Lack of Patriotism

[Cherokeester]

Socialism

The pseudo-capitalism that we practice as a nation is in reality, socialism (by your definitions) by selection. Subsidies and tax breaks are elements of economic socialism utilized for the benefit of business and government at your expense. You pay for it. Without any representation, or at a minimum, your involvement. Trickle down economics doesn't work. At least, not for us (see dissolving middle class).

I listened a professor the other day talking about the economic "boom" of Utah over the last ten years. He focused on the explosion in profit and growth for big business, yet the average worker's income remained the same. Even when factoring in COLA. What was the solution, not increasing wages with a minimum reduction in profit. Nope, it was creative lending, and here we are right now. F'ed.

It seems for most it is much easier to focus on the individual welfare recipient or the immigrant and rant how they are bleeding the country dry rather than the ones that are really banging you out. I lived on the border of Mexico and saw the results of NAFTA firsthand. I can tell you that we brought it on ourselves

True socialism, communism and to a higher degree, nirvana is a fallacy. We as a species just aren't ready. Maybe someday. For now we have this evolution, food/air thing to sort out.

Does feeling this way make me unpatriotic? I don't think so. Hell, I am still moved when I hear Born in the USA (IMHO one of the best protest songs ever), and angry when I see us being divided and conquered through class warfare.

I will always admire and respect the individual sacrifices that public servants, including the military make every day. My loyalty and respect is to you.

However, dissent is critical to our survival as a nation, and that includes the right to right to burn the flag in protest. Even if we don't agree with it.

I will never confuse patriotism with nationalism.

definition found here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism

MP

I am not arguing you do not have the right to do whatever you want to the flag. I am saying that it offends me personally and I think it is unpatriotic. Do whatever you want, just not on my yard.

 

[GOAT]

I am not arguing you do not have the right to do whatever you want to the flag. I am saying that it offends me personally and I think it is unpatriotic. Do whatever you want, just not on my yard.

Agreed, NIMB across the board.

BTW. I wasn't referring to your posts. I don't even own a flag, much less have any desire to burn one.

 

[unltd1]

My flag was made in Korea!!!

Bwaaaa ha ha haaaaa!!!! AAAAAHHHHHH ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!

It was probably made by some 6 year old with his ankle chained to a sewing machine, working 15 hours a day for a dollar a week, while his boss shows him pictures of his mother with a gun to her head......just so we can BUY our AMERICAN flag for $3.59 at Walmart, which encourages its own employees IN AMERICA to apply for MEDICAID because it won't pay any decent benefits. So that precious American flag you'll cry freedom for is actually supporting human rights violations, both IN AMERICA and in AMERICAN companies run overseas (so they don't have to pay AMERICANS the minimum wages we demand for the hours we demand in the conditions we demand as part of our RIGHTS)......


....breathe.......breathe deep.....ignorance is blisssssssssss. "God Bless America".......that's it.......everything is going to be ok.......Hey! What's on cable right now? American Gladiators????? HOORAY!!!!!!

gotta run.........

 

[unltd1]

From an article in the Christian Science Monitor, 2003:

Until recently, the most American flags ever imported in a single year was about 2.5 million, according to government data.

Then came the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11. For all of 2001, nearly 113 million American flags, worth nearly $52 million, were imported. US manufacturers lacked the materials or machines to keep up with demand, and the wait for an American-made flag was often several months.

Since then imports have tapered off drastically. But they haven't disappeared completely, in part because foreign-made flags are considerably cheaper. At united-states-flag.com, a foreign-made, 4-by-6-foot nylon flag sells for $18.95. Its American-made counterpart is priced at $27.50. Overall, says Hickey, foreign-made flags are about 30 percent cheaper.

A FOREIGN MADE American flag...hilarious......

Oh my dear God, Gossip Girl is on....must......watch......more......TV...........

 

[LT.]

Unltd1 brings up another good point. I could not stop chuckling to myself as I read these last couple of posts. Because I am such a die hard and really do try to purchase everything that I can American. This is not always a good solution. I have found that there are times when buying American is difficult, to say the least. Take a look at electronics and you may see what I mean. Most of the big three are now made or have most of the parts made over seas. This may be why our own economy is failing. If I could make a product in another country and ship it here for less money then it would just translate into more money in my pocket. American greed! We see it all the time. Just like the American Flags that Unltd1 brought up. Look, there is no easy fix here. And times are going to get rougher before they get any easier. We just need to voice our thoughts and hope that some where underneath all the crap there is some truth. I have found some wise words while talking to Tacoma and to Phatfoto. These are a couple of fellas who have good words of wisdom provided, that you are willing to listen. Now, I may not always agree with everything that they said but, I would be ignorant if I did not at least listen to their points of view, and walked a little in their shoes. Everybody has ideas, and they are all worth listening to. If you are too stubborn to listen then you are also a fool. This is the best thread that I have ever started. Lots of ideas and other peoples values. All worth listening to.

Now, let's come to a more common ground and work on some of our liberties that will be threatened if we don't come together. Land use. Let's keep our public lands open. This is a fight that we can all rally behind!

LT.

 

[Cherokeester]

From an article in the Christian Science Monitor, 2003:

Until recently, the most American flags ever imported in a single year was about 2.5 million, according to government data.

Then came the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11. For all of 2001, nearly 113 million American flags, worth nearly $52 million, were imported. US manufacturers lacked the materials or machines to keep up with demand, and the wait for an American-made flag was often several months.

Since then imports have tapered off drastically. But they haven't disappeared completely, in part because foreign-made flags are considerably cheaper. At united-states-flag.com, a foreign-made, 4-by-6-foot nylon flag sells for $18.95. Its American-made counterpart is priced at $27.50. Overall, says Hickey, foreign-made flags are about 30 percent cheaper.

A FOREIGN MADE American flag...hilarious......

Oh my dear God, Gossip Girl is on....must......watch......more......TV...........

I understand your posts and agree with what you are saying but sadly you don't understand this next sentence. The flag is a piece of cloth that everyone assigns their own personal significance to.

 

[DOSS]

According to you maybe, but I have seen it a lot worse. You are just showing your age I suspect.

According to me maybe what? I don't care if you have seen a lot worse.. we are talking about one act of the use of the flag upside down that the person has explained why he has done so. what is so difficult to understand here?

if you don't like someone flying the flag upside down then do something to solve the reason for the distress don't just say "Don't be un-patriotic" if you want to feel good about the world we live in just ignore everything that is going on and close your eyes - or become a commy

P.S. Dropping to a personal attack usually means that it is beyond your ability to grasp the situation (Just as a side note)

 

[unltd1]

I understand your posts and agree with what you are saying but sadly you don't understand this next sentence. The flag is a piece of cloth that everyone assigns their own personal significance to.

Cherokeester - what do you mean by your post? What in either of my two posts on this thread makes you think I couldn't possibly understand the red sentence? It's a really easy sentence to read. And why are you sad about it?

"A flag espouses an idea; the idea and the tangibility of the flag are two separate realities and somewhere between them is its significance. A flag has value in that we support that its materiality is symbolic of an ideology. It is simultaneously cloth and the ideas that the cloth can impart. it is just a piece of cloth and just an idea but the reality is in the gap."

I'm pretty sure that's the gist of your sentence.

Is it sad that I might not understand your sentence, or sad that I actually do, and don't care? If everyone assigns their own personal significance to it, then there is no instance in which a person is correct or incorrect. It's just an opinion. And, as we all know, opinions are like a**holes.

To someone else, the American flag might be this: the stripes represent the original 13 colonies, the stars represent the current 50 states, and the colors red, white and blue represent NOTHING (according to the Continental Congress).

To someone with a little more touchy-feely-ness, the American flag is highly symbolic and sentimental, and brings BF Skinner-like responses, kind of like how dogs could be taught to salivate when a bell rang because the bell had be previously paired with a delicious piece of meat. These people might feel their breath taken away, tear up a little, and instinctively take their hat off and put their hand on their heart, and say that everything great about this country is represented by the flag, and they feel better about themselves when they look at it.

To me, the flag is something that was made up by guys who wanted a way to legitimize their new independence from Britain. Everyone else had a flag, so they wanted one too. End of story. I don't need a flag to remember that I was born in, and choose to continue my life residing in America. It's just not part of anything I consider meaningful in my existence. But then again, I'm Buddhist, and according to the Buddhist philosophy, Nirvana is only attainable when all feelings of desire (including the desire to love America more than any other country) are extinguished from the mind.

So, you can say what you want about the flag and how you feel about it all day long until you're blue in the face. The truth is, there is no right or wrong answer about something that can be ascribed "personal significance". That is the greatest and most depressing thing about our minds - they all work independent of one another.

I PROUDLY expect that you can COMPLETELY understand the above sentences.

 

[rondo]

My flag was made in Korea!!!

Bwaaaa ha ha haaaaa!!!! AAAAAHHHHHH ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!

It was probably made by some 6 year old with his ankle chained to a sewing machine, working 15 hours a day for a dollar a week, while his boss shows him pictures of his mother with a gun to her head......just so we can BUY our AMERICAN flag for $3.59 at Walmart, which encourages its own employees IN AMERICA to apply for MEDICAID because it won't pay any decent benefits. So that precious American flag you'll cry freedom for is actually supporting human rights violations, both IN AMERICA and in AMERICAN companies run overseas (so they don't have to pay AMERICANS the minimum wages we demand for the hours we demand in the conditions we demand as part of our RIGHTS)......

This is one of the most ignorant things i've seen someone write in a long time.

i've served in Korea. it's free today because of the US and the UN. When the North Koreans pushed US forces to the Pusan perimeter, the South Korean commanding general tried to rally his troops in a desperate defense. He said something to the effect of come on patriots, we'll defend our freedom to the death. Don't let down our American comrades, because they bleed with us!

Do or say whatever you want. But i didn't serve my country for 20 ****ING years to see my flag burned and spit on. If somebody wants to get ***** slapped, then do that right in front of me. I've served my nation in a lot of countries around this planet and nothing is better than a nation that is free.

BTW, anyone who can't put their ****ing hand over their heart of salute our flag when the national anthem plays has a perspective problem and i want nothing to do with them.

 

[GOAT]

This is one of the most ignorant things i've seen someone write in a long time.
.

surely not, you were in the military for 20 ****ING years.

 

[Tacoma]

hahah no one in the military WRITES, duhhh



don't kill me Ron!