I am trying to make smart decisions about the next upgrade to the ride. i wonder about lockers, powertrax or auburn e lockers, arb lockers are very common but what are the down sides. also would you do a locker or taller tires first. i am thinking 33 1250s. I am just trying to build a solid jeep that can be driven daily but can handle itself on the trail too. last questions has any one done a budget boost on top of a 2.5 in lift? Please let me know your thoughts.
xj looking at upgrades
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sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
what size tires do you have right now? I think the first mod should always be rock sliders, then it just gets expensive from there. 
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Ram-on-Rocks!
Member
You probably have the Dana 30 up front, 8 1/4 or more commonly the Dana 35 rear. If you put lockers in them you will have to be careful with your driving characterstics on certain terrain. I had an xj with an ARB up front. Having a selectable locker is definitely a plus. If you go ARB you will have onboard air also so you can air up your tires when done wheeling. I currently have an ARB in the front of my Dodge and have not had any problems with it. I rock crawl it pretty hard too. As far as the lift, we had a 4 inch short arm lift from a company that no longer exists. I had to cut the fenders 2.5 inches up front and 1.5 in the rear to fit 33's in there comfortable enough to stuff. Daily driver too. I'll post pic. Good luck with the build.
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sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
contrary to what a lot of people think, taller lifts don't always make a vehicle more capable. if you can keep it low like ram-on-rocks and cut the fenders to fit your tires, you'll have a lower center of gravity and have more stability when you're on a side-hill.
TJDukit
I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S.
- Location
- Clearfield
X2 on the sliders first. Sliders, bumpers and skid plates to me make smaller tires seem "larger" because you can stop worrying about clearance issues so much. If you take care of the body and underside protection first you can wheel it much harder with less worry.
Dana 30 up front will handle a locker just fine for larger tires, with 35's being the upper limit to what I and many others would consider comfortable. Unless you got lucky and have a Dana 44 in the rear I wouldn't run anything larger than 33's with a locker. Even 33's with a rear locker you will need to take it easy on that D35 or Chrysler 8.25"
Build order for me on something like this would be
Sliders
Bumpers(with good recover points)
Skid plates
Steering component upgrades.
Then wheel the crap out of it until you figure out what you want next. I say steering upgrade because the stock crap on the TJ's and XJ's is pitiful and will break and bend very easy if you hit a rock the wrong way.
Lift means larger tires and that goes the other way around.
Larger tires usually means re-gearing for drive ability.
A 2.5" budget boost will probably give you cleance for 31's if I remember correctly on the XJ's and probably wouldn't "Need" a re-gear. It also wouldn't ruin your ride quality IMO.
A good set of 31" tires and some lockers along with the body protection will get that thing most places you would want to take it and not have to worry about if you are gonna make it home or not.
Dana 30 up front will handle a locker just fine for larger tires, with 35's being the upper limit to what I and many others would consider comfortable. Unless you got lucky and have a Dana 44 in the rear I wouldn't run anything larger than 33's with a locker. Even 33's with a rear locker you will need to take it easy on that D35 or Chrysler 8.25"
Build order for me on something like this would be
Sliders
Bumpers(with good recover points)
Skid plates
Steering component upgrades.
Then wheel the crap out of it until you figure out what you want next. I say steering upgrade because the stock crap on the TJ's and XJ's is pitiful and will break and bend very easy if you hit a rock the wrong way.
Lift means larger tires and that goes the other way around.
Larger tires usually means re-gearing for drive ability.
A 2.5" budget boost will probably give you cleance for 31's if I remember correctly on the XJ's and probably wouldn't "Need" a re-gear. It also wouldn't ruin your ride quality IMO.
A good set of 31" tires and some lockers along with the body protection will get that thing most places you would want to take it and not have to worry about if you are gonna make it home or not.
I've had literally about 16 XJ's through the years. The most capable I've owned was an '88 which had 3" front springs with a 2" spacer and some good quality used shocks, with a Rubicon Express adjustable track bar. The rear was just 3" springs with grease-able lift shackles. I installed 4.56 gears and lunchbox lockers front and rear and pulled the sway bars off. I had to trim/flatten the wheel wells to fit the 33x13.50x15 Super Swampers. I also had some RigidCo rock rails. I sourced all the parts used from locals and was in to the whole thing under $2K. We ran Pritchett, Behind the Rocks, Golden Spike, etc without breaking a sweat.
Except for the howling, bouncy tires it was very streetable and still put out a respectable 16-17 MPG on the freeway. I think 5" of lift and 33's is really a great, cheap XJ recipe. And get the sliders for sure!
Good luck!
Jared
Except for the howling, bouncy tires it was very streetable and still put out a respectable 16-17 MPG on the freeway. I think 5" of lift and 33's is really a great, cheap XJ recipe. And get the sliders for sure!
Good luck!
Jared
TJDukit
I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S.
- Location
- Clearfield
This could be a good start for you.
http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?92348-4-5-lift-for-cherokee
http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?92348-4-5-lift-for-cherokee
Seven
Active Member
- Location
- Ogden southside
X2 I agree with all the above other than the 8.25 being at it limits at 33 and a locker. I have seen lots of 29 spline chrysler 8.25 live up to 35's and a locker. If you have a D35 rearend, that would be one of the first things that I would upgrade.
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
I too have had a million XJ's... and built a few out to the stooopid end of the spectrum.
for a DD 33's are a good middle ground. 4.5" lift will do it.
Get sliders.
trim the rear quarter panels (cut and fold mod)
Trim the front and rear fenders.
gears and lockers
Join NAXJA.org and Cherokeeforum.com
The Auburn ected locker has had many problems in the past; avoid it.
you very likely (based upon you profile pic) have a chrysler 8.25 rear. 29 spline. It's good up to 35's just fine.
for a DD 33's are a good middle ground. 4.5" lift will do it.
Get sliders.
trim the rear quarter panels (cut and fold mod)
Trim the front and rear fenders.
gears and lockers
Join NAXJA.org and Cherokeeforum.com
The Auburn ected locker has had many problems in the past; avoid it.
you very likely (based upon you profile pic) have a chrysler 8.25 rear. 29 spline. It's good up to 35's just fine.
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Sliders for sure.
upgraded track bar (that should come with any good long arm kit)
oh wow building an xj... that's a can of worms.
I am a firm believer in don't put anything in that you will have to re-do in a few years (With broncos I saw too many people buy a nice set of wheels and tires and a small lift kit, in couple of years they upgraded to a d-60 then had to sell off their nice wheels since they then needed 8 lug wheels. Same thing would be with putting all kinds of money into an axle and a few years later upgrading to stronger axle, it would have been better just to put the stronger axle in from the get go)
You need to decide how nuts you are going to go with this rig and how long you want to keep it. If you want to keep it a long time or go nuts with it (35+ inch tires and beat it up hard off road) you need to re-enforce the uni-body before anything. ruffstuff specialties and others make great uni-body stiffeners. The way I thought about it was what good does it do to have all the best stuff on an xj if it is all hanging off of thin sheet metal that will eventually tear apart. Badger on here accounted how when he dis-mantled his xj how many tears and cracks were in the uni-body. With an xj it is all about spreading the load.
I would highly recommend these sliders and bumpers. The price is good, the quality is probably better than any other xj stuff. Call him, he does respond to email but he an older guy that works out of his garage so phone is the better way to get him. If you get to see his jigs and talk to him it will blow your mind how much thought he has put into his products.
(of course if you do sliders before you do frame stiffeners they will be in the way when you do add stiffeners.)
http://www.rigidco.com/
I think that a lot of the frame stress comes from the leafs in back. I don't know that I would recommend doing a rear coil conversion, but I think you need to think about the stress of flexing the rear with leafs. The doors and hatch on my xj open and close just fine while flexed out, that shows the uni-body is not flexing nearly as much as xj's with leafs. Leafs are much more stable off road, so if you do a coil conversion in the rear plan on some kind of off road sway bar or you will feel super tippy.
The great thing about xj's and most jeeps, is that there is a ton of aftermarket products and a lot of them are really good. I get some flack on here for buying more than building, but I would rather finish my rig in a year than 5 years.
If I didn't have anything and was to start with a bone stock xj I think this is what I would do:
frame stiffeners
sliders, bumpers
good long arm kit front, DIY long arm kit rear
tie all that together so the xj has one solid frame front to rear.
build up the front axle, run a ford 8.8 in the rear
run as little lift as possible, bump stop it to keep the axles/tires out of everything
hydro-assist steering with seriously upgraded linkage.
keep motor, tranny, tcase (maybe upgrade tcase, there are many things that can be done to that case)
keep the a/c (and roof doors... but I am 35 I like my a/c so...)
add on board air
run 35 inch tires carry spare parts for the front axle
re-gear and install Zip, or eaton e-lockers
having said that I went nuts and had a big budget, here is my build thread...
http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?83436-Nathan-and-Tanja-s-99-XJ-Build-up
nathan
upgraded track bar (that should come with any good long arm kit)
oh wow building an xj... that's a can of worms.
I am a firm believer in don't put anything in that you will have to re-do in a few years (With broncos I saw too many people buy a nice set of wheels and tires and a small lift kit, in couple of years they upgraded to a d-60 then had to sell off their nice wheels since they then needed 8 lug wheels. Same thing would be with putting all kinds of money into an axle and a few years later upgrading to stronger axle, it would have been better just to put the stronger axle in from the get go)
You need to decide how nuts you are going to go with this rig and how long you want to keep it. If you want to keep it a long time or go nuts with it (35+ inch tires and beat it up hard off road) you need to re-enforce the uni-body before anything. ruffstuff specialties and others make great uni-body stiffeners. The way I thought about it was what good does it do to have all the best stuff on an xj if it is all hanging off of thin sheet metal that will eventually tear apart. Badger on here accounted how when he dis-mantled his xj how many tears and cracks were in the uni-body. With an xj it is all about spreading the load.
I would highly recommend these sliders and bumpers. The price is good, the quality is probably better than any other xj stuff. Call him, he does respond to email but he an older guy that works out of his garage so phone is the better way to get him. If you get to see his jigs and talk to him it will blow your mind how much thought he has put into his products.
(of course if you do sliders before you do frame stiffeners they will be in the way when you do add stiffeners.)
http://www.rigidco.com/
I think that a lot of the frame stress comes from the leafs in back. I don't know that I would recommend doing a rear coil conversion, but I think you need to think about the stress of flexing the rear with leafs. The doors and hatch on my xj open and close just fine while flexed out, that shows the uni-body is not flexing nearly as much as xj's with leafs. Leafs are much more stable off road, so if you do a coil conversion in the rear plan on some kind of off road sway bar or you will feel super tippy.
The great thing about xj's and most jeeps, is that there is a ton of aftermarket products and a lot of them are really good. I get some flack on here for buying more than building, but I would rather finish my rig in a year than 5 years.
If I didn't have anything and was to start with a bone stock xj I think this is what I would do:
frame stiffeners
sliders, bumpers
good long arm kit front, DIY long arm kit rear
tie all that together so the xj has one solid frame front to rear.
build up the front axle, run a ford 8.8 in the rear
run as little lift as possible, bump stop it to keep the axles/tires out of everything
hydro-assist steering with seriously upgraded linkage.
keep motor, tranny, tcase (maybe upgrade tcase, there are many things that can be done to that case)
keep the a/c (and roof doors... but I am 35 I like my a/c so...)
add on board air
run 35 inch tires carry spare parts for the front axle
re-gear and install Zip, or eaton e-lockers
having said that I went nuts and had a big budget, here is my build thread...
http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?83436-Nathan-and-Tanja-s-99-XJ-Build-up
nathan
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do you consider mine "out to the stoopid end of the spectrum"
just wondering
Thanks
Nathan
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
um yup
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
Ram-on-Rocks!
Member
I love xj's, just can't go crazy with them due to the unibody construction. If you ever want to run 1 ton axles your going to have to cage it and put in sub-frame connectors to keep the body from getting destroyed. Just with the 4 inch lift and 33's we would notice that our doors wouldn't fit the same after a heavy wheeling trip.
i run a 3" (or smaller) lift with 33x12.50's and have never wished it was taller. it takes quite a bit of cutting and a bit of bumpstopping but it's easy and worth it.
i'd do rocker replacements (sliders) and throw an aussie locker in the rear and take it wheeling. i'd also suggest recovery points on the front and rear.
i could never suggest selectable lockers on an xj because they are just too much $$$
i'd do rocker replacements (sliders) and throw an aussie locker in the rear and take it wheeling. i'd also suggest recovery points on the front and rear.
i could never suggest selectable lockers on an xj because they are just too much $$$
My favorite XJ modification is the one where you sell it and buy something that wont require a complete redesign simply to run decent size tires.
Seriously though, anything more than a daily driver is going to require all kinds of beefing up this and reinforcing that is unheard of for most other vehicles. Just sayin...
Seriously though, anything more than a daily driver is going to require all kinds of beefing up this and reinforcing that is unheard of for most other vehicles. Just sayin...
I would agree with the above, The best upgrades I have done to mine IMO would be
sliders (I love the sliders, I welded them to the stiffeners and am very happy with that choice)
frame stiffeners (front bumper to back bumper)
Steering upgrades (steering box brace from side-side, a steel steering box spacer on inner rail)
bumpers (I never realized how nice it really is with actual steel bumpers you can slam into without worrying about them)
Lockers (F+R, but picking one I would lock the rear and keep the stress off the D30 and keep easier steering. assuming you have the 29 spline 8.25)
Shackle relocation brackets for the rear shackle angle (added some flex but made the ride on/off road a TON better. I love leafs in the rear lol)
I have done tons more then that and its still a constant project lol. I love my XJ, its perfect for me. However they are a lot of work(like any money pit), I have learned to do one thing I have to do 2-3 more... anyhow Naxja.org and Cherokeeforum.com are good sources to XJ builds and info from mild to wild. they both also have Local groups who run almost ONLY XJ's and can give you ideas in person of what you like/dis like and help you skip things you might have though you wanted.
If you want to see mine for ideas its here - My 2000 XJ
If you have the D35 rear axle, its a good idea to get rid of it before you put money into it at all. good options are (tire size is a general statement and does depend on driver)
Chrysler 8.25 from 97-01 XJ. Bolts in, cheap, and just a hair shy of D44 strength (good for 35's)
XJ D44 from 87-89 XJ. Bolts in, expensive, Tons of aftermarket support and options(most say good for 35's, some say 37's)
Ford 8.8 from 96+ ford explorer(31 spline) needs brackets welded on to fit, brake lines connected/redone. has disk brakes and is cheap compared to the D44 but stronger(most say 37's, some say to 38's)
these will allow you to Keep the D30. Some say thats ok, some say its a waste. I jumped to waggy D44's and I am glad I did. But I had 35's in mind from the start with possible 37's later... I would read, read, read, on what the options are in your budget. Take it out and enjoy it how it sits and see what is holding you back from what you want to do in it. Last trip to moab I had, there was an XJ with 31's 3.5" lift locked rear diff and sliders, we ran hell revenge, moab rim, cliffhanger and metal masher without issues. Don't rush the process, just make sure every step is a good one and wont have to be redone later.
sliders (I love the sliders, I welded them to the stiffeners and am very happy with that choice)
frame stiffeners (front bumper to back bumper)
Steering upgrades (steering box brace from side-side, a steel steering box spacer on inner rail)
bumpers (I never realized how nice it really is with actual steel bumpers you can slam into without worrying about them)
Lockers (F+R, but picking one I would lock the rear and keep the stress off the D30 and keep easier steering. assuming you have the 29 spline 8.25)
Shackle relocation brackets for the rear shackle angle (added some flex but made the ride on/off road a TON better. I love leafs in the rear lol)
I have done tons more then that and its still a constant project lol. I love my XJ, its perfect for me. However they are a lot of work(like any money pit), I have learned to do one thing I have to do 2-3 more... anyhow Naxja.org and Cherokeeforum.com are good sources to XJ builds and info from mild to wild. they both also have Local groups who run almost ONLY XJ's and can give you ideas in person of what you like/dis like and help you skip things you might have though you wanted.
If you want to see mine for ideas its here - My 2000 XJ
If you have the D35 rear axle, its a good idea to get rid of it before you put money into it at all. good options are (tire size is a general statement and does depend on driver
) Chrysler 8.25 from 97-01 XJ. Bolts in, cheap, and just a hair shy of D44 strength (good for 35's)
XJ D44 from 87-89 XJ. Bolts in, expensive, Tons of aftermarket support and options(most say good for 35's, some say 37's)
Ford 8.8 from 96+ ford explorer(31 spline) needs brackets welded on to fit, brake lines connected/redone. has disk brakes and is cheap compared to the D44 but stronger(most say 37's, some say to 38's)
these will allow you to Keep the D30. Some say thats ok, some say its a waste. I jumped to waggy D44's and I am glad I did. But I had 35's in mind from the start with possible 37's later... I would read, read, read, on what the options are in your budget. Take it out and enjoy it how it sits and see what is holding you back from what you want to do in it. Last trip to moab I had, there was an XJ with 31's 3.5" lift locked rear diff and sliders, we ran hell revenge, moab rim, cliffhanger and metal masher without issues. Don't rush the process, just make sure every step is a good one and wont have to be redone later.
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