Cops taser a student at UCLA

[offroaddave]

Wow,,

I meant a good debate in general!

:guilty: As i suspected.

 

[lenny]

:guilty: As i suspected.

Any problem with that?

 

[XT Utah]

I'm a master debater.

 

[notajeep]

Off topic...

 

[teknodestrukto]

A google search seems to show otherwise.

Seems and does are two different things. Any serious research into Tazer deployments related to death or injury will show no causation.

 

[waynehartwig]

I agree... The punk deserved everything he got, and more. Had he just complied in the first place, nothing would have happened to him. LEO's can use any force necessary. I think it would have been more entertaining if they would have wacked him in the back of the neck with their stick! (now that would be excessive force, but still entertaining).

IMO there are some bad LEO's out there, but these types of videos only hurt the good ones, the ones that would jump in and save your lousy life and risk their own.

 

[Stephen]

I liked laughing at the idiots that kept on asking for badge numbers. Morons, just file a complaint with the department if your are that concerned, badge numbers aren't going to matter, the department will know who was there!

 

[bobdog]

Seems and does are two different things. Any serious research into Tazer deployments related to death or injury will show no causation.

I have no interest in doing serious research on the subject but my quick search turned up plenty of cases where MEs who's job it is to determine cause of death found Tazers to be the cause.

 

[Tacoma]

Like I said, let's see the links. If there's so many of them, let's see the proof.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Like I said, let's see the links. If there's so many of them, let's see the proof.

Heres a pretty decent overview... most are very cautious to say they couldn't eliminate the taser as a cause, but they don't call it the cause, more like a "contributing factor".

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special43/articles/1224taserlist24-ON.html

167 out of the hundereds of thousands of times it has been deployed sucessfully. One will never know how many lifes have been saved due to its use...

 

[timpanogos]

167 out of the hundereds of thousands of times it has been deployed sucessfully. One will never know how many lifes have been saved due to its use...

exactly! heck when I'm feeling real depressed, hell I give myself a shot! It's much cheaper than a trip to the farm for some therapy

edit:

However, the nasty part is; my wife has figured this out. Every time I get that “need jeep parts/fix” look in my eye … she zaps me!

The kids a sissy a$$

 

[Tacoma]

A quick scan of those cases (24 is on damnit!) shows lots of cocaine/meth use and THEN a Taser.

I'll go ahead and stand by my statement that Tasers don't cause deaths.

EDIT: slightly closer reading shows a possible editorial slant in some of those reports. ?

 

[waynehartwig]

I guess I should have watched the video before... But now after watching it, I think they were completely in the wrong and should face disciplinary action. There was no threat to anyone in the library. He had no weapon (that you could see, or hear anyone talk about). Just some kid not complying. There was enough of LEO's there that they could have easily cuffed him and drug him out like any other protestor. Heck, even cuffed his ankles if needed. They could have even used pressure points or etc to get him to comply. Tazers are considered deadly force and there was no need for deadly force in this case.

I usually side on LEO's, becuase they have the worst job out there (and my wife is one), but this is hard to do here...

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Tazers are considered deadly force and there was no need for deadly force in this case...

Interesting... most those I have watched the video with side with the kid UNTIL they watch the video, then they think he had every opportunity to comply.

Since when is the Tazer considered deadly force??? it is considered a NON-lethal form of compliance... no ifs ands or buts.

Why should an officer be forced (by your standards) to place themselves in harms risk?? They use the tazer to safly bring a subject into compliance.

We don't know the whole situation.. but if the kid had been combative for 10+ minutes prior to the video, why should they risk getting hit in the face, stabbed, are pricked by a needle from the wacko... you just never know.

I think the video does this kid more harm than good..

 

[Tacoma]

Wayne, I think WA is softening your brain. Tasers are non-lethal weapns. That's why they use them instead of shooting them.

 

[waynehartwig]

Interesting... most those I have watched the video with side with the kid UNTIL they watch the video, then they think he had every opportunity to comply.

Since when is the Tazer considered deadly force??? it is considered a NON-lethal form of compliance... no ifs ands or buts.

Why should an officer be forced (by your standards) to place themselves in harms risk?? They use the tazer to safly bring a subject into compliance.

We don't know the whole situation.. but if the kid had been combative for 10+ minutes prior to the video, why should they risk getting hit in the face, stabbed, are pricked by a needle from the wacko... you just never know.

I think the video does this kid more harm than good..

He does have every chance to comply, but if you think about it, peace protestors sometimes don't comply and they just chain 'em up and haul 'em off. Just becuase you aren't being compliant, doesn't give LEO's the right to use deadly force. Like I said before, there was enough of them, they could have easily drug him out on his a$$ and then even arrested him for non compliance.

It's not non lethal. There have been people die from it. It's a lot of volts and it can stop your heart. Thus making it a lethal form.

We don't know the situation leading up to this, as the video obviously begins after they have already arrived and the kid starts getting loud. But that also tells me that he wasn't loud prior to, otherwise he would have had more of an audience. Unless people were just ignoring him? But it's a library, why would people ignore some being that loud there?

But from the video, I don't see any evidence showing where the LEO's or anyone else in the library are in any danger of their lives. Especially to be tazered a half dozen times.

 

[waynehartwig]

Wayne, I think WA is softening your brain. Tasers are non-lethal weapns. That's why they use them instead of shooting them.

No, they use them becuase the pussy liberals make them - I learned that in one of your churches up here. It's also a good middle ground between shooting the punk and trying to over through him with brute force.

Like I said, I typically side the LEO's becuase of thier job and my wife being one. My wife has been working an armed robbery case and might have been put in a position if a minor pulled a weapon (not on her, someone else), would she be able to 'stop the threat' (kill the kid). (I can't say much about it, so sorry for the vague descript) And the answer is yes, she would have to. Would I have any problem with it, no. Would I be saying 'excessive force' no. Becuase the kid would have demonstrated that he was serious and pulled a weapon with intent to shoot someone. Basically putting someones life in danger. This kid in the video did none of those things. His fault was crying like a little girl, yelling, etc. All of which shows he has no balls, but doesn't show he is a threat on anyones life or well being.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

It's not non lethal. There have been people die from it. It's a lot of volts and it can stop your heart. Thus making it a lethal form.

Hmmm... I don't know what to think of that logic... I guess that makes Asprin a lethal pill, because folks have died DIRECTLY from using it. Oh yeah, riot control gas has killed too, I guess they should call that lethal?

Hundereds of independent hospitals, doctors, etc that have given the Taser the "greenlight" as a non-lethal form of compliance. I guess you know something about the .00001% of RELATED deaths that I don't Think about it... there are over 1700 police agencies using these... and only 167 RELATED deaths (btw the ACLU has the number of related deaths at 148). Hopped up meth heads die in police custody all the time... so there is a good chance some of those 167 arn't even related!

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Oh yeah... and the kids excuse for being non-compliant... he is bi-polar

Even funnier... I guess the Iranian student (that was shocked) beleived he was been singled out to show his ID. He claims another reason (besides the bi-polar disorder that his lawyers presented) is that he thought RACIAL PROFILING was taking place.... thus refusing to comply...

The arresting officer... Terrence Duren, an African-American ex-Marine and 18-year veteran of the UCLA Police Department.

Just when you thought it was over... "Tabatabainejad filed a federal lawsuit alleging the campus officers used excessive force, and that they violated the Americans With Disabilities Act"... ADA, paaaalease. Now officers are liable for suit because they didn't know the guy was a confirmed nut!

 

[Stephen]

The whole point of the Tazer was to give police officers a non-lethal instrument to use against combative/non-compliant/potentially dangerous people. When has a Tazer ever been called lethal force? LEO's are trained to use Tazers and other non-lethal weapons to subdue people in an attempt to avoid using lethal (IE Shooting the ****er) force.
Also, in order to have a Tazer, you have to get shot by one. At least thats how it is with the SL Sheriffs department. My buddy (Deputy Scott Curtis, I'm not making this up) said that its a really weird sensation, but it wears off quick and then just feels like pins and needles. The video of him getting Tazed was hilarious though!
Would it have been better if they had OC sprayed or maced him? That would have put other people in the library at risk of exposure. People have died from mace and OC, does that make it lethal force? Additionally, and this is a point that has been visited before, how was the kid acting before they tazed him? The video doesn't show and all the news reports I've found simply say that he wasn't complying with the police's requests. Did he throw a punch? Did he try to run? If thats the case, then theres your probable cause.