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Totally valid, and nothing hard about it. For the sake of the stock j**p owner, they don't want to be on a 5. So we're back to stopping bypasses before they begin. Although, I did see a near stock TJ (2" spacers and 31" tires) go all the way to the waterfall one time (on the trail, not the...

That's what I was asking, but I didn't want to make it read bad so that I'd get attacked. So did someone make it that way by moving boulders around, or had it just deteriorated to that condition after decades without use? I don't see the problem with having a hard trail, and I don't think...

So was it wasn't always a 5?

Right on. Please post up with info. How long ago was the trail "established"? Who originally found it and how? etc, etc.

How was it installed?

Good luck with that. We'd have a better chance (and better results) dragging a concrete road barrier up there. We should just start with buck-n-pole fences and some official looking signs. See how long it is before they are removed. Something permanent would be ideal, but might take some...

I guess I'm just ignorant.

So to the right of the tree is the bypass? I never knew.

Just to be clear, I'm not in favor of illegal bypasses. I'm definitely not in favor of cutting bypasses like an idiot. I'm saying that if the bypass is there then it's there, and we're going to have to expend a great deal of energy to remove it. Is it always worth it, or should we use that...

Maybe an RME trail patrol is in order? Considering that someone from RME is up at the snakes almost every weekend, might as well get a little formal about it and start kicking people's arses for doing damage to the trails.

I don't think anyone is advocating that taking the bypasses as part of the trail is ok. In a perfect situation, the bypasses would never have been created in the first place. You're not really conquering a 5+ (or by James K's rating a 4) trail by taking all the bypasses. It seems that the...

Some of the guys did, and I stayed around long enough to watch the first truck get stuck in that hole. I see what you're saying, and it totally makes sense. I'm not sure how we solve the problem, but I understand it better. Thanks for the info.

Telling people about trails IS a good thing. It's not your fault if people don't respect the land.

I'm sure I'll get completely blasted, but... What's wrong with having a few bypasses on that trail? We had a truck stuck on the first obstacle, and used the bypass to bring another truck up to pull out the first truck. Sure, the first guy shouldn't have gotten stuck, but if the bypass...

Yeah, that would appear to be a hurdle. It's kinda like the boy who cried wolf. The govt told everyone that the tests were safe (OBVIOUSLY they weren't). Now, why should anyone believe that modern reactor designs are safe when the DOE says so.

Uhhh? Oh I see. An 11 year old has gotten access to James K's account. Now it makes sense.

Just to clarify, we shouldn't make comments that could be classified as such. That doesn't mean that you are a dumba$$ redneck. I fear that being logical with you is wasted at this point.

I was just re-reading the posts you linked to. I stand by all that as well. By the way, I've been involved with U4WDA for over a year, and still haven't seen a current financial statement.

Look closer: Business Memberships and Sponsor Opportunities: Please contact Steve Jackson for information about becoming a U4WDA business member or sponsor. Business members and sponsors receive advertising in our quarterly magazine The Compass and a link on U4WDA.org.

What the heck are you talking about? You made some stupid comments and I responded. I stand by that. We shouldn't make dumba$$, redneck comments in public forums where our enemies can use our own words against us. If you want to step and support U4WDA, then contact Steve Jackson and get a...