Debate over RS and Con----Why are we as 4WD enthusiasts our own worst enemy at times?

[my4thjeep]

In june i was down in fishlake national forest and they have great signs plus at the beginning of the trails they have a large map. it was pretty cool. It gave plenty of information to people new to the area.

One rule I think is often overlooked by people is the vehicle going up hill has the right of way.

 

[RockMonkey]

I agree, it's not the rigs that are ruining the trails, it's the drivers. The problem is ANY driver taking ANY rig around an area that is not to his liking (be it too hard, or too easy). With that said, the well built rigs have an advantage. They can do the easy trails, and the stockers CAN NOT do the hard trails, and SHOULD NOT try. Any sign in front of Constrictor should make this point clear. Also, I think in some instances trail building (moving rocks to suit our needs) is appropriate. I think it may be appropriate to MOVE some big rocks in front of the trails designed to be very challenging to filter out the guys that can't read the sign. In the case of Rattlesnake, this is not appropriate, because that trail is easy enough to be done by most near-stockers. Constrictor is not, and any stock rig that tries it is going to get into trouble. We need to make that point clear with a big obstacle right next to the sign.

 

[mbryson]

Originally posted by RockMonkey
I agree, it's not the rigs that are ruining the trails, it's the drivers. The problem is ANY driver taking ANY rig around an area that is not to his liking (be it too hard, or too easy). With that said, the well built rigs have an advantage. They can do the easy trails, and the stockers CAN NOT do the hard trails, and SHOULD NOT try. Any sign in front of Constrictor should make this point clear. Also, I think in some instances trail building (moving rocks to suit our needs) is appropriate. I think it may be appropriate to MOVE some big rocks in front of the trails designed to be very challenging to filter out the guys that can't read the sign. In the case of Rattlesnake, this is not appropriate, because that trail is easy enough to be done by most near-stockers. Constrictor is not, and any stock rig that tries it is going to get into trouble. We need to make that point clear with a big obstacle right next to the sign.

That Rodeo would make a great sign/filter......."This rig tride this trail. Don't let that happen to your rig".......35", two lockers and a winch required on this trail.....

 

[mbryson]

Originally posted by my4thjeep
In june i was down in fishlake national forest and they have great signs plus at the beginning of the trails they have a large map. it was pretty cool. It gave plenty of information to people new to the area.

One rule I think is often overlooked by people is the vehicle going up hill has the right of way.

Do you have pics or other documentation you could share?

 

[my4thjeep]

Originally posted by mbryson


Do you have pics or other documentation you could share?

I wish i did but my digital camera took a ride off my motorcycle at about 30 and didn't recover.

The map sign was your typical forest service map sign behind plexiglass and the trail markers were similar to the ones up AF canyon only with more detailed marks.

 

[Bart]

Great thread Marc. I think if there are rules, you've stated them clearly. Signs are a great idea. The hardest part to this whole thing is to get people to pay attention. It gets to be a testosterone thing for some (especially newbies) to tell their friends they've done a certain tough trail. Die Trying is a perfect example of an extreme trail that's been made easier from the stygma. Hopefully the troops can be educated and the masses informed, but it's going to take some effort to get the message across.
Bart

 

[britney]

Can and will there be a commitee put together to make this happen? There has been lots of "talk" but little action in the last few months, and I for one am ready for the action.

Is it possible to find/make more trails in that area? I think one of the problems is that those are the only two trails, that I know of. Maybe more trails(with signs) might help filter out some of the problems.

 

[XJcrazed]

First and foremost I think there needs to be contact information on all of the signs in the area in order to report abuses and problems. In a lot of areas around the Wasatch Front you can easily make cell phone calls. But if you're out at 5MP, or up a canyon and see some idiot off the trails, trashing vegetation, and throwing their trash on the ground, who do you call? The BLM? The Forest Service? How do I get a number without paying the 411 guy to look it up for me? If you see a sign that's been shot up, or some other property vandalized, who do you call? Does the BLM (or any other federal agency for that matter) have a hotline set up, or somewhere that you can at least leave a message after business hours when most of us are doing our wheeling? I think if there were good avenues of communication for users to report things to land managers it would be easier to resolve issues, and catch offending parties, who are 90% of the problem anyway.

Second, in the stated rules, trail etiquette definitely should be addressed. Besides staying on the trail (which everyone should know it’s ALWAYS said), and not littering, general courtesy should be addressed. Things like the trail belongs to everyone, not just you, and if you’re moving slow and another group comes up behind you, let them pass. IMO, this should be one of the longest sections in the rules.

Rob

 

[Hickey]

Originally posted by XJcrazed
First and foremost I think there needs to be contact information on all of the signs in the area in order to report abuses and problems

agreed, I would also like the signs to say that the trail is sponsored by RME with the web addres.

 

[RockMonkey]

Okay. so maybe something that says, please repot abuses to x at yyy-yyyy? And add to the rules something like this:
This trail belongs to everyone, please respect other users.

 

[Hickey]

this is gonna be a big sign.

 

[RockMonkey]

Originally posted by Hickey
this is gonna be a big sign.

Yeah, that was my concern too, this needs to all fit an a small sign, and be concise enough that people will actually read it.

 

[Hickey]

I would also like to see a very small map on the sign, describing the high points of the trail.

 

[Shawn]

You guy's blow my mind. I bring this up in the Mod forum and I get smacked around.. Bam!! here it is...




I'm glad to see it though.

 

[mbryson]

Originally posted by Shawn
You guy's blow my mind. I bring this up in the Mod forum and I get smacked around.. Bam!! here it is...




I'm glad to see it though.

That's what brought it on........Wish you could still read it....

 

[Skyetone]

I seem to be suprised by this board over and over.
We are all talking about marking and "warning" the trails out there at 5mpass. Thats all fine and dorrie, but how do you police the trails.


Here are my examples.............. Civily

I ran rattlesnake in feb-march? For the U4WDA rodeo (lots of fun) That trail was weak to what it was now. We (RME crew) got a slightly lifted runner and a stock cheroke up that trail past the falls. In fact the falls were the basic hard part of that trail.
I ran it on easter, Lifted runner open IFS and I couldn't get him half way up the trail due to rocks magically falling on the trail in precariosly dificult positions. I now that there were a few small trees that lived in that trail, now removed by 4x4's running them down to get to the more difficult line.

Constrictor.
I ran one of the first few runs up that trail, The FIRST obstical I had to really bump hard to get the rear tires over. Now it's stacked so deep I don't think I would have to even strugle.
Many trees have been lost (not trimmed) in the trail due to the nature of the loose shale. I personally witnessed a large amount of rocks get put at the eagles nest to assist winching up. There has been little to no attempt to get the rocks back where they go.

Shawn asked me the last time we were up there together if the trail was stacked from the last time I ran it. I said YEP its practically a highway. And it is. ANYONE who ran the very early CON on rattlesnake will say that the trails are changing constantly.
So early rattlesnake was a 3-3+ now its more like a 4-4+
Constrictor on the otherhand, 5 in the begining is now a 4-4+

What do we all say to that when the BLM asks?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Originally posted by Skyetone
...So early rattlesnake was a 3-3+ now its more like a 4-4+
Constrictor on the otherhand, 5 in the begining is now a 4-4+

What do we all say to that when the BLM asks?

So you are saying that RS and Con are the same?

Although Constrictor has changed dramastically from day one, it is still a much harder trail than RS. There are some parts of Con that will never get much easier... such as the Eagles nest.

The rocks that were moved into the base of Eagles nest are permanent, how are we going to put 1000lb boulders back on the hillside?

 

[Greg]

Originally posted by Shawn
You guy's blow my mind. I bring this up in the Mod forum and I get smacked around.. Bam!! here it is...
I'm glad to see it though.

It's a great idea, excecution is the Key I guess. Marc, being un-biased on the subject, figured he could tackle it. Feel free to join in with the suggestions you had. I know you are very passionate about the Con.

 

[Shawn]

Trust me, the Con will soon be hard again. It's only a matter of time. You said it Sky, RS WAS easy, now it's harder.. Can you imagine how hard it WILL be?

 

[EZRhino]

OK........

I think we can all agree that what is done is done concerning Rattlesnake. Let's all consider it a "finished" trail. Other than the minor changes due to vehicle passage, natural erosion and the minor amounts of rock stacking that do happen, I think we can all agree that it is "set up". Let's leave it be.

For trail ratings, maybe use a more general trail difficulty rating. Green, Blue, Black Diamond, Double Black. RS would be either Blue or Black. All trails rated by the easiest way through. I guess that makes it a Blue.

Signage......

Yeah, we'd need a pretty big sign. Let the kiosk at the highway have all that jazz on it. Let the sign at RS describe the name, the rating, the length, maybe where it ends, and one sentence of caution or advice. As stated earlier, put it where it's not visible or too obvious from far away. Con's sign would be up where it starts to get ugly.

Kiosk........

Big poster, more info. Has BLM contact info, Marc's rules, RME.com addy, a map, trail ratings, etc. State who is adopting what. Maybe Demon's club can do one, someone else's the other, RME the next.

I would suggest adding one more trail to the list, bringing the total of trails in the area to three. I am speaking of Chuck's Trail.

This stuff is very do-able for us. Who's building the first sign?

EZ