Why the fear of a Taser

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
I'm not scared of Tasers. I wholeheartedly support their use, if I can't have my next best choice, which is to execute the deserving right on the spot. Tase them, and let them stand trial. Tase them, and let them avoid serious charges like... assaulting a police officer, aggravated murder! etc. Tase them and all the cops go home, and so do the criminals.

I've never understood the argument against their use. Would people against them prefer the alternatives? Batons will flat out FAWK YOU UP. Guns are no good either. So we have on the table an incredibly safe, non-lethal, effective means to end confrontations, but it's not good enough?

Whatever. Tase away!
 

NE_Utah

Active Member
Location
Roosevelt
A small quote from one of the weak news articles from the lawyers post:

"A Chicago medical examiner has ruled that shocks from a Taser were responsible for the death of a man in February, marking the first time that the electronic stun gun has been named as the primary cause of death." "The death is the 18th case in which a coroner has cited Taser as a factor in someone's death and the fourth case where Taser has been named as a cause of death. But in all of those, Taser was secondary to other factors such as drugs, heart conditions or mental illness."

With the wide use of tasers........thats pretty good odds. I took a ride with the taser.....once it's over...instant recovery.

People need to take responsibility for their actions, act civil and realize the highway is not the time and place to dispute a ticket.

With any tool of the trade, it needs to be used right. When it's not used right, then disipline is needed.

I thought the LAWYER could have done alot better proving his point.....citing two news articles was silly.

I think most people would change there mind about tasers once they are placed in the shoes of a LEO......people don't realize how many people want to hurt, kill and mame a LEO to get out of a situation they put THEMSELVES in. That is exactly why I am going to retire....it's not worth it anymore to me. I have had way too many close calls.......I have been shot at, many fights and almost had to shoot a few guys to the point my weapon was at 1/2 hammer.

People just don't realize how dangerous it is. I could give anyone on RME 15-20 feet (most people feel safe at that distance) and I could incapasitate you before you could draw a gun or a taser. Thats how quick things can go bad. (NE_UTAH knows what I am talking about)

I dosen't matter how people feel about tasers.......just like any job in America.....there are good people and bad people in Law Enforcement.

eh.....I am so sick and tired of the BS arguments about tasers, cops ect....

Just don't think you can interupt a Kerry speech and not get tased! Just don't think you can disobey a cops orders and not get tased....do stupid thing and stupid things can happen...

..If you think your dealing with a hot head cop, don't give him a reason to smack you around....fight him in court and most times you will win. (hot head cop are not the smartest tool in the shed)

ok, I am done with the rant


I said public. You raised your right hand a swore. Then you swear everyday for doing that:D


I do know what you are talking about. Benn shot at enough times and shot to shoot a person. It is not a good feeling to deal with.

I have used the M26 and the X26. I like the X26 better. I think I am on about 60 uses and no deaths or hospital trips. But I have had a few chats with Lawers after while they were trying to sue me. The guy I had to shoot just told me after he was sorry he made me do that. I told him I was sorry also. He asked why. I told him it was a long report and I could not go to Moab for vacation:rofl:
 

NE_Utah

Active Member
Location
Roosevelt
A Taser introduces electric impulses to the body which can, and have, caused death.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/15/taser.death/

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0730taser30.html


" An autopsy report from the Cook County's Medical Examiner's Office attributed the death of Ronald Hasse, 54, to electrocution from two Taser jolts delivered by a Chicago police officer. The autopsy said methamphetamines contributed to Hasse's death."

That is from AZ central report.








I'm a lawyer and I know this stuff. Shouldn't you, a LEO who carries and uses a Taser, know what Tasers do better than anyone else?

When you were Tased, were there defib's and people trained in CPR on hand?
Ever wonder why?


What kind of Lawyer are you?
I have never had a defibulator on hand. and we are all CPR cert. I have been tased over 7 times and those lasted the full 5 seconds. I have been shot many more times that have been a few seconds. After everytime all I do is scream and say what a ride. My heart is racing, but when in a gun fight or a high spped chase my heart rate is over 180. The Taser is onle about 120-150. i can function all the way up to 200, not good but I can.


About 3 years ago i was involved in a death after a high speed chase,the man was tased and he died. The mdical report showeed he was loaded full of meth and taser was cleared.
His heart really just gave out after 2 hour case and 15 minutes of fighting.

This is good stuff keep it going please.
 
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Catherine

Mrs. Gardner
Location
Fruita, CO
Instead of suggesting that the training be improved on tasers you should ask if they can train you in writing. Your grammar is horrible not to mention that you started a sentence with a lower case "and". I would hate to be the person that has to read your reports. Learn how to spell!
 

Jeremy

total tacoma points: 162
A small quote from one of the weak news articles from the lawyers post:

"A Chicago medical examiner has ruled that shocks from a Taser were responsible for the death of a man in February, marking the first time that the electronic stun gun has been named as the primary cause of death." "The death is the 18th case in which a coroner has cited Taser as a factor in someone's death and the fourth case where Taser has been named as a cause of death. But in all of those, Taser was secondary to other factors such as drugs, heart conditions or mental illness."

take all the people who have been tazed and total up all the deaths, directly or indirectly caused by the tazer. not sure what the number is, the quote above says 18. now how many of those people whould have been shot if tazers couldnt be used. how many of those people hould have died from the gun shot. im guessing a lot more than the "tazers" have "killed"

taze me 100 times before you pull a gun on me.
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Instead of suggesting that the training be improved on tasers you should ask if they can train you in writing. Your grammar is horrible not to mention that you started a sentence with a lower case "and". I would hate to be the person that has to read your reports. Learn how to spell!


:rofl:
 

spencurai

Vanilla Gorilla
Location
WVC,UT
Instead of suggesting that the training be improved on tasers you should ask if they can train you in writing. Your grammar is horrible not to mention that you started a sentence with a lower case "and". I would hate to be the person that has to read your reports. Learn how to spell!
Uh...Greg's SO is grumpy today!! YEARGH!!!!
 

timpanogos

Push to the Peak
Location
Heber
I would assume that someone would be resisting arrest or physically attacking an officer before they were ever hit with a taser. Should someone be tasered for arguing with an officer … even being belligerent with an officer?

An officer’s use of communication should be used long before the taser comes out.

I read the latest on the Vernal UHP, where taser use was cleared, but communication and criminal actions are still being investigated. If the young man is not charged with resisting arrest, then there is something very wrong with this case (i.e. he should have never been tasered).
 

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
If the young man is not charged with resisting arrest, then there is something very wrong with this case (i.e. he should have never been tasered).

If he's not charged with resisting arrest, I agree with you: something is very wrong, like, he bought a judge or something. Driver was an A-1 Asshat and deserved the Taser.

As before though, cop's verbal skills SUCK.
 
X

XT Utah

Guest
Understanding

I think what we need here is more understanding.

The police understand what it's like to get tazed as part of their training. I haven't yet heard of any lawyers getting tazed as part of theirs.

Now, out of choice I don't do things that would cause me to get tazed.

However, just in case society forces me to get all hopped up on meth, rob some gas stations, rape some teenagers, beat up senior citizens, threaten and argue with a cop and then get tazed, I really want my lawyer to know how it felt he can properly defend me.

Don't misunderstand. I admire lawyers and know that the good ones are highly intelligent. I just want to complete their education by having them all tazed.

(by the way, this education also works for the "lead pipe" flashlights, night sticks, beanbags, pepperspray and bullets - but I don't condone that).
 
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NE_Utah

Active Member
Location
Roosevelt
Good idea XT Utah. let the lawers get the 5 second shake and bake.



I know my spelling sucks, but it is not a report and I am off duty and really don't care. i am just typing and watching TV. When you have to write 12-13 reports a night you need a day off from spelling and everything else.

I do not want this in to a drama fest I just want to know why most of the public is afraid of tasers. i want to know what you guys and gals think of tasers and your thoughts. If you have questions ask me please.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
Good idea XT Utah. let the lawers get the 5 second shake and bake.



I know my spelling sucks, but it is not a report and I am off duty and really don't care. i am just typing and watching TV. When you have to write 12-13 reports a night you need a day off from spelling and everything else.

I do not want this in to a drama fest I just want to know why most of the public is afraid of tasers. i want to know what you guys and gals think of tasers and your thoughts. If you have questions ask me please.


No, usually when you have to deal with writing and comprehension it becomes second nature and you don't have to think about doing it.

As for fear of the taser, I don't fear the taser, I fear the cops that carry the tasers. It seems cops are using tasers more and more for stupid things. If you think sending and electric shock through the body is "safe" by any means then you are a moron, especially enough of a shock that will put you on to the ground. An electric shock through the body will stop the heart (what do you think a defibrillator does?)
 

StrobeNGH

no user title
Location
WB
My thanks to Redbulltj, NE_Utah, and XT Utah for their responses.

I apologize for not providing sufficient proof to satisfy Redbulltj, but the point of those two "silly" articles was not to prove my case. They were to respond to NE_Utah's original challenge of providing facts where Tasers have been involved in deaths (or did you not even bother to read the original post before attacking me?).


My point was, and is, that Tasers do have an element of danger to them and ought to be used with caution.

Does anyone remember the good old days when all an officer had with them was their wheel gun, some hand cuffs, and a night-stick?
Then along came OC/Pepper spray and the race was on to find more "less lethal" technology. Tasers are the latest in this quest to provide officers with "less lethal" technology that will protect the officer and/or make their jobs easier.

I'm all for protecting those who protect us, but I do not like the crutch mentality that has popped up in law enforcement recently.

Here is a test: think of the tools that the standard police officer takes with him/her to work every day.

What did you come up with?
Gun
Knife
Baton/Asp
Taser
Cuffs
Gloves
Radio
OC/Pepper spray
Bullet-proof vest
Light

feel free to add to, or take away from as you wish, but did anyone think to add "BRAIN" to that list?


Take the UHP Tasing incident in Vernal:
Did this officer use his head in the situation? Did he know who this kid was? Did he know what he was like? Did he know that he was just some spoiled punk who didn't pose a real threat to his safety?
I don't know the answers to these questions, but I'm sure there are some here who do.

Now, was the taser used to protect the safety of the officer or others, or was the taser used because this idiot wouldn't do what the officer told him to do?

Was the taser used because the officer had cold hands, or hot ears?
Was it used out of fear or anger?

The usage of the taser was proper, but was it necessary?

Did the officer use his head in the situation?


Or this:
An officer responds AGAIN to a DV call. The officer doesn't like the family, and states in his report that the family is difficult, and one girl in particular is "out of control, disruptive, and disrespectful."
So the officer is told this 15 year old girl has attacked someone AGAIN . . . he shows up and puts her into custody for the alleged assault, even though her parents are telling the cop that nothing happened, and that he needs to let her go.
IS THIS A PROBLEM?
The cop puts the girl into cuffs and starts leading her away, but the mother is still holding onto the girls arm, and tells her husband to come give the girl a hug before she is taken away.
The father takes a step to give his daughter a hug, and the cop yanks the little girl off the porch, dragging the mother off the porch. The cop then claims that the mother pushed him, and arrests her and the father.

Does it make matters worse if I say that the 15 year old is mentally handicapped, and that the officer knew this BEFORE responding?

Did this cop use his head?
His actions were deemed appropriate, but DID HE USE HIS HEAD!?!?!?!?

When the cop in the above incident responded he KNEW that the mother had already called a crisis intervention line to get help with her daughter. He knew that the alleged victim was just fine, and he knew that the daughter was under control (the girl can fly off the handle at times, and has violent tendencies, but she was calm and under control when he showed up).



Again, I think it is fantastic that we have the technology to provide all of our officers with Tasers. They really are a great alternative to other means of force.
There is nothing worse than having to maim someone, or even worse, take someone's life.
I think that the taser is a great gift to us all because of the alternatives it opens up.

BUT:
Tasers can be dangerous.
I don't care how slight the dangers are, ANY AND ALL DANGERS MUST BE CONSIDERED AND ACCOUNTED FOR!!!

When you deploy a taser, are you fully aware of the medical condition of the suspect?
Do you know if the person has a medical condition which would make the taser deployment fatal?
Do you think it is the safest thing to introduce electrical currents into your body?

The taser is a very safe and effective alternative, BUT IT IS NOT 100% SAFE!
THAT is a fact.


I think it is great that our officers, and others, are trained in the use of tasers, but what I would LOVE to see is some good ole' fashioned training that teaches officers to use their heads, and not rely on crutches.

Tasers and OC/Pepper spray have become crutches to many in law enforcement, and it frustrates me to see people singing the praises of these new technologies while they seem to ignore the old fashioned technique of using one's head and deeming if the battle really is worth fighting.

Going back to the Vernal UHP incident:
The use of the Taser was proper according to the UHP's guidelines, but was it necessary?
Could the situation have been avoided?
Would more training have helped the officer learn that there are other more effective alternatives (like writing refused to sign on the ticket and letting the kid go)?


It does scare me that so many officers are unaware of the dangers these tools pose, or worse yet, are unconcerned with these dangers because of the slight risk they carry.

I don't care how slight the risk is, if there is a risk people should be well aware of and fully appreciate what the risk is and the dangers it imposes.

It also scares me that so many are using these new and wonderful tools as a crutch and/or substitution for using their heads.
A suspect refuses to comply with an order. Does the officer swallow his pride and be patient with the suspect until he/she complies, or does the officer get angry and deploy their Taser or OC/Pepper spray?

That's my point, and that is what scares me.
My apologies if I did not state this clearer in my first post, or if I failed to provide sufficient proof to meet the heavy burden of stating my opinion about something.




P.S. May I echo Catherine's sentiments:
To all officers: please read over your reports before submitting them!
Read them out loud, and see if they make sense before submitting them!

Some of these reports are truly painful to read.
 
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StrobeNGH

no user title
Location
WB
And if it would help me do my job better I would be willing to be Tased . . .

But if this is just an excuse to take a shot on lawyers: why don't you go ahead and go through law school, study for, and take the bar.

Looking back, I would have much rather been Tased than go through the last 8 years again.

Good idea XT Utah. let the lawers get the 5 second shake and bake.
 

Amy

Limited Supply Of Sanity
Location
!
Instead of suggesting that the training be improved on tasers you should ask if they can train you in writing. Your grammar is horrible not to mention that you started a sentence with a lower case "and". I would hate to be the person that has to read your reports. Learn how to spell!

hahahahaha....NICE!!:greg::rofl:
 

StrobeNGH

no user title
Location
WB
Actually, if he isn't charged with resisting arrest it could be because of concern over potential civil suits.

Right or wrong, this is bad press for the UHP. They may want it to quietly go away. Not filing charges would be a good way to do that, and offer an olive branch to the kid in the hopes that he doesn't sue.
And remember: being sued is expensive. Most civil suits settle before trial. They don't usually settle because the defendant did something wrong; they settle because the defendant knows how expensive litigation can be, and offers the plaintiff a fraction of what they would spend on litigation . . .


I would assume that someone would be resisting arrest or physically attacking an officer before they were ever hit with a taser. Should someone be tasered for arguing with an officer … even being belligerent with an officer?

An officer’s use of communication should be used long before the taser comes out.

I read the latest on the Vernal UHP, where taser use was cleared, but communication and criminal actions are still being investigated. If the young man is not charged with resisting arrest, then there is something very wrong with this case (i.e. he should have never been tasered).
 

redbulltj

I'm a cutter
My point was, and is, that Tasers do have an element of danger to them and ought to be used with caution. Here is a test: think of the tools that the standard police officer takes with him/her to work every day. The taser is a very safe and effective alternative, BUT IT IS NOT 100% SAFE! THAT is a fact.

I think it is great that our officers, and others, are trained in the use of tasers, but what I would LOVE to see is some good ole' fashioned training that teaches officers to use their heads, and not rely on crutches.

Tasers and OC/Pepper spray have become crutches to many in law enforcement, and it frustrates me to see people singing the praises of these new technologies while they seem to ignore the old fashioned technique of using one's head and deeming if the battle really is worth fighting.

I edited the above quotes:

Are Tasers 100% safe? No. As a LEO, what is the first tool you bring to an incident? Training/Brain. Do we have bad LEOs? yes, a few too many.

It is far to easy to "arm chair quaterback" an incident after the fact. The use of force is based on a few things like Officer perception and suspect actions.

Perception being the key. I may perceive danger as others may not. Everything boils down to proper employment of the taser and proper training, period.

I don't think tasers and OC are crutches to 95% of the LEOs out there on the street. The more tools in your garage the better the outcome of your product......Safer Police, Safer public.

Lots of training and the use of your brain will allow a LEO to make proper decisions in the heat of the moment.

The media has forced these issues into our faces, lets face it, it's a small world these days due to communications being almost instant. This will bring change to Police agencies, better training and keeping people honest.

Remember being stupid, brings the stupid. In the Utah incident, the kid was stupid and in turn the Cop acted stupid. Not excusing the Cops actions but I am sure if the kid acted the right way the cop would have acted the right way.

When I get stopped by LEOs (yes, sometimes I deserved to get pulled over) I act very slow and deliberate. I keep my hands on the wheel and put on my interior light at night. I also ask permission to get me wallet and I alway tell the LEO where I am reaching.

I do this to keep myself from being shot from some Cop who had a bad day because he caught his wife in bed with the mailman. Everbody makes mistakes.....and I am not going to be the Cop's mistake.
 
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redbulltj

I'm a cutter
Actually, if he isn't charged with resisting arrest it could be because of concern over potential civil suits. Right or wrong, this is bad press for the UHP. They may want it to quietly go away. Not filing charges would be a good way to do that, and offer an olive branch to the kid in the hopes that he doesn't sue. And remember: being sued is expensive. Most civil suits settle before trial. They don't usually settle because the defendant did something wrong; they settle because the defendant knows how expensive litigation can be, and offers the plaintiff a fraction of what they would spend on litigation . . .

Well said.

Also, people should fear the taser! When I got hit with it in training....it was the most terrible, painful and controlling thing I have even been through. I say controlling because it will make it impossible for you to fight during the "hit." But, once it is over you have instant recovery.

Now anytime I hear the sparking of a taser, I tremble and sweat....no joke.
 
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waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Even though a taser could be potentially deadly, the gun is deadly. So on one hand you have a potential and the other a certainty. And your gun should only be pulled if you entend on using it. So that there increases your odds that you won't be alive tomorrow. Also, their instructed to aim for center mass, your chest. That increases your odds even more of living for tomorrow.

Like it or not, tasers are much safer than a gun. I undestand you when you say they can't be used like Pez despensers, but when it comes down to their use it's better than the alternative. 99.9% both parties will go home and see their families afterwards....
 
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