 f350 at 24,400 with our goose with two trucks on it. My 350 is a single wheel crew short bed. Is that a lot of weight? Yes. Will I kill a bus full of nuns? I don't think so. It actually handles pretty good. You aren't going to pass everything on the road for sure. So my point is, yes you can pull a good size fifthwheel with a single wheel tow rig.

 

[kmboren]

Yeah, XJs have been on my radar. They're getting a little dated, and I worry about reliability (same with the older toyotas). I think I want something newer than 2000 (I know there are a few XJs in that ballpark). I want reliable more than anything, and I'll keep XJs on the radar.

One of these without the lift would be great. Or even an extended cab.
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2134760?ad_cid=1

I think XJs would be pretty reliable if you found one that was not abused. It is harder to find low milage ones but in the low 100000s I would buy in a heart beat and not worry about them. It was just a thought that fit your requirements extremely well. In reality you there is no way your going to buy a jeep. Not in your style.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I'm not opposed to a jeep. I just know every bolt on a tacoma, so it feels more familiar and I'm familiar with their weaknesses and how to fix them. I don't think an XJ is going to be as reliable as a tacoma, but it shouldn't be far behind. Finding either an XJ or Tacoma that hasn't been beat on is getting tough these days.

I think a ZJ would be more my style than an XJ. I had a friend with an XJ, and he'd always bring it to me to fix all the little things that were going out on it. Maybe his car was more abused than most, but I hated all the little things that were going out on it. For a trail rig, no problem. For my daily driver, i don't want to have to tinker with it. I want something that's always ready to go with no real maintenance (and I realize a lot of XJs fit that bill).

In short, I'm trying resist the urge to be closed minded. Keep working on me, I may swing over to the Jeep side of things. With my toyota experience, i'll always default to checking them out. I've never had a toyota leave me stranded, and they've always been very cheap to maintain and keep going. I hear XJs are the same way, so there may be hope for me yet.

 

[Bart]

I don't know of too many rigs more dependable than a slightly built XJ. The 4.0 is almost indestructible. I think it would come down to weight and available space.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Requirements for my tow behind vehicle:
- Dead reliable (more for daily driving, not so much for offroading)
- Won't leave me stranded down a dirt road
- Affordable (under $10k)
- light (under 5k lbs preferred)
- true 4-low with a t-case that can be shifted into neutral
- Covered cargo space (either a truck shell, or an SUV with a hard top)
- cargo space must be big enough space to fit my mountain bikes full time. I'll probably end up building some sort of sliding rack to put them back there.

I won't be wheeling this rig, it'll be for taking me to the laundry mat, buying groceries, taking me to remote dirt road mountain biking destinations, national parks, freeway trips, river shuttles, etc. Lockers aren't needed. I won't be "wheeling" this rig. I'll put some all terrains on it and keep the rest stock.

Thoughts and questions on vehicles

XJs. I hear the 4.0 is a pretty long-life motor, what about the electrical, switches, seals, steering, etc? I wonder if my bikes would fit in the back of an XJ or ZJ. I've been on the trail with several XJs that overheated. Is this a common problem? They also kept blowing some sort of valve/fuse thing under the hood. What years are best for stock, daily driving? What kind of MPG can I expect out of these? What should I look out for when shopping for these?

ZJs. How does the reliability of a ZJ stack up to an XJ? I dated a girl with a zj and I thought it was fine. It had a few small issues I had to fix on it, but it seemed to be pretty darn reliable. I liked the v8 in it, and the interior seemed nicer than the XJs I've been in.

Ford Ranger I've also been toying with the idea of a ford ranger. They seem pretty dependable and cheap. Are the 4cyl or 6cyl models more reliable?

1996-2002 4Runner I can't deny how reliable 4runners are. I've had 3 of them with zero issues. I know the vehicles well, and I know their weaknesses (lower ball joints). If I get one of these, it needs to have the j-shift tcase to be able to be flat towed. The problem with toyotas is that the secret's out, and they're not nearly as cheap as they used to be (especially the pickups). Plus most of them have lots of wear and tear on them, and quite a few have seen some good offroad miles (something I'm finding with XJs too). If I found a good, low-mileage 3rd gen 4runner, it'd be hard to pass up. Kevin, want to sell Clara back to me? Or do a partial trade for my current runner?

 

[zmotorsports]

Requirements for my tow behind vehicle:
- Dead reliable (more for daily driving, not so much for offroading)
- Won't leave me stranded down a dirt road
- Affordable (under $10k)
- light (under 5k lbs preferred)
- true 4-low with a t-case that can be shifted into neutral
- Covered cargo space (either a truck shell, or an SUV with a hard top)
- cargo space must be big enough space to fit my mountain bikes full time. I'll probably end up building some sort of sliding rack to put them back there.

I won't be wheeling this rig, it'll be for taking me to the laundry mat, buying groceries, taking me to remote dirt road mountain biking destinations, national parks, freeway trips, river shuttles, etc. Lockers aren't needed. I won't be "wheeling" this rig. I'll put some all terrains on it and keep the rest stock.

Thoughts and questions on vehicles

XJs. I hear the 4.0 is a pretty long-life motor, what about the electrical, switches, seals, steering, etc? I wonder if my bikes would fit in the back of an XJ or ZJ. I've been on the trail with several XJs that overheated. Is this a common problem? They also kept blowing some sort of valve/fuse thing under the hood. What years are best for stock, daily driving? What kind of MPG can I expect out of these? What should I look out for when shopping for these?

ZJs. How does the reliability of a ZJ stack up to an XJ? I dated a girl with a zj and I thought it was fine. It had a few small issues I had to fix on it, but it seemed to be pretty darn reliable. I liked the v8 in it, and the interior seemed nicer than the XJs I've been in.

Ford Ranger I've also been toying with the idea of a ford ranger. They seem pretty dependable and cheap. Are the 4cyl or 6cyl models more reliable?

1996-2002 4Runner I can't deny how reliable 4runners are. I've had 3 of them with zero issues. I know the vehicles well, and I know their weaknesses (lower ball joints). If I get one of these, it needs to have the j-shift tcase to be able to be flat towed. The problem with toyotas is that the secret's out, and they're not nearly as cheap as they used to be (especially the pickups). Plus most of them have lots of wear and tear on them, and quite a few have seen some good offroad miles (something I'm finding with XJs too). If I found a good, low-mileage 3rd gen 4runner, it'd be hard to pass up. Kevin, want to sell Clara back to me? Or do a partial trade for my current runner?

Steve, based on your list with emphasis on carrying your bikes personally I would go with the Toyota. That is somewhat hard for me to say because I am Jeep through and through but having a shell covered pickup bed for carrying the bikes vs. an SUV is a slight nudge to the top of the list.

Followed closely by the ZJ, again, just my opinion. I have had two ZJ's and both were daily drivers and never left me stranded, even in remote back country locations that we took them to. One issue with these is the crankshaft position sensor. Kind of a PITA to replace so I chose to replace mine in the shop before I had to do it away from home. We purchased a 1996 ZJ for the wife in 1998 after her having an XJ for three years, which she liked, but really liked the ZJ. We had that particular one for a total of 14 years (160k miles driven and flat-towed approx. another 100k miles). It was handed down to my son in 2007 when he got his driver's license and sold it in 2012 when he opted for his LJ. It was a great vehicle and very reliable. I bought a 1996 ZJ in 2008 since we had given the one we were flat towing behind our coach to our son the previous year. They were identical right down the color of exterior and interior. I sold it in 2011 when I built my JKU, it had 185k miles on the odometer and flat towed probably 14k in those three years. The XJ's have a cult like following and although much of the love affair is probably justified, I feel the ZJ is a bit more "plush" and has more "niceties" for a daily driver.

Not a fan of the Rangers or Explorers. I have set up a couple of Explorers for friends to flat-tow but I think there are better options out there. Again, just my opinion based on my experience(s).

Mike.

 

[sixstringsteve]

good feedback mike, thanks. How often do the crankshaft positioning sensors go out?

I'm not a huge fan of explorers either, and I've never driven a ranger.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I dig this setup, especially the bike rack!


[video=youtube;5sgdIaBfyjc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sgdIaBfyjc[/video]

 

[zmotorsports]

good feedback mike, thanks. How often do the crankshaft positioning sensors go out?

I'm not a huge fan of explorers either, and I've never driven a ranger.

Most of the ones I have done have fallen in the 120k-140k mile range. When my wife's hit around the 120k mark I replaced it. When I bought my 1996 ZJ it already had 153k (if memory serves) on it so I changed it immediately.

Mike.

 

[sixstringsteve]

dang, I didn't realize the ZJ stopped in 1998, that really narrows it down and makes it tough to find low mileage examples.

This one looks great, and right in my budget.
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2088506?ad_cid=3

same with this one:
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2100825?ad_cid=9


I wonder if I can fit the mountain bikes in the back...

So, to tow, you just pop the t-case into neutral? Do you have to pop the key in the ignition to unlock the steering? Do these accumulate miles on the OD when they're towed.

 

[zmotorsports]

dang, I didn't realize the ZJ stopped in 1998, that really narrows it down and makes it tough to find low mileage examples.

This one looks great, and right in my budget.
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2088506?ad_cid=3

same with this one:
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2100825?ad_cid=9


I wonder if I can fit the mountain bikes in the back...

So, to tow, you just pop the t-case into neutral? Do you have to pop the key in the ignition to unlock the steering? Do these accumulate miles on the OD when they're towed.

It may be tight getting two bikes in there without scratching them or stacking them one on top of the other. My son machined/fabricated a neat little mount for his that spanned across the rear cargo area with the rear seat folded down flush that the front forks resided in. His mountain bike fit in there nicely with the front wheel removed but at an angle and it was tight.

The ZJ's tow great and they are easy to set up to tow. I don't particularly care for the looks of the auxiliary lights that some people put on their toads. I tapped into the OEM wiring and installed diodes to the rear tail lights and turn signals so they functioned as normal when driving yet when hooked to the coach didn't feed back through the circuit. Simply put the TC in neutral, transmission in park, key in ignition just to the "unlock" position so no reason to have to pull fuses or anything. No current flowing in only the "unlock" position and no miles accumulated on the odometer when flat-towing. Several companies manufacture tow brackets that simply bolt on and protrude through the bumper cover but I don't particularly care for those so I fabricated a new bumper and incorporated the tow points into the bumper.

Here are a few pictures of my 1996 ZJ. Mine was lifted 4" and running 31" tires. My son's was 2" running 30" tires other than that they were identical, right down to the color and wheels and bumper.

During fabrication.

After powder coating and installation. I also added some driving lights. If you look closely you can see the breakaway connector and the wiring connector sunken into the bumper.

Hooked up to the coach on one of the last trips we took it on before selling it and purchasing our 2011 JKU.

I liked the ZJ because is gave us a nice daily driver yet chassis wise was basically a TJ, Dana 30 front, Dana 44 rear, NP231 transfer case standard with NP249(QuadraTrac) or NP242 full-time/part-time transfer cases as options AND a V-8. My wife liked the heated seats, power windows and such so she had the "niceties".

Our 1996 ZJ had the optional NP249 Quadra-Trac transfer case which never really gave us any issues, but the viscous coupler can fail and they are sold as a unit (non-serviceable) so keep that in mind and they are expensive. When my son took the Jeep over, he wanted the NP242 TC so we found a donor vehicle and replaced his transfer case. The hardest part of that swap was locating the interior shift panel with the correct nomenclature on it as we wanted to make it look factory and these panels are hard to come by. Found a couple on ebay but they wanted a fortune as they were discontinued through Jeep/Chrystler. Lucked out and talked to a guy who new a guy who was related to a guy by third wife twice removed and after getting his contact information and meeting him at his home in Bountiful he sold it to my son for $10.00.

Mike.