If I rant about....

[Cody]

To mimic jet's comment to Stripedshirt.....for sure. That’s awesome.

The reason that is an uncommon thing in Utah is that in the LDS church (and the schools--which are basically church managed) the only thing that is taught is abstinence. Nobody is told how to prevent a pregnancy.

This isn't a slam on the church, because there are other places in the US that are similar for similar reasons but different groups in control. It's not just an LDS thing.


I've thought about moving out of state. But, to be perfectly honest, I love it here. There is so much to do and there are very few places that offer those things. Potentially Denver, maybe Portland. San Diego is worth sacrificing the mountains for. Victoria would be sweet. But, my job now isn't one that I could just transfer to another office. I want to finish grad school before I'm 30 so maybe in the next couple years I'll take off and do that somewhere else. Until then, GOAT's wife is stuck listening to me

 

[Cody]

So want happened with the girl you were talking to the other night??

Which one? The waitress? She probably wasn't blind and/or had average/above average self esteem. Way out of my league.

 

[Paul R]

Good for you!

CONGRATS!!!

To mimic jet's comment to Stripedshirt.....for sure. That’s awesome.

Thank you I am so stoked!!! :greg:

I fully realize that marraige is not a always going to be the easy road but I can't think of anyone I'd rather be with.

I think that realizing that it isn't always easy is a big problem too. Todays mentality is to always take the easy way out and run back to mommy and daddy... :-\

Ask me in ten years if it was good or bad but for now I am going on ahead and I am happy!

 

[StrobeNGH]

Cody: for what it's worth, I have not shared all of your experiences with dating in Utah.
my disclaimer is that I moved to Pttsburgh when I was 25, but of all the dates I went on in Utah, not one girl had ever been married.
That includes girls from 18 to 33 (serious girlfriends: 1 20 year old, 2 23 year olds, 1 25 year old, and 1 27 year old; less-serious [regular dating/make-out friends]- 1 19 year old, 2 20 year olds, 2 22 year olds, 3 24 year olds, 2 25 year olds, and 1 33 year old).

I have only known 10 girls who were divorced.
I know that the girls of which you speak are out there, but they are not as prevalent as you might think.

Now, you are definitely onto something with your comments about Utah girls not having an identity.

I mean, look at how they all dress! When I moved to Pitt I was SHOCKED at the myriad of styles that I encountered.

There are really only 6 styles in Utah:
UVSC, BYU, U of U, Utah State, Snow ugh, and Dixie.

And you are also right about it being LDS members who are a major cause of the problem.
The LDS church encourages parents to teach their children to educate themselves as much as possible, and to develop themselves into good people, and get married when the time is right. It's a three-part plan.

A lot of parents seem to skip to the end and figure that marriage is the best way to improve yourself, so they push their children (and other children they associate with) to get married ASAP (there may be something to be said about parents being insecure and not wanting their children to do better than they did, but we won't go there).
The result is a lemming effect, where you have kids who think that marriage is the end-all, be-all of their existence, and they run headlong over the cliff to get married.

The tragedy is not that they get married so fast, but that they miss all the wonderful opportunities available to them along the way.
No one seems to be teaching their kids to stop and smell the roses.

Perhaps my viewpoint is biased. I can see lots of successful marriages that were formed when they were young--and I applaud you. I really do. But, if you were in my shoes you would see a different world. I'm almost 27 and I would say that of the last 10 girls i've dated they break down like this.

3 were 21-22--no baggage. Had no idea of who they are. They think they do, but you dig a little deaper and it's all theory. I thought I had things figured out reasonably well when I was that age too so in a couple years I'm sure they'll be ok. But, we're in totally different places in life. I had nothing in common with them. Talking to them was like talking to a drying wall of paint.

6 were 23-28. 4 divorced. 3 with at least 1 kid. A couple of them were interesting, but had baggage (which isn't necessarily a deal breaker) that prevented our lifestyles and schedules to permit anything other than hanging out once in awhile.

1 was/is 33. Divorced, 2 kids (11, 9). Pretty freakin cool actually but has her hands full raising her kids and supporting herself. Every other week is a no go since she has her kids, and being that I'm not exactly father material I'm not going to go hang out like a replacement dad during those weeks.


so when 50% of the dating pool is divorced, and 50% have kids, you begin to form oppinions about the nature of marriage--especially in Utah. Maybe thats why my viewpoint is skewed the opposite direction.

 

[notajeep]

100% of all divorses begin with marraige/
That is all.

 

[Kiel]

I didn't know Goat had a wife

 

[Meat_]

...And for the record, the LDS church does NOT teach that people should get married while young. The church teaches that people should get married when the time is right for them. It is an individual choice..

There is a HUGE difference between what the LDS church teaches and what the general population takes home with them.

I didn't know Goat had a wife

Yup, shows where you rank ehh?

 

[StrobeNGH]

There is a HUGE difference between what the LDS church teaches and what the general population takes home with them.

People have always heard what they wanted to hear . . . regardless of what was said.

For a psychology class we brought in two people from another class, and asked them to debate a topic.
We gave them both the same topic to "argue."
If they would have listened to what was being said, they would have realized that there was nothing to argue.
Instead, they went after each other for 10 minutes before running out of things to say.

 

[reddevil]

I will probably offend a few and apologize now for doing so.

As an outsider, I agree quite a bit with Cody, even if he still has a few years to go. Particulalry, the comment about some of the damaged goods running around. I attribute this to the pressure by Utah society to marry young and immediately start producing offspring. I know a quite a few girls that are fairly attractive, yet feel like failures because they haven't married, become a housewife and produced children at 21. They feel this way even though they have solid careers and a decent income in place at 21.

When I was dating, it is was very difficult to find someone in my age group or at least close, that I didn't run like hell from after the first five minutes.

The one thing that has always baffled me was all the emphasis on young people to hold out on losing their virginity for marriage. Yes, I understand the whole faith/convicition deal, but facts are facts. They then marry another virgin as soon as they get home and lock themselves into relationship with children (most likely concieved on honeymoon) never knowing anything else. I see it when I am forced to leave the shelter of my home and venture out for shopping. The wife has a multitude of children in tote, the father has one strapped to his chest and you can see the hopelessness on the husband's face as they dig through the clearance rack at Ikea.

I tell my friends from out of state to think back to some of the less_than _steller sexual experiences they've had. I then say okay, now your married with children to that person spending not only the rest of your life, but also all of eternity never knowing anything else

Hmm, I wonder why Utah leads the country in bankruptcy, prescription drug abuse and use of anti-depressants.

rant/off

Ikea has a clearance rack? I am so glad I broke down and read this thread.

And all I can say is when it is right then it is right. Just take the time to make sure it is right. I know that I made the right choice with my wife, and I try really hard every day to keep her from thinking that she could have done better.
And for the numbers, I was 23 and she was 22 and we waited 5 years to have our first kid. It worked out for me, so I think everyone should do it that way.

 

[TRNDRVR]

I don't think any couple should get married until they have dated/lived together for at least 17+ years.

I got married 11 days before my 35th birthday.

10 years of marriage, 28 years of being together.

Besides my children, I have no regrets.

 

[Skylinerider]

It worked out for me, so I think everyone should do it that way.

That is about the truest thing said in the whole thread.
Do it my way because I'm smarter than you:greg: