Eagles Nest illegal bypass

[Houndoc]

1. The BLM doesn't have an "official" Travel Plan for this area that I have ever seen... rather most of the area is either rated A (cross country permitted), B (limited use, existing roads/trails only) or private property (which is ALOT of the stuff out there.

2. The BLM is 100% aware of the Constrictor trail, remember they asked us to get the car out of there. In addition we talked with them about the signs, future trail sytems, etc.

A simple answer. Thanks!

My point was really simple as well. You (a general "you", not meaning a specific individual) show photos and talk about "creating" the trail, as it is/was and at the same time correctly condemn people going off existing trails.

Potentially confusing message, wouldn't you agree?

And I agree completely with all those saying that underprepared rigs/drivers need to stay off (myself included).

Good luck on the repair project.....when a date for the work is set I don't mind kicking in some labor if I am off work and can have a ride up. As a side note, I can see some good points to the gaurd rail idea. Ugly but effective and "official".

 

[waynehartwig]

I hear ya, I was only giving you crap because not too many people do with a leased jeep, what you do!

I don't intentionally roll either, but I would be more concerned about winch cable, hook, or other failure before I would worry about the anchor coming out.

 

[V-DAWG]

Have you ever spring cleared a trail as part of a Forest Service project? You are complaining about a single tree limb... We spent an entire day attacking a trail (trimming back limbs, moving trees, etc) for the Forest service just to get a trail back in condition from years of little use and winter over growth. Every run Mineral Basin in the Spring? Hey Joe Canyon in the spring?

Interesting choice of words.....

It is just a single tree limb- and that is the same f-ing attitude of the people who widen the trails. To them it is just one little bush/ tree/ moved rock/ etc. If just one person has just one little limb, each and every time they run the trail, think of the damage over 5 years of use. Now multiply that justification by everyone who runs the trail- and that is why it is as wide as I-15 now!

I am on your side- trust me- I want trails to remain open! There still hasn't been much answered as to who "authorized" the original use of the trail in the beginning. Do maps show the trail as being a mining route? I know there has been some erosion, but there is no way you can tell me vehicles drove up Eagles Nest as it was in the pic prior to the small group who conquered it from RME.

How about the topic of moving rocks? Rocks get thrown all over when people are spinning their tires up an obstacle, but I never see them replaced. Is it really that much worse to move them by hand and not return them?

Flame on!!!!!

 

[Badger]

learn to read dude the BLM gave them permission to be up there and to us a trail that was already there.end of story

if you are not going to contribute but instead dispute i would rather you just keep your mouth shut .this thread was started to figure out ways to keep a trail that is established with the BLM open and clean.if you can't contribute please don't enter the thread or post

 

[DToy]

learn to read dude the BLM gave them permission to be up there and to us a trail that was already there.end of story

if you are not going to contribute but instead dispute i would rather you just keep your mouth shut .this thread was started to figure out ways to keep a trail that is established with the BLM open and clean.if you can't contribute please don't enter the thread or post

Amen. Too many people on this thread are totally missing the point. This thread is about keeping the trail open, eliminating the bypasses that should not be there, and installing a winch anchor above Eagle's Nest. Period. If you don't have something constructive to add to these goals, and you don't want to go back and read the previous 10+ pages so that you can be informed as to this thread's purpose, then stay out, and keep your instigating comments to yourself.

 

[Greg]

Amen. Too many people on this thread are totally missing the point. This thread is about keeping the trail open, eliminating the bypasses that should not be there, and installing a winch anchor above Eagle's Nest. Period. If you don't have something constructive to add to these goals, and you don't want to go back and read the previous 10+ pages so that you can be informed as to this thread's purpose, then stay out, and keep your instigating comments to yourself.

Well said Badger & Darrell. Lets focus on the positive and get this done.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Lots of good replies...

Ill answer a few questions.

Do maps show Constricor? I have an early map (30's?) that shows a trail 1/2 way up the canyon. As for current maps, no.. but on the same hand, they don't show Rattlesnake, Charlies trail nor hundereds of miles of other trails in the area. This IS something we (U4WDA) are working on with the BLM. They know that the current trail inventory is not too current. It was last inventoried in ~91'? And likely didn't include anything deemed not passable by a stock rig (such as many of the inventories throughout Utah). They know of the current trails in the area, and they know how dear to our hearts they are. I spoke for quite a while about them.

As for the future of of 5MPRA. They will shortly eliminate all of the "open" cross country travel areas, and they will limit all motorized travel to existing trails only. What we need to do is make sure all of our routes (as far south as Little Moab) get recognized as existing (as I mentioned their inventory is way outdated).

How will Rattlesnake and Constrictor fair?

Rattlesnake is in a "open" cross country travel area as best I can tell (I will inspect closer at a meeting with the BLM). As long as we can get them to recognize it (if they don't already, I don't know which ones they have inventoried), it will be fine. Constrictor is the same situation though it does not lie entirely in an open travel area. In fact a large part of Constrictor exists on private property (as many of the area trails cross in and out of). Turn of the century patent mine claims left all sorts of owners out in the area. Once again if we can get Constrictor recognized, it is fine. This of course will be subject to a public hearing (I assume sometime next year) and of course some negative input from all the hikers that enjoy the scenery in the area .

I'll post more as it comes, hopefully this thread will end here (for a while) as I am honestly wore out on the whole "internet/Constrictor" thing. Please respect that as I will...

 

[reddman]

so for those of us who dont wanna read 14 pages but do want to come lend a hand for this, when are you guys thinking this will take place? i need a good excuse to take my rig down there anyways.

 

[waynehartwig]

so for those of us who dont wanna read 14 pages but do want to come lend a hand for this, when are you guys thinking this will take place? i need a good excuse to take my rig down there anyways.

If I remember right, about 5 pages ago, I think it was decided in about a month - after things dry out.

 

[chadschoon]

I have backhoes, Mini trackhoes, and bobcats. I dont know if you want that big of a hole though.

 

[Hickey]

I just want to jump in here and say... Kurt, you kick ass! I love you man!

 

[Kris K]

So would it be a waste of my day to hangout at the start of Con and keep people off the bypass? I have all saturday.

 

[Hickey]

After going out there yesterday, I think that if we clean out all the debris under the Nest, the bypass will quickly become nasty ugly scary. Most of the debris came from the bypass side of that shelf. Everything slides left to right on that slab.

 

[ZUKEYPR]

I said before and I'll jusay it again, everyone is never going to agree 100%, just respect the other guy/gals opinion. You don't have to agree with it, just respect it. That said

1. Everyone has a right to be on whatever trail. However, if you're going to run it you should be self sufficient enough to be able to fix your junk or self recovery. If you're not capable of that you shouldn't be on it. You as a responsible four wheeler you should as well scout the trail by foot if need be if you have never been on it, or drive, then scout by foot, drive, then scout by foot. I personally attempted Constrictor myself (without bypasses) I believe like two years ago in my Passport ( I made it halfway without incident) until I came upon (don't know the name of the obstacle but I see everyone struggle with it). Anyway, I realized then that I wouldn't make it without, more than likely more damage than I was willing to except so I turned around and went back to the start. No harm no foul.

2. Bypasses should not occur. You run it as it is. Bypasses cause undue errosion. It's that simple I was on RS last year and witnessed a few rock buggies, who I know for a fact that are members of this board, running up every ledge, rock that there was. Problem is nearly all of them were not part of the trail. The fact is you slow bypasses being constructed by education, but as I said earlier you have to start it at a young age as in elementary. Most disagreed with me on that but funny thing is now that is exactly what tread lightly is targeting. Imagine that. That being said you still will not stop it totally because the fact is there are just some A holes out there that don't give a **** about rules and regulations. Their the same folks who make right hand turns on state street from the far left hand lane. Their the same folks who get loud and belingerent at RMR when you are trying to enjoy some quality time with your family. They are the same folks who leave their popcorm and soda containers laying on the floor or seat at the theater with the mind set of "it isn't my problem".

3. Part of the problem with CS I believe is folks get all the way to the end without scouting (see item #1) and realize that they can't get over the eagles nest. Then they realize that most likely due to the major trail use that they cannot come back the way they came so then the next time out the inconsiderate A hole decides to start constructing bypasses.

4. Yes, email me when you wish to repair the trail. I can't so alot of heavy lifting anymore do to health issues but I'll do anything and everything that I can to help. I will need a rid eup the trail though because the Passort tranny is shot and can't make it all the way and the Rubicon is still in stock form and will not make it either.

 

[Houndoc]

Great summary ZUKEYPR on proper edicate on line and on the trail!

And thanks to Kurt and all the others who work to keep trails open. A proper trail inventory is going to be critical down the road.

 

[DToy]

1. Everyone has a right to be on whatever trail. However, if you're going to run it you should be self sufficient enough to be able to fix your junk or self recovery. If you're not capable of that you shouldn't be on it.

That's why there is a sign at the start of Constrictor. If you don't have the necessary basic equipment to run the trail, you shouldn't be on it. This is exactly why bypasses occur - when unprepared rigs or drivers disregard the warnings and trail descriptions. On a busy weekend, these people are the ones that create traffic jams on the trails, causing frustration for those who are properly equipped. Everyone has a right to be on whatever trail, BUT ONLY IF THEY AND THEIR VEHICLES ARE PROPERLY PREPARED AND EQUIPPED!

3. Part of the problem with CS I believe is folks get all the way to the end without scouting (see item #1) and realize that they can't get over the eagles nest. Then they realize that most likely due to the major trail use that they cannot come back the way they came so then the next time out the inconsiderate A hole decides to start constructing bypasses.

The real problem is that these people do not do any research about the trail before they attempt to run it, and they are either illiterate or simply too arrogant to read and interpret the sign at the start of the trail. No one should get to the Eagle's Nest and then come to the realization that they can't get over it - it's spelled out as plainly as possible at the start of the trail.

I'm not saying that all bypasses are created by people in less-than-adequately equipped vehicles. I have seen several people in well-built, highly modified vehicles, and ATV's make bypasses and stray off the trail because they don't think the trail is challenging.

 

[Jinx]

Posting again because it seems relevant and it was way back on page 2.

When we will people understand the simple concept for wheelin-

#1 Don't make easy trails hard.
ie all of the alternate routes on poison spider. Yes there are a bunch of us that can make a right turn at the water fall, but should we?

#2 Don't make hard trails easy.
ie with enough effort we can pave every trail out there or make bypasses so the family mini van can see the scenery, but again should we?

We that said, how can I help?
Kurt just let me know when and where...

 

[WildYoats]

*Subscribes to thread (after reading ENTIRE thread)

I am game to assist in any such manner as well. Many good valid points have been displayed in the last 15 pages. I will admit, since I sold the hardcore 4Runner, I have not visited the Con (because I knew what the trail entailed and felt the FZJ80 may not have been a good choice). It saddens me to hear what has happened.

We have all made mistakes in life and nobody is perfect. But we learn from our mistakes and CORRECT them. Now is the time.

Who did what, which person did this, bah and bah I say. Now it's time to turn the page and get it done.

I am all about assisting in whatever needs to be done to get it where it needs to be. Thus the reason I subscribe.

Let me know and I will be there.