Ground Zero Mosque, how do you feel?

Bobzilla

Active Member
Location
Loma Colorado
Me or him?

It's painful that I feel like have to point out that I'm not the one talking about conspiracy theories, furthering religious agenda's, or the gradual overtaking of the US government by an extreme religious minority. The antecedent to "extreme" being minority, not religious. (in case that wasn't obvious) So, if you actually think I'm the paranoid one then I'm completely beside myself and not willing to participate in this discussion any more.

I wish there were an airplane trick for explaining things to people. That seems to work when I need to make my nephew eat his grapes.

Good question "Me or Him"
I thought you were the person with all the answers? as I said time will tell what happens in this country, I hope you are right and I and many others are just full of conspiracy theories and full of s---t in regards to our fellow religious citizens.
 

roverrocks

Active Member
Location
Montose,CO
Cody, you remind me of Neville Chamberlain as he buckled under ignorantly and tried to appease the menace of Hitler and his Nazi legions. He did not get it and look where it ultimately led when he and others refused to believe or admit that a dark cloud was on the horizon. His head was in the sand. One can confront the dangers of the forthcoming future now and draw a line in the sand or .............................. wait blindly until the future hits us square in the face and our children's future is in grave doubt.
 

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
Gastown
Cody, you remind me of Neville Chamberlain as he buckled under ignorantly and tried to appease the menace of Hitler and his Nazi legions. He did not get it and look where it ultimately led when he and others refused to believe or admit that a dark cloud was on the horizon. His head was in the sand. One can confront the dangers of the forthcoming future now and draw a line in the sand or .............................. wait blindly until the future hits us square in the face and our children's future is in grave doubt.

Ok, McCarthy. :rofl:
 

Spork

Tin Foil Hat Equipped
You got it, correction "near ground zero"

And would you please stop refering to myself as "Paranoid"

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you... :spork::spork::spork:

And since I'm here... my thoughts. The mosque/community center is being utilized by the various organizations to further their purposes. The Mosque supporters don't have 1% of the funds needed and without this attention to draw funds they couldn't build it. The Media is using it for a polarizing story evidenced by the references to the mosque "at" ground zero. The political powers are using it to either show strength or show constitutional understanding. There is also a force lurking that is linking Obama to the Muslim faith and this is a tool to do so.

Personally I don't care, if they have the money and the city zoning allows it then build away. I'm not in favor of someone across the country telling me what I should do with land and I think I ought to return the favor.
 

SAMI

Formerly Beardy McGee
Location
SLC, UT
Personally I don't care, if they have the money and the city zoning allows it then build away. I'm not in favor of someone across the country telling me what I should do with land and I think I ought to return the favor.

Well said.
 

ID Bronco

Registered User
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
Nope. But the LDS church owns the property and built a monument there in 1999.

Thanks, I forgot to comment on that one.

I am also too lazy to go through all the pages again but somone compared the inquisition to wrongs done by lds members (not the leadership in most cases) (also a people who were beaten and had an extermiantion order placed upon their heads) This is not even in the same ballpark. I guess I am just saying it was a very poor comparison. Interesting how we can't have a discussion without the LDS church being blammed for something.

Off topic, what download is right for the spell check?
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
Thanks, I forgot to comment on that one.

I am also too lazy to go through all the pages again but somone compared the inquisition to wrongs done by lds members (not the leadership in most cases) (also a people who were beaten and had an extermiantion order placed upon their heads) This is not even in the same ballpark. I guess I am just saying it was a very poor comparison. Interesting how we can't have a discussion without the LDS church being blammed for something.

Off topic, what download is right for the spell check?

Where did the LDS church get blamed for anything in this thread? Cody simply remarked that putting a mosque near Ground Zero would be akin to an LDS installation at or near Mountain Meadows Massacre. Every group has stains in their history, its how they move forward that matters.

I really don't think its poor comparison at all in fact I think it is a perfect example of hypocrisy. I have absolute zero ill will with the LDS churches involvement with the modern MMM site in fact I applaud their efforts to memorialize the place... just the same I have no ill-will that law-abiding Muslim citizens of the US want to build a mosque near GZ. If they have the money, let them. Another interesting point, the LDS church refused to sell the MMM property to a group of decedents and in fact actually purchased more land around the MMM site to protect it from encroachment. While this has caused controversy with decedents (that and the monument construction that tore into the graves of 30 dead), I think it shows the LDS churches willingness to preserve and protect this hallow ground.

Lets not even get into the US treatment of Japanese-American citizens during WWII, zero of which were ever convicted of any form of crimes against our country. Shall we put Muslims in interment camps until our crime on terrorism is over?
 

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
Gastown
ID Bronco: I'm not sure what spell check you're looking for, but if you download the latest versions of Chrome or Firefox it should automatically spell check your posts as you write them similar to what Word does.

Roverrocks compared the Crusades to LDS history, and I agree this isn't a fair parallel.

But, back to the topic at hand I think this is key...

Personally I don't care, if they have the money and the city zoning allows it then build away. I'm not in favor of someone across the country telling me what I should do with land and I think I ought to return the favor

The rest of the debate from my end centers around the philosophical reasons why someone would try to prevent such a thing based up on religious grounds.
 

spencurai

Vanilla Gorilla
Location
WVC,UT
So to sum up this thread...

against: I don't like muslims because some muslims are bad so american citizens(or people legally in the country) of the muslim faith shouldn't be allowed to practice their religion when and where they please like every other religion in the country.

for: Stop being bigots and mind your own damn business. All religions have assholes, get over it and let citizens practice their religions when and where they please.
 

Spidey

Active Member
Location
Lehi,Ut
Yes McCarthy has been proven correct. Too bad he was an idiot the way he went about his hunt for Communists. Much like the GOP leaders of today. Too bad most great conservative men shy away from public service in favor of business and family only to leave egotistical knuckleheads like Limbaugh, McCain, Palin, etc. with the reigns.

The Mosque near Ground Zero is still too early in the healing process and it's location should be last resort. Yes, Manhattan real estate is hard to come by, but not impossible. Scars are still fresh and no atonement or closure has occurred. Time has healed Pearl Harbor, and many attempts have been made to heal MMM not to mention their are no living descendants of MMM that knew victims of the tragedy personally as all generation overlapping has passed.

One thing I find interesting is the open minded socially liberal anti religionist view is usually too close minded to entertain what they dub as conspiracy theories.
Ten years ago I would laugh at theories some would profess. Funny how many of those now are common knowledge in the general public. For instance, ten years ago you would be a weirdo if you thought their was a large group of self professed socialists in the house of congress, now we have 70 self professed members of the S.P.A. It is now safer to come out of that closet, which to me seams like a dark day in American history.
Only accepting ideas that are politically correct, publicly accepted and popularly proven is what sounds close minded if you ask me.
I think time will continue to prove weirdo, supposedly far right wingers correct in these matters and the majority of others. I dont agree with how many of the righties voice opinion so abrasively, but I'll take it over the ambiguous speech of the left.
Badger made one point I liked, he explained that harder you try and change someone the more they will resist. I think this is why the lefties have been more successful as of late in media. They are more subtle and silver tongued making the new progressive/socialist thinking easier to swallow for the less decided masses.
Maybe it is intellectually fashionable to accept a mosque so near ground zero at this time, but it is ignorant to a very large group of victims still struggling with the aftermath of the tragedy. The appropriate time is years from now when the small children who lost father and mothers are ready to forgive. The time is when the islamic nations responsible seek forgiveness and make an approach toward restitution. The time is not yet when it is so easy to question the motive of the group seeking. I do think it is insensitive. And people have every right to be suspicious.
 
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jackjoh

Jack - KC6NAR
Supporting Member
Location
Riverton, UT
I would like to see more Muslims coming out against suicide bombers killing civilians in many countries. Then I might start to believe they don't support the suicide bombers and really are peaceful.
 

GOAT

Back from the beyond
Location
Roanoke, VA
So, what are any of you, we, us, them, they, going to do about it...................... not a fawking thing.










enjoy your chips america.
 
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