Jeep Nathan and Tanja's 99 XJ Build up

[thenag]

So for the axle side mount I decided after much laying under the jeep and figuring that I could just enlarge this hole on my axle mount for the ram mount.


Then make a nice little box in front of that hole. (The tie rod actually has more clearance than that since the driver side TRE is not tight in this picture)


something like this (notice I had to take a corner off of the axle side ram mount)


I won't cover how to drill and tap a box, that part is covered well all over the place.


And with the two fittings installed


I guess I should take some more pics, I have it installed, and kind of running. I need to try to bleed it some more, I am not getting any air coming out of it so I may need to buy a PSC pump.

Anyway it is in and I am hoping that some of you will chime in.

I have the stock 99 xj pump that I drilled the fitting to 5/32. I have a Durango box and a 1.5 ram. I have a small air to oil cooler in front of the radiator.

If I bring the engine up to about 1500 rpm it turns great. at idel it sucks worse than no power steering.

The Durango box should require more fluid than an xj box, but would it make the hydro assist suck at idle? It totally seems like the pump isn't putting out enough fluid for the ram to keep up with the steering. But I guess air can act similar.

I have a few options, or combinations of options.
1. get a PCS pump and do it right.
2. get an xj box from a yard and tap it for hydro
3. try to get a wj pump from a yard (I guess it is the best factory pump that will fit)

I cannot really run a smaller pulley due the belt routing and the york.

I cannot run a different style pump, mainly due to the York and other things.

I am going to try to bleed it some more tonight, try the Howe method and maybe try to bench bleed the ram.

I will be grateful for any words of wisdom.

Thanks

Nathan

 

[thenag]

Small update, I did a lot of things to try to bleed the PS system. I ended up plugging the ports on the box that are for the hydro lines, I basically set it up like normal steering. My steering was much worse than it was a few days ago so it seems the pump is dead. It is the original one with almost 200,000 on it.

So now I am probably going to try to track down a WJ pump and see what happens. If I still don't have enough flow I will have to get an xj box and tap that for hydro assist.

sigh...

nathan

 

[gorillaxj]

Looking good! I just got my hydraulic assist done to mine 3 days ago. I have the durango box as well. I was worried about my pump going out as it was hard to turn at lower speeds and would have to bump the throttle in parking lots to get it to turn lol. interesting how it is similar to what your describing. I went with the WJ pump, a 4.5" PSC pulley, and 1.5" ram ran off my durango box. it is VERY responsive and has plenty of flow. it feels like my tires are off the ground at a stop light with zero delay or resistance. (and would think it would be good even without the pulley)

What I am rambling about and trying to get at is to do the WJ pump. its a direct bolt in for the newer 4.0l intake manifolds. Swap the high pressure line fitting. the reservoir is the only hang up on mine. I ended up using the WJ reservoir and plugged the upper return port. which I feel "ok" about. I tried to swap reservoirs with the XJ one (i read it would) but It wouldn't seal, seamed as though the bore in the pump was to big. another thing to be warned about is the lower return is 1/2", not the factory 3/8" on a XJ. I installed a P/S filter inline and used it to step up to 1/2" inside diameter hose. I rear a lot about people having problems with air in the fluid if they used the higher return...

I wouldn't be worried about the durango box. good luck! (sorry for the novel)

 

[thenag]

What I am rambling about and trying to get at is to do the WJ pump. its a direct bolt in for the newer 4.0l intake manifolds. Swap the high pressure line fitting. the reservoir is the only hang up on mine. I ended up using the WJ reservoir and plugged the upper return port. which I feel "ok" about. I tried to swap reservoirs with the XJ one (i read it would) but It wouldn't seal, seamed as though the bore in the pump was to big. another thing to be warned about is the lower return is 1/2", not the factory 3/8" on a XJ. I installed a P/S filter inline and used it to step up to 1/2" inside diameter hose. I rear a lot about people having problems with air in the fluid if they used the higher return...

I wouldn't be worried about the durango box. good luck! (sorry for the novel)

Sweet that is what I wanted to hear.

I have heard the the xj res won't fit on the wj box, so I was planing on buying one with a res.

I guess the second return was for a hydraulic fan? sounds like a good way to push a fan... good to know team CAD is still at it...

Thanks for letting me know about the 3/8 to 1/2 in thing, a filter seems to be a good solution to that, if nothing else the filter will hold an extra oz or two of fluid which will help.

I am assuming that the part that gets swapped from the xj pump to the wj pump is the one that I drilled to 5/32, did you drill that out?

I did know that getting the hydro-assist working great would take some effort, so I hope this is the last piece...

Thanks

 

[gorillaxj]

yeah the second return was for a hydraulic fan which is why the WJ pump has a higher pressure and volume( based on what i read)

the part you swap it the threaded end the high pressure line goes into the lines are different sizes but the pump side is the same. so you swap the fitting and it bolts right in. I did not drill it out. I read some say to do so... but I came across 5-6 threads of people saying it made it worse and would cause a whine noise at higher rpm, I think it would cause a drop is pressure but boost in volume. I would recommend trying it as is, then drilling it if needed after you know how it is with it the same size.

it has been worth every minute for me!

 

[thenag]

Well I got the WJ pump installed and all is great. I am another hydro-ram-assist person that needed a new pump.

I did have to use the xj reservoir (pics later) I jammed a small piece of 5/8 ID heater hose in there and some RTV. It was a real tight fit, so long as the heater hose holds up to PS fluid it will be fine.

So my setup which seems to work great is;
xj steering wheel, shaft
durango box modded for slightly more travel, taped with 1/4 fittings for hydro
really big drop down pitman arm from Clayton
straight tie rod, hi-steer to the knuckle, Ruff Stuff TRE kit
GM TRE's all around
1.5 inch surplus center ram (8 inch travel)
WJ pump for a 2002 (Overland Edition) with an xj reservoir and xj fitting that was drilled to 5/32.
OEM size pulley (new with pump since Chrysler says to not re-use them...)

I wish I had a non-drilled fitting around I would like to try it. I will try to remember to grab one next time I am at tear a part.

I probably should put a new pressure line on since that is the only part that is original now.

My tie rod does roll when I go left to right, I figured it would. I am not sure if it is worth dinking with or not.

I'll get some pics up and more details in the next day or so...

Nathan

 

[gorillaxj]

Nice! glad it worked out. you could clock your tie rods (one forward one back) to help limit the roll. I may try to get the xj reservoir to fit, thanks for the tip

*edit*

I probably should put a new pressure line on since that is the only part that is original now.

I would do it now, I blew mine today on the snakes... I blame the pump (was the original hose)

 

[thenag]

So while I was contemplating what to do for a PS pump I did a little side project to the xj.

It is kind of hard to get in our jeep and we thought if we had a handle above the drivers side door it would help getting in without leaning on the door.

I pulled back the plastic and found this


I am not sure if it is because they make these vehicles as right hand drive or what, but Chrysler put provisions in the body for a handle on the drivers side. I used a handle I pulled from an xj in a JY, I of course didn't get any installed pics, but it looks like the other 3 just above the driver door.

alright so how to use an XJ reservoir on a wj pump, I used a small piece of heater hose that was 5/8 ID


put some RTV on it and jammed it in. (it needed more trimming than this)


it was actually a much tighter fit between the pump and res than the OEM style o-ring, which gives me hope that it will work fine. So long as the heater hose holds up to PS fluid I doubt it will ever leak. (it isn't under pressure so that helps too) Using the WJ res would be better since it is bigger but I don't even have space to add that. Also the 1/2 return on the WJ res was right where a vertical gusset is on my york bracket, so some major re-engineering would have to be done on the york bracket...

*EDIT THIS STARTED SLOWLY LEAKING IN SPRING OF 2013* (check back for another try, I may just replace this same thing every year or so, new PS fluid every year wouldn't be a horrible thing)

ta-da (and you can see why I couldn't use the bigger wj res)


ram shot


and um I think it works... (and I probably have a flat spot on the tires...)


questions?

 

[thenag]

We did get to Moab over Thanksgiving the jeep worked pretty much flawlessly. I am serious that it needs to be re-geared, not for off road but having to drop into 3rd gear and rev the engine out to go 55 mph up the hills around Price is horrible.

We also ran over a weigh station, since we stayed in a hotel we didn't have much camping gear or anything and the rig weighs 5300 lbs with a full tank, tools and gear (not counting passenger weight) It also seems to be pretty evenly weighted front axle to rear axle. (which xj's are really rear light so between my too thick gas tank skid and spare tire I shouldn't need a stinger... I guess...) That is still 1000lbs lighter than the bronco.

Nathan

 

[thenag]

Of course now it is to the point of re-doing things that were either temporary or done quickly and cheaply to get it together.

I had some things I didn't like about the air setup, not the york or anything, just everything after the york.

I ran a air line into a 2.5 gallon tank that was in the OEM spare tire spot. I wanted that cargo space back.

I also wanted an air coupler in the front and rear of the vehicle, as well as a way to tie in something like lets say an ARB.

The bigger issue was that I t'eed the air solenoid for the np231 shifter into the lowest part of the air line, so all the oil that got past my separator ended up in the air solenoid, so when I would shift the np231 it would spray oil all over the t-cases. If I liked the air tank in the rear I could have run a separate line to the air solenoid and that would have taken care of it, but I didn't like the tank location.

Here is a shot of the york setup and the old tank location;






Here is the 2.5 gallon tank next to the 2.5 liter tank. (Yes I know 2.5 liters is hardly worth it, but it should catch the oil from the york)



I mounted a coupler in the rear by the tail light, I do have to open the hatch to get to it but it is very accessible.


Here is what I did up front. Air manifold from Northern Tool (I got it like ten years ago for the bronco)
The line that goes up, comes from the compressor and goes to the air tank. Of the other two one comes from the air tank and the other goes to the rear of the xj, it tee's off to the air solenoid and the rear air coupler. There is a safety pop off too. (I have another safety pop off closer to the compressor)



Here is the air tank, much closer to the crank pulley than I would like but still plenty of clearance. I put a drain valve on the bottom with a 90 so it doesn't hang down below the sheet metal bulkhead.



Questions?

 

[thenag]

*edit*


I would do it now, I blew mine today on the snakes... I blame the pump (was the original hose)

Thanks you inspired me;

I got a new PS pressure line and put the old one in the box of spares so I have a new on installed and a functional spare...

Nathan

 

[airmanwilliams]

smoking xj!

 

[thenag]

smoking xj!

not quite, it still passes emissions just fine...

Thanks

Nathan

 

[thenag]

On the list of "things that still need to be done" was "re-gear" the reason for this was not off road, it had plenty of grunt with the np231/d300 combo. It was just that it was almost not safe on the highway. You know those big hills between Moab and Salt Lake? semi's would pass us up those hills. And since we were re-gearing it was time to upgrade the front diff. The lock-right had served us well, and other than the rig not turning well in 4WD it was fine. But this rig was not built to be "good enough" So we were going to throw an ARB or an Elocker in the front. I went back and forth on the two and what kept sticking in my mind is Carl (I Lean) saying something like the "The Elocker is great, but if you have an air source get an ARB"...

So...



We went with the air instead of the 12v.

I want to Thank Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters for supplying the ARB, some 4.88's for both axles and master rebuild kits for both axles.

Billavista's re-gear article on pirate was my main source for how to, although I had others, his was so step by step for the 14 bolt it was great.

I started by re-gearing the gm 14 bolt, I left the axle in jeep, which with the 14 bolt is great since you only have to install the carrier once. In about a day and a half I had the 4.10's swapped out for 4.88's. Did some break in miles and quickly found out that 4.88 was not low enough. (biggest Homer "DOH" I have done in a while).

So I ordered in some 5.13's...

Spent another day re-re-gearing the rear, did the initial 20 miles then let cool down, drove it some more and 5.13's are fine, I am not going any lower, the pinion just gets too small to go lower.

4.10 on left, 5.13 on right (14 bolt)

Here is how I made the crush sleeve my bitch...

You can see my 5ft cheater bar in the background...

So I am feeling pretty good about my re-gear skills, done the 14 bolt twice with not too much fan fair other than over crushing a crush sleeve and having to run to Six States for another one.

So I pulled the axle and stripped it, then took Monday off of work to set up gears and hopefully start getting the axle back together.

(seems like you have to take a picture any time you pull an axle...)

So after dinner on Monday I had a pattern that I really wasn't sure of. I searched around and an RME'er suggested that I probably had the pinion way too deep and I should start with no pinion depth shims and work up. The Monday I took off of work I had probably 9 hours just into setting up the gears and didn't have it right. I did figure out some things, like how to create drag on the diff to get a good pattern. I thought about an old spin bike, that the brake was a leather pad, so grabbed an old glove and a vice grip.

(the other side I put a spare axle shaft in and a bar through the u-joint holes to keep it stationary.

The second day I pretty much started over, no pinion depth shims, set the bearing pre-load, run a pattern, add some depth shims, add some preload shims, add or remove preload shims, run a pattern, I then got this.

(btw unless this is catastrophically bad I don't want to hear about it...)

Now with the 14 bolt when you get to that, you just double check to make sure everything is torqued down, put the cover on and fill it with oil. But the Dana axles you have to take all your setup stuff out. I only had one setup bearing race, the inner pinion race. (ARB decided that it would be much better to put the carrier shims outside of the bearings so you don't have to use setup bearings on the carrier) So beat the pinion out for like the 40th time, drive in the new race with the pinon shims in, pray to 4x4 gods that pinion depth/preload doesn't change for some reason. (which it didn't) install pinion (I didn't use a new nut yet...) I added a shim to make carrier bearing preload tighter and totally screwed up my backlash, so I had to mess with that a bit. (I probably wouldn't have messed with it if the shims were between the carrier and the bearing, but since they were so easy to get to I thought, "eh tighten that up a bit") Anyway I got backlash to .005 ran the pattern it was still the same, breathed a big sigh of relief.

Got the axle in drove into work in Front wheel drive.

Then finished doing everything else.

I didn't use the ARB switch, I have a theme with the York and the np231 air shifter


(I too laugh that I still have a working rear window wiper and defroster even though there is a 37 inch tire that obscures the back window.)

I was actually disappointed that the ARB is so quite.

So yeah I have re-geared axles 3 times. My father in law wants to do his tj so that will probably happen at some point.

I haven't tried the 140:1 low range yet so we will see what happens, also can someone explain why speedometer pinion gears are $30.00?!

Nathan

 

[thenag]

So we went to Moab over Memorial Day. Other than having a head cold and the evening winds it was great trip.

No breakage, pretty much went up everything I tried.

We found Green Day, I also did Minor Threat, both of which were the first time we had done those trails. The new gears are much more pleasant on the highway.

A few of pics;

"How was Minor Threat?"









full album here;
https://plus.google.com/photos/116333554950363953131/albums/5884894564634205233

nater

 

[thenag]

So after much in-decision I decided that I really liked the Pierce winch that was on the Bronco, so I started to see if it would fit the jeep. It is only about 20lbs more than a 12,000lb Warn or Smittybuilt. The winch on the Bronco had an 11 inch wide drum (most recovery winches are 8 inches wide) One of the great things about Pierce winches is that every single part is easily available from Pierce in Texas. I also say that Pierce Winches are commercial grade winches designed to be used everyday, even the best Warn is a consumer grade product designed for occasional use.

So the plan was to find a broken Pierce winch with an 8 inch drum so I could turn mine into an 8 inch. But all I could find was this NC for less than 1/2 of new.


One of the really cool things about Pierce winches is they mount to front of the bumper, not bolted to a sub-frame or something (like a typical winch) So some major re-design was required. I added a piece of 3/16 to the front of the bumper. here are some shots of the bumper. (many of the fitting pics are using parts of my old winch)









One of the crappy things about using the Pierce is a normal fairlead will not work so I have to make my own.





All mounted up

 

[Lifelong Jeeper]

Great build thread. Thanks.

 

[thenag]

I have been slacking with updates.

We went to Moab in October, album here;
https://plus.google.com/photos/116333554950363953131/albums/5937342687232804049?banner=pwa

before and after moab I had some issues with my speedometer. I have always had issues getting the thing rotated right so it would make contact with the gear inside the t-case. Also there was hardly any clearance (yeah nothing has any clearance on my jeep) between the VSS and the body. Also to aggravate things I use the speedometer opening to fill my (upside-down) d300.

So what I figured out was that the wires going to the vss had been crinked enough to no longer make a good connection. I could just replace the wires and vss and be good, but I thought I would hack apart my old vss (which probably still worked) and a new vss to make a new vss with an extension plug and a shorter profile making it easier to remove and install. Here are pics of that, it works fine.
new vss and part of old one with wires soldered on;


new vss cut down




I thought I would seal up the connections in some epoxy to give it a more complete look and hopefully protect against corrosion


Nathan

 

[thenag]

Recently my truck went down (2 valve Ford Triton motor finally blew a spark plug so I had to install spark plug inserts)
I had to drive the jeep for about a week and decided that I love driving the jeep... but I hate jumping into it every time.

So I came up with a fairly simple solution, I present THE ROPE STEP




Once you get in the jeep, you just pull the step up and it sits between the seat and the door frame.

Nathan

 

[thenag]

Great build thread. Thanks.

Thank you for browsing through it.

Nathan