Bronco II Help!!
- Thread starter MadMike
- Start date
TJDukit
I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S.
- Location
- Clearfield
But if the BII was so great why did it have such a short production run?
skiboarder
SkiBoarder
- Location
- No Ogden
Ok. But lets mak this fair. Take everyting off your rig down to were you only have $3000 into it. That includes the price of the base vehicle. Then we will be about even in investment. I will be happy to go then. I can't compete with a $30000-50000 rig.
I would love to see those sales numbers...
Also if they sold more then jeeps why don't more people wheel them?
Lets be fair here a toyota with a 3k budget would beat anything.
Here is why http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Bronco_II
2.9 L Cologne V-6. As with most engines, overheating the engine could lead to cracks in the cylinder head between the valve springs or at the base of the rocker shaft pedestals. This results in internal coolant leaks causing contamination of the oil, which if not caught in time causes severe internal engine damage.
The Bronco II was dogged by targeted reports that it was prone to rollovers.[SUP][1][/SUP]
Some of the headlines in 1989-90 included "NHTSA Investigates Bronco II Rollovers," Automotive News (March 20, 1989)
"Magazine Gives Ford's Bronco II 'Avoid' Rating," The Wall Street Journal (May 8, 1989),
and "Consumer Reports Criticizes Ford Bronco II's Handling," The Washington Post (May 18, 1989).
After analysis of SUV crashes of the Suzuki Samurai, the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) opened a formal study of the Ford Bronco II in 1989. There were 43 Bronco II rollover fatalities in 1987, compared with 8 for the Samurai, but accident data in four states showed the Bronco II’s rollover rate was similar to that of other SUVs, so the investigation was closed. NHTSA declined to reopen the investigation in 1997 after more Bronco II crashes.[SUP][2]
[/SUP]
Ford settled a lawsuit by famed jockey Bill Shoemaker, awarding him one million dollars. Shoemaker was paralyzed from the neck down after rolling his Bronco II in California in 1991. Thereafter, he was confined to a wheelchair.
There were, however, reports that the Bronco II's suspension contained a design flaw that, when turning, forced the side of the vehicle on the outside of the turn upwards, opposite of what a safe suspension should do.[SUP][3][/SUP] The Bronco II was not only top heavy, but it forced itself over. "In a hard turn, this suspension will cause the front end of the vehicle to rise and the track width to decrease, making the vehicle taller and narrower and elevating the center of gravity."[SUP][3][/SUP] Ford engineers "suggested various changes that would have reduced the chance of rollovers, but these recommendations were ignored by the company."[SUP][3][/SUP] Documented evidence showed that Ford knew about this problem, but found it less expensive to hire a team of lawyers to prepare for the oncoming lawsuits before the vehicle was even released, than to make the investment for a costly redesign.[SUP][3][/SUP]
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TJDukit
I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S.
- Location
- Clearfield
I don't need wikipedia to tell me how "awesome" the BII is. There was an astronomical 6 year production run and they finally figured out so many of the weak points by the end when they realized there really wasn't a market for them anymore with the Explorer as a replacement for the soccer mom SUV.
The TTB suspension set up is such a limiting factor that prevents a good wheeler without serious modification.
The TTB suspension set up is such a limiting factor that prevents a good wheeler without serious modification.
skiboarder
SkiBoarder
- Location
- No Ogden
The Vw after market is world wide. They are huge in australia, south africa, germany (of course), and the US and Canada. Not mention South america. Where, until recently they were being produced. The lions share of the market for Jeeps is north america. I don't have those numbers. I am going off of what I have expierenced.
On the same idea. With how many jeeps, and toyotas have been sold. With suspension kits on them. Why don't very many people wheel them. You are right about the fact that more people wheel jeeps. You are also talking about the utah and western market. People of different geographics wheel different vehicles. In some places you see more trucks then anything else. BIIs were never advertised as a back country vehicle.
You can't touch a toyota for $3000. They hold their resale really high.
I am not sure why they cancelled the BII run so early. But they took the same suspension and put it under explorers and rangers. Now if it was that bad why were those still being produced. The exploder had a problem but, it was proved not to be the suspension. It was said to be the tires.
Mine has explorer suspension Which includes the (STUPID DESIGN) TTBin front. The rear is a ford 8.8. Highly sought after for jeep upgrades.The 2.9 boat anchor has been replaced with a 4.0, and a M5OD HDR1 tranny.
On the same idea. With how many jeeps, and toyotas have been sold. With suspension kits on them. Why don't very many people wheel them. You are right about the fact that more people wheel jeeps. You are also talking about the utah and western market. People of different geographics wheel different vehicles. In some places you see more trucks then anything else. BIIs were never advertised as a back country vehicle.
You can't touch a toyota for $3000. They hold their resale really high.
I am not sure why they cancelled the BII run so early. But they took the same suspension and put it under explorers and rangers. Now if it was that bad why were those still being produced. The exploder had a problem but, it was proved not to be the suspension. It was said to be the tires.
Mine has explorer suspension Which includes the (STUPID DESIGN) TTBin front. The rear is a ford 8.8. Highly sought after for jeep upgrades.The 2.9 boat anchor has been replaced with a 4.0, and a M5OD HDR1 tranny.
skiboarder
SkiBoarder
- Location
- No Ogden
Really!!! I looked and found nothing. Were they super rusted?
P.S. I posted another thread about a meet and greet. Check it out.
1985 toyota 4runner straight axle with efi Offer 2K
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/473949?ad_cid=1
High steer 349$
http://www.trail-gear.com/high-steer-kits
Dual cases 500$
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=25024560&cat=&lpid=1&search=t-case&ad_cid=3
tires to keep in budget 150$
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=24920850&cat=&lpid=&search=33/12.5r15&ad_cid=1
weld the rear third for a locker Free!
that right there would out wheel a B2.
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/473949?ad_cid=1
High steer 349$
http://www.trail-gear.com/high-steer-kits
Dual cases 500$
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=25024560&cat=&lpid=1&search=t-case&ad_cid=3
tires to keep in budget 150$
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=24920850&cat=&lpid=&search=33/12.5r15&ad_cid=1
weld the rear third for a locker Free!
that right there would out wheel a B2.
TJDukit
I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S.
- Location
- Clearfield
Nice.
TJDukit
I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S.
- Location
- Clearfield
But it would be a cookie cutter so its not acceptable
skiboarder
SkiBoarder
- Location
- No Ogden
I never said cookie cutter.
TJDukit
I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S.
- Location
- Clearfield
I'm just pointing out that some people would consider it cookie cutter. Not you though you seem more accepting.
1985 toyota 4runner straight axle with efi Offer 2K
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/473949?ad_cid=1
High steer 349$
http://www.trail-gear.com/high-steer-kits
Dual cases 500$
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=25024560&cat=&lpid=1&search=t-case&ad_cid=3
tires to keep in budget 150$
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=24920850&cat=&lpid=&search=33/12.5r15&ad_cid=1
weld the rear third for a locker Free!
that right there would out wheel a B2.
Not to mention that it only took me 15 minutes to find that stuff. Now imagine what you could do if you spent some real time searching for deals.
Of course, the Explorer used the exact same front suspension as the Ranger and B2... Of course, for 1990 the Dana 28 based TTB was replaced by the Dana 35. Otherwise, the geometry was identical. While the Explorer retained the TTB setup through the first generation, in 1995 they went with the now common IFS. The Ranger continued the TTB through 1997 switching to IFS in 98.
TTB is grossly misunderstood and CAN be made to function quite well. Desert racers use the 2WD version Twin I beam for ridiculous suspension travel, and elaborate "swing set" steering to keep the wheels pointed forward throughout 20" of travel. TTB can get nearly as much travel with a lot of fabrication as well, and the swing set steering. But you still have a lot of the same issues that VW and Corvairs had with the swingarm rear suspensions before they went independent rear. Twin I beam and TTB worked much better on the fullsize trucks than the smaller Rangers and B2.
Numbers to numbers, I don't care who made more of a vehicle, there are plenty of Rangers, B2 and Explorers on the trail. Maybe not here in Utah, but in SoCal you can't swing a dead rat without hitting a desert Ranger... Equal number to Jeeps maybe? Nah... They can be made to work and there are plenty of them that don't ever see trails.
TTB is grossly misunderstood and CAN be made to function quite well. Desert racers use the 2WD version Twin I beam for ridiculous suspension travel, and elaborate "swing set" steering to keep the wheels pointed forward throughout 20" of travel. TTB can get nearly as much travel with a lot of fabrication as well, and the swing set steering. But you still have a lot of the same issues that VW and Corvairs had with the swingarm rear suspensions before they went independent rear. Twin I beam and TTB worked much better on the fullsize trucks than the smaller Rangers and B2.
Numbers to numbers, I don't care who made more of a vehicle, there are plenty of Rangers, B2 and Explorers on the trail. Maybe not here in Utah, but in SoCal you can't swing a dead rat without hitting a desert Ranger... Equal number to Jeeps maybe? Nah... They can be made to work and there are plenty of them that don't ever see trails.
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
2 mistakes here:
1st the TTB design isn't really that bad, (with some mods prerunner guys make it work well) it's just the d28 BII's got before 90' sucked and the d35 they got after... well they're not confidence inspiring considering I've seen about 7 d35 rear axles blow up.
(I love that TTB 50 KOH Canadian build on Pirate).
2nd, Your BII doesn't have a 8.8 rear (unless you swapped one in)(and no it was never even an option): it has a lousy drum brakes 7.5" with 28 spline c-clipped semi-float shafts - pretty much the d35 of the Ford world. Highly sought after as a boat anchor...
Like I said that was the first rear axle I saw break and coincidentally it took out the rear r/p and ds shaft. Even Rangers got the 7.5" until later on and even then only ever got the 28 spline 8.8" (except the FX4).
The 2.9 has 144 hp and 170ft/lb
the 4.0 has 155 hp and 220 ft/lb
that's a decent tq improvement but not an earth shattering hp gain for 1.1L displacement gain.
I've crawled around, under and over a bunch of BII's modded and stock to know this...
Like I said you can mod them to be cool but
I wouldn't even say yours hasn't had some serious mods: I'd call a motor and tranny swap a pretty serious mod.
Also getting offended about what car you drive is like getting upset because I think Nickleback is stupid... it's just one man's opinion,
and like I said before you and B2 have enough personally that what you drive shouldn't define who you are.
I think most of us on here can dislike the vehicle someone drives and still like that person... one of my friends drives a PT Cruiser and she's still cool. (I kid, I kid.)
I think if your rig was mine the game plan would be:
Stretch the rear a bit, Maybe ranger leaves SUA.
8.8 late explorer disc rear axle, with a c-clip eliminator kit.
Cut and turn inner knuckles d35 front axle swap (if yours is pre 90') TTB 44 knuckle swap.
long travel radius arms
beefy pre-runner swing steering
low low axle gears (to make up for the lack of power) 4.88's or 5.13 preferrerably.
32's
Put money in the shocks.
Rears through the floor
Cage.
Go-Fast Prerunner mild crawler build.
Come by I'll come wheel with you BII's.
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
Dang it Roger... beat me to it...
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TJDukit
I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S.
- Location
- Clearfield
Why can't we just go back to hating brands just because. All these logical reasons for hating are killing me.