planning noob run part 2

[cruiseroutfit]

Spring QTE Thoughts:
Trail Patrol classes. Dave J (BLM) and I are going to followup on this. I'm a Trail Patrol member, the entire program fell a bit to the wayside over the past 4-5 years but there is some talk on a land manager level of bringing it back to some degree and for those that have gone through the Tread Lightly 3 hour program, it would be a natural evolution. So if we had enough repeat and new member interested at the next event, simultaneous classes could be offered, TL Awareness course for first timers and the TP class for repeats interested in progressing their proactive efforts.


Other classes that were discussed or I've been thinking of, etc: (total brainstorming)
Communications: CB, Ham, Spot, Sat Phone, PLB, etc. We have some very talented members of the local 4x4 community that could help with this.
First Aid: I've taken a 3-6 hour Wilderness first aid class, I think it would be a neat future offering. There are quite a few options for teachers, one of which is on the the EMT's at MMP that has worked some of the MMP off-road events. Alternatively Red Cross and others
Hands On Recovery: I had a 30 minute hands on presentation prepared but obviously the weather wasn't playing well with standing around a rig. Next time I'd like to do a 100% hands on 'Recovery 103'. Depending on the number of registrants and the repeat vs. new ratio, I could do a Recovery 101/102 class for first-timers while another class is simultaneously taking place for repeats or advanced drivers. For example they could be doing an advanced driving or advanced vehicle prep class?
Backcountry Cooking: We have some talented cooks, otherwise my buddy Beau from Living Overland (back country gourmet cooking blog) may be interested in helping out?
LandUse 101: Break down the situation in a non-confrontational way, explain why there are two sides (ore more to the issues) and how they can contact xyz to spread the support. Discuss Wilderness, WSA's, LWWC's, RMP's, etc. Talk more about comment letters
Technical Driving: Not so much a coned course on the rock-crawling course but a set of cones that tests the drivers (and his/her spotters) ability to navigate through a set of cones. Maybe they back into a section and have to stop before hitting a cone then start again, clutch work, controlled speed, etc.
Permitted Trail Ride: I'll be following up with Dave & Aaron regarding some other permit events John and I are working on for MMP, at the same time we lightly discussed the option to do a trail ride in a more official capacity i.e. do the spotting/driving at RS/Con and a run out the PET for a different group. Might be more of a Summer/Fall 2012 event.
Trail Leader Training: This is something some of the large event organizers (Cruise Moab, etc) have been implementing for the trail leaders and gunners of events but I think it would work as a 'How to plan a successful club trail ride or forum trail run'.
Intro to Utah opportunities III: I like the campfire format, I'm not sure its an ideal form of class but if we could find a couple more to do over the campfire (in better weather) I dig the casual atmosphere. If we do it again I think I'll prep some handouts that cover the topics.

Size: I think it worked out well size wise, I'd suggest that we keep it around 25 vehicles (thus ~50 people) for future events with an emphasis on new attendees first.

Food: I think the food worked out great, particularly considering the fact we had to scramble the locations and subsequently had a late start. What was the bill on food? Assuming we don't have future food sponsors, is it feasible to include that into the cost and still get MMP door charge? Lunch? Scope creep?

What else?

 

[Stephen]

Spring QTE Thoughts:
Trail Patrol classes. Dave J (BLM) and I are going to followup on this. I'm a Trail Patrol member, the entire program fell a bit to the wayside over the past 4-5 years but there is some talk on a land manager level of bringing it back to some degree and for those that have gone through the Tread Lightly 3 hour program, it would be a natural evolution. So if we had enough repeat and new member interested at the next event, simultaneous classes could be offered, TL Awareness course for first timers and the TP class for repeats interested in progressing their proactive efforts.


Other classes that were discussed or I've been thinking of, etc: (total brainstorming)
Communications: CB, Ham, Spot, Sat Phone, PLB, etc. We have some very talented members of the local 4x4 community that could help with this.
First Aid: I've taken a 3-6 hour Wilderness first aid class, I think it would be a neat future offering. There are quite a few options for teachers, one of which is on the the EMT's at MMP that has worked some of the MMP off-road events. Alternatively Red Cross and others
Hands On Recovery: I had a 30 minute hands on presentation prepared but obviously the weather wasn't playing well with standing around a rig. Next time I'd like to do a 100% hands on 'Recovery 103'. Depending on the number of registrants and the repeat vs. new ratio, I could do a Recovery 101/102 class for first-timers while another class is simultaneously taking place for repeats or advanced drivers. For example they could be doing an advanced driving or advanced vehicle prep class?
Backcountry Cooking: We have some talented cooks, otherwise my buddy Beau from Living Overland (back country gourmet cooking blog) may be interested in helping out?
LandUse 101: Break down the situation in a non-confrontational way, explain why there are two sides (ore more to the issues) and how they can contact xyz to spread the support. Discuss Wilderness, WSA's, LWWC's, RMP's, etc. Talk more about comment letters
Technical Driving: Not so much a coned course on the rock-crawling course but a set of cones that tests the drivers (and his/her spotters) ability to navigate through a set of cones. Maybe they back into a section and have to stop before hitting a cone then start again, clutch work, controlled speed, etc.
Permitted Trail Ride: I'll be following up with Dave & Aaron regarding some other permit events John and I are working on for MMP, at the same time we lightly discussed the option to do a trail ride in a more official capacity i.e. do the spotting/driving at RS/Con and a run out the PET for a different group. Might be more of a Summer/Fall 2012 event.
Trail Leader Training: This is something some of the large event organizers (Cruise Moab, etc) have been implementing for the trail leaders and gunners of events but I think it would work as a 'How to plan a successful club trail ride or forum trail run'.
Intro to Utah opportunities III: I like the campfire format, I'm not sure its an ideal form of class but if we could find a couple more to do over the campfire (in better weather) I dig the casual atmosphere. If we do it again I think I'll prep some handouts that cover the topics.

All great ideas.

I think the TP class would be good, but if we are trying to focus on getting new people out there, maybe focus on the TL training and then set up a follow up TP class for a later date? Maybe have registration for it at the end of the TL class?

I think a communications class would be a big hit. A lot of people don't know where to start, differences between equipment and basic etiquette.

Recovery is always popular and hands on would be great.

I'd be happy to take on a cooking class. I know breakfast this time didn't show off my skills too much, but I'm a damn good cook (not to brag). And I've started fiddling more with camp cooking over the past few months. What works, what doesn't. How to plan, pack, ect. I'd be happy to play Alton Brown for a bit.

A lot of people chatted with me after the History class this time and expressed how they liked it and wanted to know more. I was thinking about breaking it in two and covering the subject more in depth. Either do a History 1010 at one event, then 2010 the next one, or 1010 Friday night and 2010 Saturday. Thoughts on that?

I think the trail ride would be GREAT. Either RS, PET, or TCRR, or all three! We could do RS for the people who want to do more technical stuff, PET for the people who want to get out and see stuff, and then do a PET/TCRR two day event into Sunday for those that want more (people who just want to do the PET can bail at Wendover, and those that want to do the TCRR too continue on to camp at Lucin?).

Size: I think it worked out well size wise, I'd suggest that we keep it around 25 vehicles (thus ~50 people) for future events with an emphasis on new attendees first.

I think 50 is about as many as we can logically handle at this point.

Food: I think the food worked out great, particularly considering the fact we had to scramble the locations and subsequently had a late start. What was the bill on food? Assuming we don't have future food sponsors, is it feasible to include that into the cost and still get MMP door charge? Lunch? Scope creep?

We still have a bag and a half of pancake mix. Three and a half jugs of syrup left, too. All that should hold for awhile. We used five packages of bacon, about 50 eggs, half a gallon of milk and three and a half gallons of OJ. We've got enough plates, utensils and cups to last us at least one more event. All and all we spent $147.87. So we still have plenty of money left from the amount that Teraflex donated to cover the next few events. Now that we've done it once I think we can plan for it better next time and make it flow even better.

I think we leave lunch to participants.

 

[SAMI]

I'd like the idea of TL training going simultaneously with a TP class for returnees. I think a cooking class could be good, as long as it focussed on how to make cooking outdoor simple and not frustrating; I think a lot of people are overwhelmed by camp cooking.

We have $250 left from Teraflex for future events. I think lunches would be a snap if another vendor sponsor wanted to jump on. I know AllJeep.com would be more than happy to grill up some dogs etc. Also, Kurt, I think that food could be covered by registration fees if there was an additional $3-5.

 

[pELYgroso]

Alljeep would be more than happy to take care of some hot dogs for lunch! I wish I could have made it this weekend! It sounds like people had a great time and learned a lot, despite the cruddy weather. Props to all who were a part of putting this on and making it happen! It really excites me to see how many newer RME'ers (with less than 50 posts under their belt) I see posting up in the trip report for this!

 

[jackjoh]

I would like to be a part of any of your land use classes. I think it is something that could be broken down into sections like Kurt mentioned. Like Contacts, Wilderness, WSA's, letter writing does and don'ts, etc.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I would like to be a part of any of your land use classes. I think it is something that could be broken down into sections like Kurt mentioned. Like Contacts, Wilderness, WSA's, letter writing does and don'ts, etc.

Jack, maybe this is a class you and I could tag team on. I've spent a considerable amount of time on the research of Wilderness, the 1970 inventory, the 1999 Utah inventory, the different usergroup proposals, RMPS's, I think that paired with your knowledge, your historical background and of course your jokes would make for a fun and informative class. I don't want it to be a platform to convince users as to a single viewpoint on the issue rather give them the tools to help decide for themselves.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Great ideas here. I wonder how many return people we'll get vs noobs. I think a basic tread lightly course (like the one Tacoma taught last time) should be a staple for every event. I like the idea of an advanced course for those who have already been through the overview. Regardless, I think the key to our successful courses comes from knowledgeable instructors who aren't afraid to go beyond the basics. I think of Kurt's load capacity for winching, Davy's class on staying warm and preventing heat loss, and Stephen's rehearsed history lesson (although I can't handle much more than an hour of any type of history), etc. Anything that went beyond common sense really gave the event a professional feel.


I personally think we should assume that half our audience consists of noobies to the sport, and we don't want to overwhelm them with too much info.


Spring 2012 event:
Here's what I was thinking about for the spring class: classes along the PET, every 20 miles or so.

Meet at the 5 MP ATV staging area. Then we have stations about 15 min apart on the PET. We learn about preparation at the staging area, then we drive to vernon to have a hands-on recovery class, then we drive to simpson springs for the night for Kurt's fireside chat. Then we loop back around the next day to dugway for a class there, then head out to MMP or 5MP to finish off on the rock crawling driving/spotting part.


Other thoughts:

Opportunities in Utah
I love the format of Kurt's Intro to Opportunities in Utah class. I wonder if you could print out an outline with sections where people could take notes about the books you mentioned, or at least hand out a list of your top 30 books that you use. I'd love to have two or three quick 5 min trip reports to kick that one off, so people could get excited about the pictures and sights of those trips. Maybe at the end we could plan a trip together and go through all the steps (pick a route, check legality, plan equipment/logistics, etc). Then we could do the trip report at the next training day.


Raffle
I know there are more vendors out there who would be interested in participating in the raffle. It was cool to see almost everyone walk away with a prize that was valued at over $20. I'd love to see even more vendors with even more prizes. I think it'd be cool for vendors to set up a table or tent and hand out flyers or demo products there. Obviously we don't want it getting crazy big, and with only 50 attendees it wouldn't be worth their time to bring a huge trailer out, but having them there would give the noobs some ideas of who to contact when they need parts.


Driving
I think one huge contributing factor to the success of this last one was the amount of time spent driving on the course. Even Jason, who's been wheeling plenty of times in much bigger rigs on much bigger obstacles had a blast. I think everyone had the chance to push their rig as far as they felt comfortable.


First Aid
I LOVE the idea of a first-aid class. Maybe we could get CPR certified (if feasible). I like the idea of having EMTs come teach us.


Hands-on Recovery
There's no doubt a hands-on aspect of recovery would be the icing on the cake. It's already everyone's favorite class. If we could get some vehicles stuck, teach principles, recover the vehicles, and then debrief on what went well and what could be improved, that'd be amazing.


I'm glad to have so much support from so many volunteers and attendees. These events prove to keep getting better and better. I wouldn't mind setting up an online survey or poll to see what classes people are interested in in the future, or sending out an evaluation after each event to see what we can improve on.


Tread Lightly
It was awesome to have Dave and his friend from the BLM. His training was great. However, I preferred the content of Tacoma's class from the 1st event. I guess I was expecting more detail in Dave's class. I like how Tacoma related everything to 4x4's and the common examples we have when we don't tread lightly. And there's no way Dave could compete with that since Tacoma's been doing that for so long. I guess I wanted a bit more meat and detail this time around. I think I was expecting the FULL 4-hour course and that might be why I thought this way. I hope nobody takes this the wrong way. Dave did a GREAT job, and it was a great message. I just thought Tacoma was able to add in more 4x4-specific examples and help us realize the stupid things we do that keep us from treading lightly. I definitely want to keep Dave and the BLM involved though, that's a HUGE plus. I'm really interested in becoming a tread trainer (and maybe even master trainer one day) and I'd be happy to teach this down the road. I've put in the request to be a tread trainer twice, but I haven't heard back.


All in all, the things that are going to keep people coming back are:
- a warm, fun, friendly attitude at the event
- experienced instructors with great training
- driving and hands-on experience
- a chance to meet new people and build relationships

 

[sixstringsteve]

and I wish we had a better place to plan this event without it having to be on a thread where the whole world can see it. It'd be nice if we had a quarterly training day section of the forum, but that might be asking too much.

 

[thefirstzukman]

and I wish we had a better place to plan this event without it having to be on a thread where the whole world can see it. It'd be nice if we had a quarterly training day section of the forum, but that might be asking too much.

I was thinking the same thing.

I really think this training was better than last time and we had more participation than last time for sure. I like the idea of taking the training on the trail for sure, I may actually have to sleep in a tent then.

I had fun, can't wait for the next one.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

and I wish we had a better place to plan this event without it having to be on a thread where the whole world can see it. It'd be nice if we had a quarterly training day section of the forum, but that might be asking too much.

In the works.

The PET training class could work, but with any appreciable size is a definite we would need to network with the BLM on a permit. As I mentioned this is something the MMP (more specifically John and I) are already working with the BLM on. We have identified, mapped and scouted several routes leading to and from the MMP including a fun PET run that stops at some other neat spots along the way. It may very well work out to be a perfect route for these classes as our product is nearly identical to these quarterly runs albeit on a commercial level with a bit different market obviously. The permit could be two birds with one stone.

With respect to TL, I think Dave did a fabulous job, he covered the TL Awareness course exactly as TL asks. That isn't to say you can't sway a bit on the course similar to Tacoma's approach but I think for a true intro to 4x4 class in which many of our attendees were not only new to 4x4's but completely new to any means of land use, it was spot on target. I don't think we need to do a 3 hour TL class at every event, just depends on what kind of audience future events attract. Maybe every other would be a good foundation to start with. While it may be the least 'skill based' class I think its honestly the most important and hardest to convey to new OHV users. We had just a couple of repeats this go around, it will be interesting to see what #3 does in terms of newbies versus repeats and experienced folks.

 

[sixstringsteve]

agreed, I think 1 hour of TL is plenty for the noobs. I'm excited to see what you and John come up with.

 

[zukijames]

agreed, I think 1 hour of TL is plenty for the noobs. I'm excited to see what you and John come up with.

You nailed it Steve! John and Kurt will do awesome looking forward to coming just for that..


I haven't been to these runs but are options and methods of helping keep public lands being taught beond just stay on trail.

Like join u4 and USA-all, blue rubion, passing info on to friends, letting people on the trail know why it's important to stay on trails ect?

I think the Suwa land grab is going to get alot worse and we breed everyone we can fighting for
Us

 

[zukijames]

Ignore that I just read the land use 101 description good job guys thanks for doing this

 

[jackjoh]

Kurt, I like the idea of team teaching and I think we need to add a section on maps and mapping like what is being done down in Cedar City. I hope to have the old U4 government contact list, you know the one you started, up to date by then and make a pitch about it also.

 

[Kevin B.]

I think the Suwa land grab is going to get alot worse and we breed everyone we can fighting for
Us

Wait, what? I thought these were 4wd classes!

 

[jackjoh]

In reference to having a planning only sight I think it is a good idea. If nothing else we could use email. My reasoning is that it would curtail superfluous remarks and would be more of a new happening to attendees.

 

[mesha]

I wouldn't mind teaching a trail side repair course. Pull off the road and show how to change a u-joint. Hook up the readywelder and lay down a bead or 2. How to repair a flat in a tire and or re-seat a bead?

I am working on getting an EMT there. Dates will make that easier for me.

I will try not to be such a nerd this time.

 

[jackjoh]

After looking at and reading Jason's report I think it would be a good idea to have these sessions on DVD for distribution to clubs. This is the type of training that U4WDA wants to make a part of their education program and would support with professional help and money through grants as soon as our 501c3 is finalized this year.

 

[Stephen]

I will try not to be such a nerd this time.

Don't do that! It makes me feel less alone...

 

[sixstringsteve]

I've been thinking about making a regular video podcast. I've been doing it in my BMX community, and it has been a hit. I think the 4x4 community could use the same thing. It could cover different topics each week: introduce a vendor, teach about land use, teach about CB's, teach about land use, interviews, teach about cold winter camping, etc. I simply don't have the bandwidth to take this on, but if we had a group of 3 or 4 people who would volunteer to be on the RME podcast team, they could get the ball rolling.