Can of worms: School Vouchers

[Bucking Bronco]

The public school system failed me
I am not even close to being wealthy but if vouchers can help me afford to give my children a helping hand I am all for it while it will certainly help the rich it will help me be able to ensure my children dont end up with a education like mine

and if you look at the # it helps everyone

 

[Bucking Bronco]

And obviously our system was NOT setup to eductate your own kids (which is essentially what PRIVATE school is doing). Apples to apples...





And public schools are helping you even if your kids don't go there But for giggles, how are public leo's helping me? In a truly lawless society... common sense prevails...

And our system is failing isnt it otherwise we would not be having this conversation

some time they actually prevent crime Maybe not very often but sometimes

 

[91MJ97TJ]

my viewpoint

If the provoucher program claims to what it is then it is a good thing.
Most kids in private do not qualify for the voucher. I think they polled the incomes and it was only like 5% of existing kids in the private side would get something like 200 bucks. Which I think is fair. Most of the rich people that pay their property taxes towards public schools don't see the money for the kids they have so a few bucks if they would qualify seems fair.

Public schools have failed in many ways especially with creating districts that kind of segregate rich from poor. Utah is really hard because of the amount of children going into schools.

Here is the double standard of it all. Even if you wanted to put your kid in private after they have been in public for so long they would not get in so the Oreo idea doesn't work. This plan is designed for parents who want to put them in the private sector starting out? Because public is so far behind private they would not get in testing is too hard. Yes some could get in but not many.

Also I really hate the against voucher commericals. Most of them are not funded by Utah money but out of state money from moveon.org etc. Washington bozos.
One point that drives me nuts private schools do not require that teachers have a degree? Well duh they don't have to but most of them have a masters because it is so competitive they wouldn't get hired if they didn't have a degree. Government has to put minimums, private doesn't have to but they INTERVIEW THEM AND HIGHER ACCORDING TO QUALIFICATIONS.

Now I am just ranting. Blah I am voting yes on Ref 1 and also everyone vote for Proposition 1 as well.

 

[91MJ97TJ]

Also one more thing

Everyday utah families could get a kid into private. With vouchers it makes it more attainable because they have grants and scholarships as well. Bringing the cost down even more.

 

[Bucking Bronco]

91MJ97TJ You are educated on this subject so nice to hear

Most people are just forming their own opinions from the D$%& commercials and not facts

I actually dont have kids right now but we are going to be trying next year and that is why I am so pasonnate about this

I know that you have to start from the beginning

My sister is a single mom and she had to take her daughter out of private school because she could not afford it anymore and her doughter is now in all the advanced classed in public school but my sister still feels that she is not getting the same education and with these vouchers she might be able to afford to get her back in

 

[Spork]

Some of the things I've heard that may or may not be true.
1. If tax money goes to Private schools then a degree of regulation will be enforced. Maybe not this year but some time in the future. Do you want the Govt. running your private school?

2. If a student goes to private school then goes back to public the $ stay with the private school for 4 additional years even though the student is back in public school.

3. Teacher numbers are based on number of students. Student body size goes down so do the number teachers. Even if 1/4 the student body were to go to private schools you wouldn't see classes with that amount less per teacher.



And just a personal opinion thrown in for good measure:
You can be a screw up if you go to private school as easily as public. The private school is more likely to tell you are a screw up and expel you so maybe the solution is just to let the public schools throw the screw-ups out and teach the survivors.

 

[Brett]

I'd like to hear why some of you seem to think that that public system has failed.....

 

[91MJ97TJ]

I am totally going to want to do this

I don't even have kids right now 5-6 years we will be putting them in schools. I do not want public because it is so sad right now. My siblings and me went to the same grade school four of us. Then my nieces went. Well in k-3 they were teaching spanish my oldest niece couldn't read at all because she wasn't getting it in school (nor the home stupid sister). They moved to Park City for about a year she can read just fine now. It is stupid. I mean this is america teaching kids a foreign language is good other countries do as well but that is not what my kids will be speaking in my home. If anything tongan and samoan because that was my mission language.

I am going to try and afford private with or without vouchers I certainly hope with. Heck everyone knows education is everything even with a bachelors you don't get paid for all that money you spent in college. A masters is a minimum to change your status in america now. I think teaching your kids right from start that it is a competive world not just average go to school everyday junk we will be a lot better in america overall. They need to learn right from entry level in school that a leg up is the only way to survive in this world. Kind of a harsh reality. I didn't learn that until high school. Public schools are really lame because I needed a bigger challenge then what was offered. I only had one teacher with a PHD and one with a masters rest were just mininum teaching degree for a career. Ranting again but hey I really hope Ref 1 passes.

Also why doesn't Ford make that Bronco already? And make it right?

 

[91MJ97TJ]

Well

I'd like to hear why some of you seem to think that that public system has failed.....

Think back on all of the sum of your knowledge when did you learn more? In school? Or on your own? For me being a product of Granite school district I have learned far more when I have been out of school then I was ever in it. I would say most of History classes are like dumb downed propaganda. Biology courses lag seriously behind other states. English was probably an exception for me I was challenged my senior year because I chose a challenging teacher. Math well I have always sucked at that, I was a B+ student D- tester.

 

[Skylinerider]

The public school system did not fail me. I had classes with 30+ students, I still learned. No the teacher didn't have time to hold my hand and spoon feed me the material. I was expected to study and pay attention in class. I had parents who made sure I did my homework and helped when I had questions. I had teachers who despite being overworked found time to help students after class.

I have a hard time with the argument that the public school system failed anybody, perhaps you failed it. It's the same with anything else, you get out what you put in. There are advanced programs in high school, I had friends that when they graduated high school they also had associates degrees. The programs are there if you choose to find them and use them.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

And our system is failing isnt it otherwise we would not be having this conversation

Riiiiiight, because the government and special interest groups don't try fixing "working" things every day. Seriously, how did public school fail you? I can't think of a single person it failed... Do you think private schools will let you show up and get away with doing nothing... NO, they will ask for parental involvement... just like public schools. Parents get mid-terms and report cards... by 12th grade its too late to wonder why their student isn't going to graduate. In the case of private schools, parents have a much higher vested interest in their children, thus they are more likely to suceed, but that doesn't mean it failed them. How did it fail you??

 

[Brett]

The public school system did not fail me. I had classes with 30+ students, I still learned. No the teacher didn't have time to hold my hand and spoon feed me the material. I was expected to study and pay attention in class. I had parents who made sure I did my homework and helped when I had questions. I had teachers who despite being overworked found time to help students after class.

I have a hard time with the argument that the public school system failed anybody, perhaps you failed it. It's the same with anything else, you get out what you put in. There are advanced programs in high school, I had friends that when they graduated high school they also had associates degrees. The programs are there if you choose to find them and use them.

Exactly. If you, as the student, didn't put for the effort to learn anything in class or to study and do your homework, well, then you're failing yourself. Teachers, faculty, the entire system, none of it can force anyone to learn something that they don't want to. Those of you who say it failed you, I wonder how you can say that. Were the classes too hard for you? Did you not do your homework and didn't pass the course? Decided that screwing off in class was more important than listening and studying the information presented? That's not the public system failing then.

The big thing for me is still that parents don't care to involve themselves in their child's developement and education. They just assume that someone else will keep track of their kid and sit and stare at the TV instead. American's, fat lazy and willing to blame anyone for their problems, other than themselves.

 

[Skylinerider]

I suppose, it depends on what you believe education is for, if you believe that education is just to provide dogma, then it's probabbly successful, if it's to help a person find their focus in life (I'm including PSE here too) then it has faild many.

Public school is not there to find your focus in life. It is to give a general education. Then when you (hopefully) go to college you find a focus and tailor your education to fit that focus.

I was never taught "dogma" in public school. It honestly sounds like you have an axe to grind that involves a little more than public school.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I mean this is america teaching kids a foreign language is good other countries do as well but that is not what my kids will be speaking in my home. If anything tongan and samoan because that was my mission language...

A bilingual person (speaking spanish) is far more likely to excel in their professional life compared to one which does not. If they were having a problem reading/writing the PARENTS should have owned up and tought THEIR kids. Seriously teachers are their facilitate, not perform miracles. I would still hate my parents if they let me fail...

...Public schools are really lame because I needed a bigger challenge then what was offered.

Were you in honor classes, ALPS, magnet programs, AP classes in high school? To say public schools don't offer a challenge is nothing short of a copout for failures... sorry, I call it as I see it.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Think back on all of the sum of your knowledge when did you learn more? In school? Or on your own? For me being a product of Granite school district I have learned far more when I have been out of school then I was ever in it. I would say most of History classes are like dumb downed propaganda. Biology courses lag seriously behind other states. English was probably an exception for me I was challenged my senior year because I chose a challenging teacher. Math well I have always sucked at that, I was a B+ student D- tester.

I love it... the old "I'm a bad tester" routine... no offense dude, don't pass your excuses on to your children. In your case I fully support sending YOUR children to private schools... they need nuturing and innovation that is obviously NOT going to come from home. I've never beein inside Granite High nor your middle school.. but I'm assuming from your comments that they didn't have a library... afterall... what good would that do, kids would have to show some effort. Society doesn't need to force feed its children, it needs to facilitate the bright ones. Not every child is going to be able to handle it... and thankfully we have a giant service/manual labor sector of our economy that is willing and thankful for them. It takes all kinds to keep this world turning.


...pot stirring...

The Public Schools Failed Me Posterboy - "George Bush hates dumb children"

 

[Brett]

Think back on all of the sum of your knowledge when did you learn more? In school? Or on your own? For me being a product of Granite school district I have learned far more when I have been out of school then I was ever in it. I would say most of History classes are like dumb downed propaganda. Biology courses lag seriously behind other states. English was probably an exception for me I was challenged my senior year because I chose a challenging teacher. Math well I have always sucked at that, I was a B+ student D- tester.

Man, where's Cody to respond to you about Granite school district? I think that he was more involved with everything school than anyone I know!

As for my knownledge, I learned a lot in school because I applied myself to what I was being taught. I took the harder classes, asked for help when I needed it from the teachers and from my parents. I learned what I was there for, a general education in the math, science, history, the works.

You make what you want of school. Some people were there just because they had to be. Others were there to learn and these are the one's that actually made something of it. If school failed for you, maybe try applying yourself harder on the next round.

 

[91MJ97TJ]

Ok let me go through all of my history as a Student in Granite.

Well FYI yes I took challenging classes in all years of my high school career. Junior High really didn't offer anything. Won't get into what school I went to but if you knew what school you would know learning doesn't go in within those hallowed walls.

Sophmore year. Honors courses, physics, english. Honors courses was the same material as the regular classes I found out later. They had more essays in english and a lot more semantic talk of moving on to English AP which I took my senior year. Physics was my only PHD teacher a genius in my view point. Reading his doctorate was a privilege and inspiration. I always took remedial math courses I only took two in high school because I used some physics classes taught by this teacher for math credit. I enjoyed the more applied mathmatics I always tested well. But learning five different ways to do a math problem really never interested me EVER. So yes I take the blame my father is an engineer and if any of you knew psychologically speaking differences in human minds. Mine never really grappeled calculus. I was just a terrible tester I would ace the homework because it took my five hours to do. But when it came to test an hour and half just I could never finish. No excuses just merely saying what happened. My American History AP test well my teacher was actually the cheer instructor as well. Much to my shock she felt like following her own lesson plan. By skipping the Revolution and Civil war to come back to it later. Well on the AP exam I had two essays involving the civil war. Maybe I didn't do as well as I would hope because I didn't agree with her lesson plan? Who knows I don't care I studied really hard and barely passed with three. Although in the same year I passed the Biology AP test with a 4 I didn't study nearly as much as I should have. Blah blah blah. My sophmore year I had Euro ap and Art history passed 4 and a 5 respecfully. So don't tell me about not challenging myself. Both my parents worked as well so as far as support all I had was the weekend math studies with my dad. But I divulge just because you may have all had a wonderful experience in public schools doesn't mean I disagree with you I am happy you did but for my sake I worked my butt off and I wished I had just taken easy classes graduated early and went to SLCC for my senior year like a couple of my friends did. They are now in a masters programs at the U. So getting out of public schools will always be a priority for my kids.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Well FYI yes I took challenging classes in all years of my high school career...

I still don't see how school failed you??? Looks like you accomplished alot... School isn't about learing about the Civil War, nor is it about completing a math problem several different ways... it is about teaching you to learn, broadening you horizons, getting you interested in making YOURSELF a better person. There are likely thousands of books about the Civil and Revolutionary Wars, go read one and complete your life mission. A diploma won't make you a CEO in this world, learning to act, react, overcome, manipulate and control situations will. I didn't challenge myself as much as I could have in high school, nor did I in college, but I don't hold them accountable for that.

Your absolutely right.. some minds do grasp different concepts better than others. But are you advocating the whole class slow down to your schedule?? Do you want everyone to get an "A" in some liberal "they all did their best" scheme. Life is about failing, you learn accordingly. If you don't... you failed yourself.

 

[Milner]

Damnit I want to give my opinion....but I best not, job security/ethics and all.
But I will say this, if at all affordable I will send my daughter to a private school for atleast k-6.

 

[91MJ97TJ]

But I divulge just because you may have all had a wonderful experience in public schools doesn't mean I disagree with you I am happy you did but for my sake I worked my butt off and I wished I had just taken easy classes graduated early and went to SLCC for my senior year like a couple of my friends did. They are now in a masters programs at the U. So getting out of public schools will always be a priority for my kids.

I will just delete all of the fluff. I learned way more when I left school was a point I said earlier. That by reading now I have learned a lot in fact I have kept some textbooks and most of the stuff I learned is just public school approved garbage. I feel ripped off because many of the things taught to me was almost ten years old garbage. When I went to college man way different a lot of stuff contradicts that which I was told in a psychology class, biology class. My point is that many teachers are far behind that is why private is ahead of them.