question..........

[Catherine]

... teachers in Utah don't make $38k, nor do they only work six hours a day. Where did you get that? My friend is an elementary school teacher, he makes around $23k and works from seven in the morning until four or five in the afternoon, with a 45 minute lunch. What's that, ~9 hours a day?

Thank You, although that probably contradicts what the bureau of labor quotes. Here is a link to the alpine school district in utah... this is the gross pay.

www.alpine.k12.ut.us/forms/hr/salary schedule.pdf

Deductions would include: benefits, union dues, retirement...to name a few.

After this thread I started thinking why do people become teachers? Then i realized it is because of the joy it brings when your students who become so knowledgable and wealthy, making over $55/hr, come back and say that you get paid too much.

James good job on the class switch. The numbers of the class will have little to do with it. Remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I wish I had more parents like you that are so involved with their child's education.

 

[Milner]

James .... I wish I had more parents like you that are so involved with their child's education.

I wish there were more parents at least involved in their childrens life, like you are....

 

[James K]

James good job on the class switch. The numbers of the class will have little to do with it. Remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I wish I had more parents like you that are so involved with their child's education.

the switch hasn't happened yet, but we are trying.

and thank you.

 

[James K]

I wish there were more parents at least involved in their childrens life, like you are....

thanks.

I do to.

 

[way2nosty]

Thank You, although that probably contradicts what the bureau of labor quotes. Here is a link to the alpine school district in utah... this is the gross pay.

www.alpine.k12.ut.us/forms/hr/salary schedule.pdf

Deductions would include: benefits, union dues, retirement...to name a few.

After this thread I started thinking why do people become teachers? Then i realized it is because of the joy it brings when your students who become so knowledgable and wealthy, making over $55/hr, come back and say that you get paid too much.

James good job on the class switch. The numbers of the class will have little to do with it. Remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I wish I had more parents like you that are so involved with their child's education.

You realize that your chart only re-inforces my point right? and I'm including benefits union Dues, retirement etc. PLUS you also need to include the portion that the state pays for retirement and 401k AND health benfits etc. I'm sure it is more then 34.

and I never said that I get paid too much. The question was why ? I answered it honestly. The type of programming I do is rather specialized specific to extremely high end electronics. SIEMENS stronberg and Nortel DMS Metaswitchs, Cisco and Juniper routers,ATM switches. You can't pull any Joe off the street and have them playing with a 30 Million dollar piece of equipment, and the kind of experience necessary to work with those equipment doesn't come cheap. I don't disregard the value of teachers in society, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing if it hadn't been for ONE HS teacher, who took me aside and said ---- look you could do this... I'm just saying that the comparison is not fair and the union mentalitly that reinforces it is not right, and it's a defensible position.

 

[James K]

You realize that your chart only re-inforces my point right? and I'm including benefits union Dues, retirement etc. PLUS you also need to include the portion that the state pays for retirement and 401k AND health benfits etc. I'm sure it is more then 34.

and I never said that I get paid too much. The question was why ? I answered it honestly. The type of programming I do is rather specialized specific to extremely high end electronics. SIEMENS stronberg and Nortel DMS Metaswitchs, Cisco and Juniper routers,ATM switches. You can't pull any Joe off the street and have them playing with a 30 Million dollar piece of equipment, and the kind of experience necessary to work with those equipment doesn't come cheap. I don't disregard the value of teachers in society, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing if it hadn't been for ONE HS teacher, who took me aside and said ---- look you could do this... I'm just saying that the comparison is not fair and the union mentalitly that reinforces it is not right, and it's a defensible position.

You want to argue unions?

Then start your own thread and get the fawk out of mine.

 

[Ohms]

Holy thread hijack batman.....

 

[N-Smooth]

You want to argue unions?

Then start your own thread and get the fawk out of mine.

 

[BBowski82]

...............I am a little aggrevated.

My 5th grader has 2 six page reports due Dec, 22.

One is a auto biography, about his birthday's, which he has had 11 of including the one today.

It has to have a cover page, a table of contents in the form of a time line, plus the six pages about his birthdays. All typed in no bigger than a 14 font, top and bottom margin of 6 spaces and 1" margins on the sides.


The other is on the orginal 13 colonies, which he has already had to build a house for that reprsents where a shipwright would live. It has to be done in powerpoint, which he can only use when he is at school. For which they only see about 15-20 minutes of computer time a day, because they have 8 computers and 30+ kids. Oh yeah and he has to have a costume, that represents a shipwright, to play out some skit about the colonies on top of all the other crap.

This is in addition to all the normal class work they are expected to get done on a daily basis.

This is driving me and my wife insane. How in the hell do you expect a 5th grader to do all this and still have a life?

At this point my wife and I feel we are back in school.

I just think this is a bit of a stretch and quite a bit of work for a 5th grader.

not to mention who gives a crap about what happen with the colonies. Focus more on teaching them how to do the report then what its about.

Oh yeah by the way my daughter had this same teacher when she was in the 3rd grade (7years ago) and all this woman want to focus on is history. My daughter still to this day dislikes this woman, for which we don't let her talk about the teacher in front of my son as to not discourage him.



and yes, I really dislike this woman.


rant off:

I can't believe I'm the only one that see's your post like this....but what are you, some kind of slack-jaw redneck??? I can’t believe you even have the audacity to complain about this teacher challenging your son let alone want to transfer him out of the class?

Come to think of it, it’s no wonder teacher’s don’t strive to teach to their fullest---when they do parents complain it’s puts too much of a burden on their child and their schedule?? WTF?

 

[BBowski82]

This is driving me and my wife insane. How in the hell do you expect a 5th grader to do all this and still have a life?

I forgot, what kind of "LIFE" does a 5th grader have? The way I see it, the majority of his "life" be revolving around school??

 

[ALF]

I can't believe I'm the only one that see's your post like this....but what are you, some kind of slack-jaw redneck??? I can’t believe you even have the audacity to complain about this teacher challenging your son let alone want to transfer him out of the class?

Come to think of it, it’s no wonder teacher’s don’t strive to teach to their fullest---when they do parents complain it’s puts too much of a burden on their child and their schedule?? WTF?

I'm guessing you don't have kids because it seems to me you completly missed the point

 

[Bone Down]

Well I have a 5th grader now and it seems with the 40mins of reading each day/night (20/20 split), homework, then chores there is not much day left to play.
Since school has started he has had 3 class projects and 2 reports that have been completed.

Yah when all is said and done there is little day left to go horse off, but that is what vacation time is for, rather it be year round school or summer vacation.

I have an 8th grader 3.6 avg atm (male) extra curricular: tech squad, tackle football, soon to be Eagle Scout.
I have a 7th grader 4.0 avg atm (female) extra curricular: dance, cheerleading, babysitting.
I have a 5th grader 4.0 avg atm (male) extra curricular: soccer, basketball, scouts.

I tell them often the only job they have is to succeed in school, mom and I will take care of the rest. Until this stance was taken all my kids did was school and video games.
You could not keep me in the house when I was that age, kids these days are wasting away trying to be number one on a video game.

I take them on many quad trips for weekends, camping, long trips to the coast to ride quads on the beaches, soon to include them in the jeeping adventures. This only happens if they are trying their best and succeeding in class, grades count or stay home; get any F’s and I am selling your quad no exceptions (dang near sold one last year, that changed in 4 weeks F’s were A’s).

My kids all have done PPT in 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th grade so far.
Buck up help the kid out if you can and push him to excel in the class.

Each parent has their own way of going about things, and there have been many a teacher that my kids have had that I would just like to thump; but instead of making a stink out of it the wife and I just did what we could to push the kids not to give up and to get the work done.

All in all I have yet to hear any thing negative about my kids from any teacher, parent, and/or coach (ok the youngest gets his work done and starts chatting, that has since stopped as of 8 weeks ago, as it is not fair to the others in the class and not his place to interrupt their time to learn this has been made very clear by me).

This is just my tactics and experience.

 

[James K]

I can't believe I'm the only one that see's your post like this....but what are you, some kind of slack-jaw redneck??? I can’t believe you even have the audacity to complain about this teacher challenging your son let alone want to transfer him out of the class?

Come to think of it, it’s no wonder teacher’s don’t strive to teach to their fullest---when they do parents complain it’s puts too much of a burden on their child and their schedule?? WTF?

so your telling me I'm the problem? should I let my child fail?

He recieves very little instruction in the basic fundemental skills it takes to do the tasks he is given, is that right? This has been confirmed by my meeting with the pricipal and parents I have talked with, whose children have had her as a teacher. My wife and I agreed for him to be in her class at the begining of the year even with the previuos experience we had with her when our daughter had her. We were hoping things had changed with the way class was conducted by her.

The method that she uses doesn't work on all kids.

I check his work when he's done, mainly math. My wife checks the other language and such (not my strong point).


and I have no issue with my children being challanged, but when it beats them done and they believe they are failing even when they are trying. I have to believe I need to step in.

I want my children to grow up and do better then me and not earn there living with their backs, but instead with the brains.

 

[Amy]

I can't believe I'm the only one that see's your post like this....but what are you, some kind of slack-jaw redneck???

That's mean man. I am sure that there is a better way to refer to someone that you dont know.

 

[James K]

Each parent has their own way of going about things, and there have been many a teacher that my kids have had that I would just like to thump; but instead of making a stink out of it the wife and I just did what we could to push the kids not to give up and to get the work done..

at some point doesn't something have to be done if it isn't getting better?

All in all I have yet to hear any thing negative about my kids from any teacher, parent, and/or coach (ok the youngest gets his work done and starts chatting, that has since stopped as of 8 weeks ago, as it is not fair to the others in the class and not his place to interrupt their time to learn this has been made very clear by me).

This is just my tactics and experience.

we had a note sent home telling us as parents (the whole class mind you) to tell our children to be quiet in class. How am I suppose to make him be quiet in class? To me this seems to be a lack of control and structure on the teachers part. If I am wrong then, please explain why?

 

[N-Smooth]

I can't believe I'm the only one that see's your post like this....but what are you, some kind of slack-jaw redneck??? I can’t believe you even have the audacity to complain about this teacher challenging your son let alone want to transfer him out of the class?

Come to think of it, it’s no wonder teacher’s don’t strive to teach to their fullest---when they do parents complain it’s puts too much of a burden on their child and their schedule?? WTF?

if he is a "slack-jaw redneck" what does that make you? are you an expert teacher?
how is pointless busy work going to help a child? couldn't the time wasted on building model houses and dressing up in costumes/doing "skits" be spent on reading/writing/arithmetic??? you know, stuff you can apply to everyday life!!!
should they be required to make scale models of the alamo out of play-dough while they are at it?
some people

 

[Bone Down]

at some point doesn't something have to be done if it isn't getting better?

Possibly, but the 22nd is around the corner, and the back and forth with the administration is not helping to get the 6 page report done, 11 B days works out to just over 1/2 a page per birthday, 14 pt font and double line spacing should only take 3-4 hours to complete 5-6 at the most. I am not saying that you should stop pressing to find out what is wrong in the classroom there may be more to this issue than I know.
The teacher could be having some personal issues and they are spilling into the classroom.

we had a note sent home telling us as parents (the whole class mind you) to tell our children to be quiet in class. How am I suppose to make him be quiet in class? To me this seems to be a lack of control and structure on the teachers part. If I am wrong then, please explain why?

I recall a note similar to that coming home from a certain teacher, she sent it to the whole classrooms parents; so as not to single out any one kid, but only to bring light to the situation in the classroom.

The wife and I had a meeting with her via telephone only to find out it was not even our kid and that as stated above was a few that were causing problems for the many.

Don't get me wrong James, this whole kid and school thing is a royal pain in the anus.
But the year is half over and the other teachers might be onto different subjects, or could be on subjects that he has all ready covered, or into a whole new area that he/she might end up behind and struggle to catch up.

What the wife and I started to do was interview families in the neighborhood that had kids in advanced grades to see which teachers received the best reviews and tried our hardest to get our kids into those classes and pushed them to excel.

I am not criticizing just trying to offer some insight.
Best of luck with it and I hope it all works out for the better in the end.

Merry Christmas.

 

[britney]

Good for you James!!
I think it is very admirable when parents are involved rather than ignore.

You could take on the whole "just get the bad grades and suffer through the year" attitude like I've seen folks do. Instead you're teaching him a much better lesson but trying to fix it and paying attention to his needs.

10 parent brownie points for you!!!

 

[BBowski82]

so your telling me I'm the problem? should I let my child fail?

He recieves very little instruction in the basic fundemental skills it takes to do the tasks he is given, is that right? This has been confirmed by my meeting with the pricipal and parents I have talked with, whose children have had her as a teacher. My wife and I agreed for him to be in her class at the begining of the year even with the previuos experience we had with her when our daughter had her. We were hoping things had changed with the way class was conducted by her.

The method that she uses doesn't work on all kids.

I check his work when he's done, mainly math. My wife checks the other language and such (not my strong point).


and I have no issue with my children being challanged, but when it beats them done and they believe they are failing even when they are trying. I have to believe I need to step in.

I want my children to grow up and do better then me and not earn there living with their backs, but instead with the brains.

First and foremost, James I apologize. Barbie is right--my post was definitely misplaced--I'm sorry I started off with a personal attack. (I usually wait a few posts! J/K)

It's tough for me as my wife is a struggling second year teacher. After I graduated from college I took an engineering position with Ford that forced us to relocate to the Detroit area. She worked all year to get a position teaching and the best she position she could land was within a low income school. She encountered by a lot of parents with less than desirable attitudes regarding their childrens education. To make matters worse, I've recently left Ford and taken an engineering position with Toyota in Southern Indiana--upon getting down here she seriously considered leaving teaching because of the lack of cooperation she experienced her first year. It was heart breaking to see a teacher as passionate and talented as her even consider this.

SO, I guess it really bugs me when I hear folks complain about a teacher that forces kids to strive or claim that teachers are overpaid (not you).

As your post was obviously motivated by genuine frustration and thought, I should have given the same amount of thought in my response--as Bone Down did (which I think is excellent advice). I didn't do that, and I am sorry :-\ . By all means continue to encourage your kids; I know it must be tough.

 

[BBowski82]

if he is a "slack-jaw redneck" what does that make you? are you an expert teacher?

No, not by any means; the comment was inappropriate.

how is pointless busy work going to help a child? couldn't the time wasted on building model houses and dressing up in costumes/doing "skits" be spent on reading/writing/arithmetic??? you know, stuff you can apply to everyday life!!!
should they be required to make scale models of the alamo out of play-dough while they are at it?
some people

Honestly man, I don't think that any of this work, even if it is 'busy work' is pointless. It's these projects that will best prepare JamesK's kids for high school, college, and a successful career. The best thing a child can learn at a young age is to accept a project, break it down into manageable chunks, and complete it in a timely manner. Seriously, all the reading, writing, and arithmetic in the world doesn't mean squat without basic problem solving and time management skills.


BTW, I do also think it's important to know one's history.