let's talk about 4-links

[Milner]

I can post some pics on Monday, they are on the work computer.

As for length, it was the longest I could fit, I wanted the extra length to decrease the angle. Lowers converge at the tcase, level with the bottom of the frame. The upper is only a few inches under my seat!

I want to try something with the RockWare style single triangle link with a track bar. One big triangle that mnts on a large jiont just behind the tcase and mnts rigid to the axle at/near where the spring pads would be. Then a flat trackbar to keep things in line....

Marc

 

[James K]

i am not marc but i will shoot at it. make your lowers first and place them up out of harms way at the frame and then make the axle mount for your uppers and see where you can possibly place them. the longer the better pretty much. shoot for them to be pretty close to parallel to the lowers and then make the mount with more holes above and below where you put it, on the same arc. then you can just adjust it as you see fit. another thing, put them as wide on the frame as you can for stability. same thing for the lowers, but wide on the axle. also the wider they are the less steer you will have.

I know this, but am curious as to why he ended up at 48"s ie: was it a predetirmend #?

 

[N-Smooth]

I know this, but am curious as to why he ended up at 48"s ie: was it a predetirmend #?

posting at same time hehe. i am sure he just saw where it would fit and said hmmm 47" or 48"... 48 sounds better, 48" it is!

marc, i know what you are talking about. that is a cool setup, especially because it is simple and would be easy to switch from leaves because you can bolt it to your spring perch. but i am not sure about that setup because i dislike tracbars because they bind at some point. also, the one mount at the frame means it must be super beefy and be able to twist A LOT. i don't know that you could find a joint that would keep you happy without having a huge budget. get what i mean?

 

[Milner]

posting at same time hehe. i am sure he just saw where it would fit and said hmmm 47" or 48"... 48 sounds better, 48" it is!

marc, i know what you are talking about. that is a cool setup, especially because it is simple and would be easy to switch from leaves because you can bolt it to your spring perch. but i am not sure about that setup because i dislike tracbars because they bind at some point. also, the one mount at the frame means it must be super beefy and be able to twist A LOT. i don't know that you could find a joint that would keep you happy without having a huge budget. get what i mean?

Trying to reply at the same time, but it got lost in cyberspace....
Yep, just ended up right about there, so 48 it was.

I know of a couple people/places working on LARGE joints. As for a trac bar, yes it will bind, but if done well, should not bind within the range of useable travel.

After a certain point, more articulation is not better.....JMHO.....

 

[N-Smooth]

I know of a couple people/places working on LARGE joints. As for a trac bar, yes it will bind, but if done well, should not bind within the range of useable travel.

After a certain point, more articulation is not better.....JMHO.....

yeah there are some large joints out there, you might also want to see if you can make the tube twist so that the joint doesn't have to do all the work.
i was thinking about getting some threaded tube inserts and cutting my links in two towards the top and then threading a rod into both ends of the link and not putting jamb nuts on it so it will twist. i would have to make sure there was plenty thread engagement in each end and this way will also require strengthening because the link is not one piece so i would just sleeve the links and tack weld the sleeves on so that i could remove them if needed. i would like to do that so i could run bushings on both ends because other joints just don't do it for me. hickey has done this i want to find out how it works for him.

 

[Milner]

yeah there are some large joints out there, you might also want to see if you can make the tube twist so that the joint doesn't have to do all the work.
i was thinking about getting some threaded tube inserts and cutting my links in two towards the top and then threading a rod into both ends of the link and not putting jamb nuts on it so it will twist. i would have to make sure there was plenty thread engagement in each end and this way will also require strengthening because the link is not one piece so i would just sleeve the links and tack weld the sleeves on so that i could remove them if needed. i would like to do that so i could run bushings on both ends because other joints just don't do it for me. hickey has done this i want to find out how it works for him.

Tera does it, but I have never liked the ide of suspension twisting on thread. Thread stretches/wears. Then we introduce dirt/water/torque/etc to the twisting thread....Asking for problems....JMHO

I think you would be very suprised with the amount of twist you would get from the stock type large XJ/TJ/ZJ style rubber bushing. Arms not twist as much as you would think, the longer they are, the less they twist. I have 1 1/4" heims with high mis-alignment spacers, don't even use a 1/3 of the twist I have.

Forgot to add, my links are threaded DOM that is split and pinch bolted to eliminate the jams nuts. Gives me more thread penetration and more adjustment.

 

[N-Smooth]

yeah i know tera makes them. sukab modifiesd the tera arms for hickey. i am sure i could have a machine shop make me some beefy threaded rods if i wanted.
yes rubber bushings do twist quite a bit, but it destroys them fast. i would rather run poly bushings and have the links twist. i think it would be plenty strong as long as you have a lot of thread engagement on both sides of the link and it must be sleeved well.

-nate

 

[Milner]

yeah i know tera makes them. sukab modifiesd the tera arms for hickey. i am sure i could have a machine shop make me some beefy threaded rods if i wanted.
yes rubber bushings do twist quite a bit, but it destroys them fast. i would rather run poly bushings and have the links twist. i think it would be plenty strong as long as you have a lot of thread engagement on both sides of the link and it must be sleeved well.

-nate

Those aren't modified tera arms!! They are custom machined arms, from a local shop....Not the Tiawan import tera stuff....
But I still don't like it, even though B's have held up, just conceptually wrong to me....

 

[Zukimog]

Hey Guys,
Check this out: http://www.claytonoffroad.com/index.html
That is a local suspension fabricator and the suspension kicks butt I have seen that suspension work on more than one vehicle. Heavy-duty components.

The second rig is in 4WD & Sport Utility Feb 2004 pg.85.

Enjoy

 

[SAMI]

i like this thread.....very helpful and educational....

now i wanna go see someone do this...then try it on my own garbage....

keep it coming....

mind......expanding.......head.......aching...... ..... :sick:

 

[sukaB]

I remember about 5-6+ years ago when a guy named charlie and I built a four link on my YJ that no one said would work!!!!!
I re-configured it a little and it worked great than I built another one that people like Hawkins said on paper wouldnt work...
I laugh everytime I walk up somthing his flatty or rocky road can't get up...
Mine has really impressed me with the jumps, high speed desert runs, and climbing ability..she makes it up everything-pretty much, I think if something goes wrong it me not the rig...

I agree with the no system is best for everything and everyone..
I say build it and plan on learining and maybe changing it..

It's all fun and good

 

[N-Smooth]

zukimog - yeah i have heard some good things about clayton's work too, for people that want to buy their stuff i think it is a good route. but i am going to build.

brandon - is your setup threaded right now? or have you had a lot of success with that type of setup? i would really like to start getting into trying it out or at least talking about doing it. tell me about it.

 

[Zukimog]

I remember about 5-6+ years ago when a guy named charlie and I built a four link on my YJ that no one said would work!!!!!

The middle pic I posted is a YJ Again, he competes and does real well with that Clayton setup

but i am going to build.

Good luck with it I wish I was able to fabricate, far from ready with that step

 

[James K]

been pondering.....


those of you with 4links.........the distance from front to back where your links mount, is it the same top and bottom? what I mean is if you were to measure them perpendicular to the frame.

I realize some top and bottom links are different in length when measured along there length, because of seperation/trianglation.

 

[N-Smooth]

okay i made a pic of what i think would work for a threaded link. if this link doesn't work, it is also on my webshots album, which is in my sig.

any thoughts about it and why it wouldn't work?


-nate

 

[James K]

how fine of threads?

I would be worried if it is to fine a thread that they would distort and fail.

why would you need both threaded?

The ones suka does are a coarser thread. they have alot of meat at the contact area.

 

[N-Smooth]

how fine of threads?

I would be worried if it is to fine a thread that they would distort and fail.

why would you need both threaded?

The ones suka does are a coarser thread. they have alot of meat at the contact area.

oh yeah i should've explained that, it is not like i am just going to go buy some cheap crappy fine thread rod... it will be some deep, coarse thread. it doesn't necessarily have to be threaded at both ends, it could just be a rod that fits perfectly inside of the one end and threaded on the other.

i have also toyed around with the idea of just threading one end of the link and make it thread into the other end of the link, but then sleeving it would be harder.

i am interested to talk to a machine shop about how much it would cost to have some rod threaded and have tube tapped to fit it.

edit: it could actually be fine thread as long as enough of it was engaged ya know

 

[James K]

oh yeah i should've explained that, it is not like i am just going to go buy some cheap crappy fine thread rod... it will be some deep, coarse thread. it doesn't necessarily have to be threaded at both ends, it could just be a rod that fits perfectly inside of the one end and threaded on the other.

i have also toyed around with the idea of just threading one end of the link and make it thread into the other end of the link, but then sleeving it would be harder.

i am interested to talk to a machine shop about how much it would cost to have some rod threaded and have tube tapped to fit it.

edit: it could actually be fine thread as long as enough of it was engaged ya know

what you are describing is what suka sells talk to the man, if thats the route you are planning on going.

 

[sukaB]

Yah I've gotten alot of slack from people that don't think they'll hold up and all I have to say is I've ran this style of arm on my jeep for the last 7 years and I havent replaced one arm due to stripped threads or failure or rust..

I like them and the work good for me and my customers.. You do have to keep grease on them and make sure the o-ring is in good shape but like I say I love them and I beat the piss out of mine...

 

[N-Smooth]

Yah I've gotten alot of slack from people that don't think they'll hold up and all I have to say is I've ran this style of arm on my jeep for the last 7 years and I havent replaced one arm due to stripped threads or failure or rust..

I like them and the work good for me and my customers.. You do have to keep grease on them and make sure the o-ring is in good shape but like I say I love them and I beat the piss out of mine...

you run them on the ol' black wolf? how much do they cost? i am not even near needing them yet so don't get excited and start making them.. i just wanted to get an idea.

-nate