Concealed-gun debate heats up after mall shooting

[SAMI]

To carry or not to carry? Which philosophy would had made a difference?

Link---> HERE SL Tribune

discuss... what are your thoughts and opinions?

-Jason

 

[offroaddave]

Great subject.


My opinion is, if everyone there had legal right to have a concelled weapon, then there would be less victims.

 

[I Lean]

There certainly would have been less people shot, therefore less people dead.

 

[SAMI]

Great subject.
My opinion is, if everyone there had legal right to have a concelled weapon, then there would be less victims.

my thoughts exactly... i know carrying a firearm might not be for everyone, and there's alot of people that oppose it.. but i'd be very interested to find numbers of direct victims, and their friends and families who have now changed their opinions about concealed weapons.. for better or for worse.

i might be bias(cause i'm pro CCW), but i'd think most would wonder for the rest of their life(if they think about this at all), that if there were even 2 or 3 more people with a concealed weapon that night at Trolley Square their loved ones might still be with them... just a thought..

-Jason

 

[offroaddave]

There's a billboard on 31st street just east of 1900west in ogden that states


"federal gun crimes have zero chance for parole, ZERO".


Prosecuting illegal use of firearms is the key to keeping law abiding citizens having the right to protect themselves, and others.
I personally would feel alot safer knowing more law abiding people were able to protect themselves and those around them.

 

[SAMI]

my dad brought up an interesting point... if you are carrying, do you attempt to nuetralize the gunman, or do you hunker down and protect those that you're with?

 

[Spork]

my dad brought up an interesting point... if you are carrying, do you attempt to nuetralize the gunman, or do you hunker down and protect those that you're with?

"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

 

[Milner]

my dad brought up an interesting point... if you are carrying, do you attempt to nuetralize the gunman, or do you hunker down and protect those that you're with?

A person with a CCW is allowed to use a weapon Defensively only!!
Basically as it has been explained to me by several in the know is, you or some other person must be in fear of serious injury or death before you show and use your weapon. Only draw your weapon with the intent and need to use it. If you and those near you are safe, you can not enter a situation in which you must engage. In other words, If you are standing there and he shoots at you or those near you, you can shoot him....If you are on the other side of the mall and you are safe as are those near you, you do not have the legal right to "hunt" and engage the gunman. That is the job of law enforcement....Basically, legally shakey ground, but ethically, you have to make your own call....
Not being there, I can't say what I would do, but given the opportunity I would not hesitate to shoot a person in that situation if it meant saving other lives. Legal issues can be dealt with later....inocent lives are lives worth saving.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, I have no legal education, so take it for what it is worth....I am just a guy the read and listens a lot

 

[Drew_XJ]

A person with a CCW is allowed to use a weapon Defensively only!!
Basically as it has been explained to me by several in the know is, you or some other person must be in fear of serious injury or death before you show and use your weapon. Only draw your weapon with the intent and need to use it. If you and those near you are safe, you can not enter a situation in which you must engage. In other words, If you are standing there and he shoots at you or those near you, you can shoot him....If you are on the other side of the mall and you are safe as are those near you, you do not have the legal right to "hunt" and engage the gunman. That is the job of law enforcement....Basically, legally shakey ground, but ethically, you have to make your own call....
Not being there, I can't say what I would do, but given the opportunity I would not hesitate to shoot a person in that situation if it meant saving other lives. Legal issues can be dealt with later....inocent lives are lives worth saving.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, I have no legal education, so take it for what it is worth....I am just a guy the read and listens a lot

if yourself or anyone not able to protect themselves lives are put in danger you have the right to protect them with deadly force. so if he was shooting people with his back to you with intent to kill them you can engage.

 

[sbr]

I am all for legally carrying a gun I took the class last year but didn't get my paper work in within the time limit so I will be taking the class again . I also feel that if more people carried legally crime would go way down because the criminals would think twice before walking in somewere knowing that other people had guns also. But besides being able to carry it you need to be efficient(sp) in the use of it .

 

[Stephen]

Haveing been there I can say that I would have felt a hell of alot safer had I had my 9mm with me. But I would have stayed were I was, thats for sure. It just would have been a nice feeling to know that if someone had tried to break down the stockroom door I could have at least put up a spirited defense.
That being said, even had I had my gun on me when the whole thing began, I doubt that I would have had the time to react had I been surprised with a gun walking around the corner brandeshing a shotgun. I never want to know what would happen in that situation, but I doubt that I'm that fast. And I most definately would not have tried to intervene in that situation!

 

[chadr]

Tonight on the news, the off duty police officer that was in everyday street clothes was being hailed as a hero because of his training. The only problem was that inital reports were that there were two gunmen on the scene, one with a handgun and one with a shotgun. Good thing the officers wife called 911 and told the police officers that her husband was on the scene and could describe him and what he was wearing. You don't want to become a statistic either.

On the other hand, doesn't having a concealed permit mean that you have had training enough to handle a weapon in the event that you would be able to protect you or your associates that are with you in the event of a situation like this? I know when I took my training, the officer/instructor told us that police officers usually think of those that have permits as citizens that would like to defend their rights to bear arms. He even joked that some police would want to see their weapon just to see a cool new weapon.

Personally, if it were a CCW permit carrying citizen that was the one that helped the police on the scene of the shooting, I think it would have been a great help to show that all CCW carrying citizens are actually helping the community with protecting others.

This is also just my 0.02 and am not a lawyer. Opinions are great aren't they?

 

[V-DAWG]

On the other hand, doesn't having a concealed permit mean that you have had training enough to handle a weapon............

That would be ideal, but I am afraid the answer is no.

I am a police officer, and also a CCW holder. The CCW class I attended was approximately 2 hours, over 1 of which was the instructor taking the required photographs and fingerprints for all the attendees. I was the only law enforcement officer in the class, and at that time I was working as a correctional officer and was not weapons certified, so basically I was just like everyone else in the class.

The instructor covered some basics of the opertation of a semi-auto vs. a revolver, but the class did not even make you shoot a "qualification" to show you could hit a paper target.

I believe those who want to carry a gun should be able to, but I do not see the benefit of a person who does not feel confident carrying a gun having one.

The comment was made about only using CCW for defensive purposes. That is true meaning you cannot aggressively act out because you have a gun, and then use it to defend yourself, BUT, you definitely have the right to hunt down an active shooter or anyone who is causing serious bodily injury/ death to another.

 

[Meat_]

When I took my class they made us shoot. In fact he made us shoot both a semi auto and a revolver

 

[SAMI]

...I am a police officer, and also a CCW holder.....

I believe those who want to carry a gun should be able to, but I do not see the benefit of a person who does not feel confident carrying a gun having one.

The comment was made about only using CCW for defensive purposes. That is true meaning you cannot aggressively act out because you have a gun, and then use it to defend yourself, BUT, you definitely have the right to hunt down an active shooter or anyone who is causing serious bodily injury/ death to another.

this is more or less exactly what i was looking for. whether or not i am ok as a CCW holder to attempt to take action against a threat to those around me and myself... or, if i'm expected to hole up under a desk somewhere with the possible power in my hands to stop innocent lives from being taken...

i think it comes down to what one feels confident in doing.. personally, i'm not sure what i would've done in Steve's situation.. if i have a firearm, would i go after the guy? or would i play it safe and take him out only if he was coming after me directly? honestly, i don't know... i'd like to think that i could help others where it's needed.. one problem i can see is the mass confusion and hysteria in the other witnesses/victims on the phone with the 911 operator possibly describing you as another shooter... then the cops come in shooting who they've been told is a threat.. risky... what'ya do?

i'd like to add that i won't carry my firearm until i feel confident in doing so... i plan on alot of range time and getting familiar with the weapon before i will carry it a whole lot... the comment on one's confidence is a good one.

-Jason

 

[Tacoma]

I was taught in my class that you are allowed to use deadly force to stop violent crimes. THe example used was something like, guy shooting up the street, takes off: do you shoot? I said yes, because why let someone keep shooting people when you can stop him right there. My instructor was Terry Thompson of the UHP, and he agreed with that.

In a situation like Trolley Square, I'd be VERY concerned about responding police officers. I'd probably be glued to my cell phone giving detailed description of myself over and over. Or, maybe I'd be hauling ass out the back door. It's hard to say. I have the option though, since I believe in concealed carry.

Spend a lot of time at the range. Call F.A.R.M. and take some scenario-based training if they're still doing that. Paper doesn't shoot back, and stress changes everything. You fight like you train, etc etc.


Senseless crap like this should inpsire everyone that can to carry a gun and be ready to use it. My $0.02.

 

[wally]

A lot of things said on here made me think of one of the last episodes of Sinfeld. It was when they saw someone being robbed and they did not do anything to try and stop it. Not sure if the guy had a gun or not. I know I would like to get my license to carry but the wife does not want me to. I would also like to say do not pull it out unless you are willing to use it. I know I would not have a problem if rounds are coming down to go and try and help. Even if it is trying to get the ones hit out of the area beacuse I have done that before while home on leave from the military.

 

[spencurai]

It is a tricky situation if you decide to pursue a violent criminal especially if you do not have the training police officers do to clear the area before you start sending rounds downrange. If you miss the criminal and strike another person, you are SCREWED!! You own whatever comes out of your barrel. The fact that has already been touched upon is that CCW training is insufficient for the most part. I would be all for a week long or month long class where you are taught tactical defense and intelligent retreat from a hostile area. You can claim all day long that you would be superman and go in guns a blazing but most of us will never see that situation in our lives. We need to be trained on how to get out of a sticky situation, not how to "hunt" a violent criminal.

 

[hambone]

i am a concealed permit holder and i know exactly what i would do, i would have gone in to the first store i saw drawn my gun and waited for the police or the gunman which ever came first. maybe im an a$$ hole but in my eyes mine and my famlies lives are more important to me than any body elses.

 

[SAMI]

..... In a situation like Trolley Square, I'd be VERY concerned about responding police officers. I'd probably be glued to my cell phone giving detailed description of myself over and over. Or, maybe I'd be hauling ass out the back door. It's hard to say. I have the option though, since I believe in concealed carry.

police crossfire would ultimately cause me to crap my pants...

.... You can claim all day long that you would be superman and go in guns a blazing but most of us will never see that situation in our lives. We need to be trained on how to get out of a sticky situation, not how to "hunt" a violent criminal.

agreed

i am a concealed permit holder and i know exactly what i would do, i would have gone in to the first store i saw drawn my gun and waited for the police or the gunman which ever came first. maybe im an a$$ hole but in my eyes mine and my famlies lives are more important to me than any body elses.

i don't think anyone can argue with that... again, i think it all falls back on one's confidence level in their capabilities and training.

-Jason