IFS vs. SAS

[Thardy]

I know the question has been asked many times but I kinda want a local opinion.

Do I need an SAS??

The more I research the more I question. I have a 96 Toyota 4Runner and my intentions have always been to save money for my SAS. Now my question is what do I need for the type of wheeling that I do. I look at all the rigs that have done it, and yes they are BAD A$$ but a lot of work. Then I see Sixstringsteves Tacoma and think of how much simpler it seems. What are the advantages to both. I don't know much about the IFS but how durable is it? What am I going to have issues with? Rack and pinion, CV axles? I know it will be cheaper to keep the IFS but after repairs and upkeep how much cheaper will it be. Most of my wheeling consists of a couple trips to Moab a year trails like Hells and Strike Ravine, Local stuff like AFC, Snakes, and PET type trails. So a very big diversity. Is it worth an SAS for a couple trips a year to Moab?

So I need you to talk me into one way or the other. My mind was made up but has become open again. Here is my current setup.

96 Toyota 4Runner
LC rear coil lift with top plate front. 2.5-3" (I know I would need to do something about the top plates)
currently running 285/75r16
would like to run 315/75r16
Have a rear e-locker
would like a front e-locker. (what would my options be?)
not afraid of cutting or fabing to get the 35's to fit. (might need some help tubbing)

SCHOOL ME!!!!

 

[Kevin B.]

You know my opinion. I don't think you need a straight axle for what you do with that rig. Toyota IFS rigs have driven Pritchett (and now Hanging Tree), and what trails do you want to run that's harder than those?

Might sound funny coming from a guy that just bought a solid axle truck, but I'm still a fan of the IFS and think it's highly underrated.

 

[iamsparticus]

For what you do id just stick with it till something major on your IFS starts to fail then SAS. For know you can run low profile bump stops, and maybe upgrade your upper arms to uniball type arms and run with it. The solid axle front it great but unless your either breaking IFS parts alot or doing harder stuff than you listed i think your fine for now

 

[Thardy]

Might sound funny coming from a guy that just bought a solid axle truck, but I'm still a fan of the IFS and think it's highly underrated.

You kinda bought that out of default though. You wouldnt have if the 86 hadn't taken a crap.

I'm starting to think it might be the way to go. But I don't know the cost of maintaning an IFS.

 

[Kevin B.]

But I don't know the cost of maintaning an IFS.

IFS doesn't cost a dime when your junk never sees dirt. Maybe if you stopped going to garden parties with your wife and actually wheeled with us once in a while you'd get around to breaking something.

But I think you should run the IFS until you're wheeling hard enough that it won't keep up. When you suffer catastrophic IFS failure, or get to the point that you're busting CVs every trip, then it's time for the straight axle.

 

[Thardy]

IFS doesn't cost a dime when your junk never sees dirt. Maybe if you stopped going to garden parties with your wife and actually wheeled with us once in a while you'd actually break something.

Wow!! Below the belt dude.

 

[Rot Box]

I think Toyota did a great job designing the 3rd gen 4runner front suspension. The coil struts and rack/pinion was a very smart move and it proves to be very reliable. They're easy to service/fix in the field with the right tools and part if need be. That said everything has its limits and it would get old fast if you are repairing it often...

My vote is stick with the IFS if you don't plan on larger tires than 285's. If your thinking bigger tires and more extreme trails than what you've listed consider the swap.

 

[Kevin B.]

Wow!! Below the belt dude.

We talk smack because we love .

 

[sixstringsteve]

I can go for hours on this topic, but I'll try to hold back.

Some people do need a sas, some don't.

Here are a few things to consider:

- what type of roads/trails will the vehicle spend 95% of its time driving?
- how good of a wheeler are you?
- are you the type who likes to gas it and power through/bounce over obstacles, or do you like to take it easy and crawl?
- are you the type of person who tries every obstacle on a trail, or are you ok with taking bypasses?
- are you more interested in crawling the gnarliest thing you can find, or just getting out?
- how often do you wheel? I"m not asking how often you'd like to wheel. How often do you get out in 4Lo and use the rear locker? I've come to the conclusion that a lot (not all) of people build their rig for tough trails or a specific obstacle that they'll probably only drive twice in their life. It doesn't seem worth it to me.


If you're smooth, in control, and you're not trying to get up wayne's world and eagle's nest, I say stick with the IFS. I've never broken a single thing on my ifs rigs. I've been driving a lot of washboard roads lately, and I'd never want a solid axle on those. It all comes down to the fact that there is no perfect vehicle for every situation. A lot of guys online talk like the IFS is weak. It's not. The tundras use the same front diffs as we do, along with the axles. Carry a spare CV if you're worried ($70) and take it as a spare.

Now, a solid axle does look amazing, and the inners are super tough. But it's not necessary, and you sacrifice a lot of driving comfort unless you really know what you're doing on the sas. I'd be happy to answer any other questions you may have.

 

[Cascadia]

I like this topic. I've been contemplating the same thing for my 92 4runner. I'm majorly leaning towards leaving it ifs. Maybe getting some extended control arms and some coilovers and a v6 rear axle for width depending on my final build and goals. I like how smooth it rides in its stock form. All of the local trails and a lot of Moab are doable with ifs and there is a lot of driving and not a lot of crawling when you look at the big picture of the trail. Sure there are some trails that I won't be able to do but I can try. If I find that I want to attempt harder trails I can change the rig down the road. For now I'd like to see what it can handle in comfort.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Then I see Sixstringsteves Tacoma and think of how much simpler it seems.

Yes, it's simple, and it drives like it came from the factory, and it wheels like crazy. My rear springs flex so much that I don't end up lifting tires very often. It feels super stable both on and off road. And, when driving on fast dirt roads, it's far more comfortable and in control than a solid axle.

I don't know much about the IFS but how durable is it? What am I going to have issues with? Rack and pinion, CV axles? I know it will be cheaper to keep the IFS but after repairs and upkeep how much cheaper will it be.

very durable. It'll handle 33's no problem. 35's if you're smooth and cautious. If you have a front locker, the weak link becomes the CV's, but those are only $70 (with a lifetime warrantly from autozone/checker) and you can swap 'em in 40 min or less. Rack and pinions start getting worn around 250k. I've never had to replace one, but TG sells a refurbished unit for $500. The "weak link" on these rigs is ball joints and tie rod ends. Using factory toyota parts, replace both every 100k (whether it's lifted or not) and you won't have an issue. It'll be at least $5000 cheaper to keep the ifs. Think of the gas you could buy with that! A lot of people forget that after you do a sas, you still have to beef up the front axle to handle big tires, and your truck will never be 100% "done." There are always little things that creep up and aren't 100% compatible. It can often take years to get a sas to where all the kinks are worked out.

Most of my wheeling consists of a couple trips to Moab a year trails like Hells and Strike Ravine, Local stuff like AFC, Snakes, and PET type trails. So a very big diversity. Is it worth an SAS for a couple trips a year to Moab?

No, it's not worth it, especially for those trails. Hell's can be done in a stock 4runner with sliders. I've run hell's more in ifs rigs than solid axle rigs. I've done golden spike, steelbender, hell's revenge, fins n things, poison spider, gold bar rim, strike ravine, the rubicon, hanging tree, mineral basin, forest lake, and others in my ifs rigs and it I never felt like they held me back once I disconnected the sway bar. For PET type of stuff, you'll want ifs. Those rough washboards just get rougher with a solid axle.

currently running 285/75r16
would like to run 315/75r16

You're currently running 33s, and you want to run 34.6's? Not to be rude, but why do you want to run bigger tires? REalize it'll be worse on the freeway, you'll need to regear ($$$$), and it'll rub more and put more stress on the IFS (even though it can handle it). When I replace my tires I'm going to go with something narrower than 12.50.

Have a rear e-locker
would like a front e-locker. (what would my options be?)
[/SIZE]

Zero options for a front e-locker with an ifs (7.5") diff. You can get an ARB ($1500 ish). ARBs are air-lockers and do really well. They also upgrade the stock spider gears with stronger spider gears.

not afraid of cutting or fabing to get the 35's to fit. (might need some help tubbing)
[/SIZE]

Good, because you're going to need to cut A LOT! I'm guessing you'll need help too, it's a lot of tedious work and it's irreversible once you're done.

 

[frieed]

... and it's irreversible once you're done.

What! ... you didn't save the parts you cut out

 

[jentzschman]

I wanted to go sas, but now I can see I like ifs much better for the type of off road use I am now enjoying.

After doing 1k+ miles this past week, the ifs is where its at, IMHO.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Different strokes for different folks, this is one of those variables that doesn't have a clear cut answer as each users needs varies more than each users actual vehicle choice. I always told myself I was going to do an SAS on my '96 Tacoma the day I paid it off. Well that day came and went and I had grown to really enjoy the ride quality and spring capacity for the traveling I was doing. Fast forward nearly 10 years and I feel the same, its not for me but I've got my old FJ40 when I get a hankering for a more techincal trail.

Make yourself a 'build plan'. I'm going to be talking about this more in my upcoming "Hundy" build thread but while it may seem a little over analytical, it your past, current and future needs that need to be satisfied with your vehicle selection and build plans. While the powers of the internet can surely help you form a foundation and inspire ideas... It cannot reasonably choose what is ultimately right for you.

 

[JL Rockies]

IFS = EXPO

 

[dutchman]

I like the idea of you staying IFS, I'm keeping mine! After reading about Steve hitting the Rubicon with IFS, I realized that I don't wheel hard enough, frequently enough to justify SAS. Plus, since Kevin got his '85 and Andrew's got SAS, you need to keep the IFS to even things out!

 

[UFAB]

Toyota IFS will work fine, hard to swap in a Solid axle and have low CG. Getting good up travel for the diff to clear and shocks to cycle is hard for an everyday driver at a reasonable height.

 

[sixstringsteve]

^^^ especially on a 3rd gen. Those oil pans get in the way.

I like the idea of you staying IFS, I'm keeping mine! After reading about Steve hitting the Rubicon with IFS, I realized that I don't wheel hard enough, frequently enough to justify SAS.

The Rubicon was NOTHING compared to Hanging Tree. I was super impressed with my rig for getting through there without damage.

 

[TJDukit]

For most of the trails most people will ever want to run IFS will probably serve your purposes just fine. I've been seriously impressed with IFS Toyotas in the past couple years and almost got one when I bought my Jeep.

IFS would actually not make sense for me at all but like Kurt said different strokes for different folks. I would bet most people that grab an IFS rig and do an SAS on it never even see the potential of the rig they are changing. I thrive on stuff like Hanging Tree so IFS just really isn't for me. For someone doing PET, Rattle-Con and any trail up AFC and probably most down in Moab the IFS is more than capable.

 

[dutchman]

^^^ especially on a 3rd gen. Those oil pans get in the way.




The Rubicon was NOTHING compared to Hanging Tree. I was super impressed with my rig for getting through there without damage.

After looking through your reports, I'm impressed too!

Keep the IFS THardy!!