Coronavirus

[xjtony]

@Pike2350 you are totally correct that my knowledge is second hand, but its from people I trust who claim to be seeing this. I also should make sure to clarify that I dont know anyone locally in the state working in healthcare. My sources are from several states (several life long freinds) . This has also been reported multiple times by diffrent news agencies from healthcare workers trying to do the right thing. Keep in mind that a news report these days is not always worth the electrons needed to pull it up. I would truly hope that any instances would not be wide spread. My only goal is to keep the discussion open and share information that I believe is credible

 

[xjtony]

Because the cure for the flu is RONA

Or possibly that because people are taking much more protective measures that fewer people are contracting the flu? Not a dispute, just an alternate way of looking at it.

 

[anderson750]

Or possibly that because people are taking much more protective measures that fewer people are contracting the flu? Not a dispute, just an alternate way of looking at it.

My comment was half sarcasm. I do not doubt that measures taken can reduce the occurrence of flu, but I do not think it is realistic to believe that it is basically 0 per 100,000 like what is being reported.

 

[Noahfecks]

t the only people I can trust to help protect my family, are in fact my family members themselves. I'm not going to rely on anyone else to do the right thing, I've got to do it myself.
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]

The most sensible thing I have heard anyone say about the rona

If you feel you are at risk, it's your responsibility to take appropriate precautions, you don't get to tell me that I have to give up my life.

 

[Houndoc]

I also find this very curious. I suspected a decline because of the general decrease in people doing things in groups and going out, and a general increase in personal sanitation/hand washing. Still seems odd.

However, as a sample size of 1, this is the first year neither of my kids have brought home any sort of sniffles or cough from school or day care. Knock on wood.

Simple reality is that to try and contain COVID we are doing the exact things that help stop the spread of flu and other viruses. Just the simple fact that no employee comes to work at my clinic with so much as a cough (I pay them to stay home) instead of the typical 'come to work unless your dead' mentality helps limit disease spread.

We are being much more careful (dare I say smarter) about limiting infectious disease spread now.

@Pike2350 you are totally correct that my knowledge is second hand, but its from people I trust who claim to be seeing this. I also should make sure to clarify that I dont know anyone locally in the state working in healthcare. My sources are from several states (several life long freinds) . This has also been reported multiple times by diffrent news agencies from healthcare workers trying to do the right thing. Keep in mind that a news report these days is not always worth the electrons needed to pull it up. I would truly hope that any instances would not be wide spread. My only goal is to keep the discussion open and share information that I believe is credible

I question the claims of false records because 1) no one seems to produce proof. As others have said, its a lot of second and third hand accusations. Seems like the only way your trusted source would know it is happening is first hand knowledge- meaning they are participating, or at least witnessing it (which are kind of the same thing if they don't report it.) And even if fraud was happening at the billing side, that is not how the state collects their death information. 2) Falsifying medical records is a near-guaranteed way to loose your medical license. Doctors are very unlikely to do so so the hospital can make a few extra bucks.

 

[xjtony]

@Houndoc. I wasnt particularly refering to false records. The discussion was comorbidites, and COVID being removed under review as a couse of death. As stated my knowledge of this is second hand, and from states around the country by people I know well (specifically why I'm not giving names or location) that believe this is happening, or at least being attempted.

I'm sure your knowledge on the process is correct and based on you're experience. I have worked for the federal government for 15 years.
My father for 30 before that. My experience has been that if you expect the government to always have your best interest at heart, you are destined to spend some time disappointed.

As always I welcome the opertunity to learn from other peoples experience and debate the issue. Our differing backgrounds and views are part of what makes our country strong. As a whole we have strayed away from civil discussion to our issues.

 

[Herzog]

Chloroquine for treatment of COVID-19 results in subtherapeutic exposure and prolonged QTc intervals

www.sciencedirect.com

You know what else Chloroquinne works well for? The Flu.
****'n nay sayers.

 

[Houndoc]

@Houndoc. I wasnt particularly refering to false records. The discussion was comorbidites, and COVID being removed under review as a couse of death. As stated my knowledge of this is second hand, and from states around the country by people I know well (specifically why I'm not giving names or location) that believe this is happening, or at least being attempted.

I'm sure your knowledge on the process is correct and based on you're experience. I have worked for the federal government for 15 years.
My father for 30 before that. My experience has been that if you expect the government to always have your best interest at heart, you are destined to spend some time disappointed.

As always I welcome the opertunity to learn from other peoples experience and debate the issue. Our differing backgrounds and views are part of what makes our country strong. As a whole we have strayed away from civil discussion to our issues.

I don't doubt fraud happens. Big business plus government asks for it.
But on the debate of causes of death- COVID and comorbidities- reported statistics can only be wrong with false medical records.
That does tie exactly to the core discussion.
If there are issues with the CARES act and abuse that is an entirely different aspect.

 

[xjtony]

Before the state declares a death as COVID related all medical records are carefully reviewed and a positive test does not always result in the death being listed as a COVID death. After further review they will even remove someone from the list of COVID deaths if additional information (autopsy, pathology results etc.) changes the diagnoses.

Your words. Again not talking about falsifying records. Talking about about deaths where COVID is diagnosed, but may not be the actual cause of death. I'm not trying to change your mind, that clearly isnt happening and thats fine. You keep arguing that doctors and nurses would have to falsify records for it to happen but your statements dont really help that argument because its not what I've been saying.

 

[Coco]

I rarely listen to Glen Beck, but happened to catch him the other day on the radio... Pretty funny to hear him and his co host talking with 10+ masks on, and getting just making fun of the whole thought of double and more masking.

 

[glockman]

I don't doubt fraud happens. Big business plus government asks for it.
But on the debate of causes of death- COVID and comorbidities- reported statistics can only be wrong with false medical records.
That does tie exactly to the core discussion.
If there are issues with the CARES act and abuse that is an entirely different aspect.

Fraud is not the only model for this to occur. If a doctor finds two issues with a dead person, it is a judgment call on what the actual cause of death is. If a doctor is seeing lots of corona related issues in a hot spot, say like NY in the early days, it is totally reasonable for them to make a judgement call on which issue was the primary cause and the fact that their hospital gets at the very least, more priority for supplies, they would be well within their authority to lean one way. I've seen this with fantastic doctors at Primary Children's with my son. If they have wiggle room and they can use that to help the people they treat, ie more supplies or federal support, they totally do and it's not even, or doesn't have to be nefarious intent.

 

[xjtony]

Exactly what I was trying to discribe ( but probably worded better than I did). It doesnt make sense for a review board to remove COVID from the cause of death if its was present because that stat could be used to gain more federal funding for COVID relief. Not fraud, but could account for some of the numbers being artificially high or some of the inconsistency people are seeing.

 

[Houndoc]

The key question when discussing comorbidities is "would the person have died at that time had they not been infected with COVID?" Granted that is not always easily determined, but I still find it doubtful that the numbers being reported as a COVID death that are not are high enough play a significant part in the deaths reported.
And as I stated before, the reviews in Utah at least are not done by the hospital but by the state so the incentive to misclassify for financial reasons is minimal at best.
So, my real point is to trust the numbers.

 

[TRD270]

How you present the numbers is interesting. Put it in decimals and it looks very small. Point out that we are nearing the point where 1 in 800 people in the US have died of COVID and it seems rather significant.

While 1 in 800 is not an insignificant number. Let's also think about how many people have been more adversely effected financially/mentally from this its a hell of a lot more than 1 in 800.

So I probably get to people watch a lot more than most people on here and I can't help but think of the long term psychological affects on children. I constantly hear parents yelling at their children in the airport don't touch the seat, don't sit down in the terminal, wipe this down wipe that down. Don't get so close, don't this don't that. Can't help but think we are going to have a couple generations of hypochondriac germaphobes with social anxiety.

I'm here to tell you, touching things in an airport or airplane or anywhere for that matter isn't going to kill you. I fly back and forth from DFW to SLC 4-8 times a month. I haven't wiped down a seat or hard surface since May? My habits are no different than they were precovid. I've pretty much had my head most surfaces in the airplane trying to sleep and haven't died yet. I don't wear gloves on the plane I don't wear silly faceshields over my safety goggles over my EPA bio suit, I don't hand sanitize after my hands may have come into contact with the arm rest. All this not even counting the 80-100 hours a month I spend in the plane i'm flying.

Also lets not forget about the environmental disaster waiting for us from all this PPE, takeout containers, single use everything floating around.

1 in 800 makes a great headline, and i'm not heartless it sucks to lose a loved one and yes I do know people that have died from covid. But big picture, the human casualty element of this "pandemic" is a fraction of everything else coming from it.

 

[Houndoc]

While 1 in 800 is not an insignificant number. Let's also think about how many people have been more adversely effected financially/mentally from this its a hell of a lot more than 1 in 800.

So I probably get to people watch a lot more than most people on here and I can't help but think of the long term psychological affects on children. I constantly hear parents yelling at their children in the airport don't touch the seat, don't sit down in the terminal, wipe this down wipe that down. Don't get so close, don't this don't that. Can't help but think we are going to have a couple generations of hypochondriac germaphobes with social anxiety.

I'm here to tell you, touching things in an airport or airplane or anywhere for that matter isn't going to kill you. I fly back and forth from DFW to SLC 4-8 times a month. I haven't wiped down a seat or hard surface since May? My habits are no different than they were precovid. I've pretty much had my head most surfaces in the airplane trying to sleep and haven't died yet. I don't wear gloves on the plane I don't wear silly faceshields over my safety goggles over my EPA bio suit, I don't hand sanitize after my hands may have come into contact with the arm rest. All this not even counting the 80-100 hours a month I spend in the plane i'm flying.

Also lets not forget about the environmental disaster waiting for us from all this PPE, takeout containers, single use everything floating around.

1 in 800 makes a great headline, and i'm not heartless it sucks to lose a loved one and yes I do know people that have died from covid. But big picture, the human casualty element of this "pandemic" is a fraction of everything else coming from it.

There is certainly some truth to parts of your comments. No question that economic, mental health and social impacts are real, but so are those same things on the families of those who die.

Still seems to me that simple steps of social distancing, facemasks and limiting exposure via some changes in what/how business function (we have had to make very significant changes in how we see our patients) are relatively simple and any role they plan in bringing the pandemic under control helps address the economic, social and mental health impacts in the long term as well.

 

[Herzog]

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread - Virology Journal

Background Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) is caused by a newly discovered coronavirus (SARS-CoV). No effective prophylactic or post-exposure therapy is currently available. Results We report, however, that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells...

virologyj.biomedcentral.com

Remember, this info was suppressed because of Trump derangement syndrome.

 

[Houndoc]

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread - Virology Journal

Background Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) is caused by a newly discovered coronavirus (SARS-CoV). No effective prophylactic or post-exposure therapy is currently available. Results We report, however, that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells...

virologyj.biomedcentral.com

Remember, this info was suppressed because of Trump derangement syndrome.

Doctors don't get their updates via social media, so I don't think suppressing info plays a significant role in care.
Reality is many drugs are being studied for different uses and new information is being gathered as those studies progress.
Not everything is a conspiracy.

 

[mbryson]

Whatever your perspective on conspiracy, masks, etc, it will be interesting to see if/what cases change from the Super Bowl parties from Sunday.




For reference, the reported Sat Feb 6, 2021 cases are at 910

 

[Herzog]

Doctors don't get their updates via social media, so I don't think suppressing info plays a significant role in care.
Reality is many drugs are being studied for different uses and new information is being gathered as those studies progress.
Not everything is a conspiracy.

That was published in 2005... I guess doctors don't get their updates from anywhere except from big pharma then.
Not everything is a conspiracy, but it's a fact that the wealthy "elite" get together and conspire against the common man.

 

[Herzog]