Romney is out

[Bart]

Brett, Brett, Brett. I agree and disagree with you at the same time. Clinton did a lot of good for the nation, and the world. There was a time of mostly peace that was never before and prolly never will be again.

BUT, his policy on the environment, not just in Utah, but nationwide was dismal.
His restrictions and reduced funding in intelligence was the key factors in allowing 9-11 to happen.
His military ineptness was mind bogling and his lack of respect (and Hillary's) for the armed forces was unforgetable and unforgivable.

 

[Brett]

You're either young or forgetful.

Explain

 

[Brett]

Brett, Brett, Brett. I agree and disagree with you at the same time. Clinton did a lot of good for the nation, and the world. There was a time of mostly peace that was never before and prolly never will be again.

BUT, his policy on the environment, not just in Utah, but nationwide was dismal.
His restrictions and reduced funding in intelligence was the key factors in allowing 9-11 to happen.
His military ineptness was mind bogling and his lack of respect (and Hillary's) for the armed forces was unforgetable and unforgivable.

We agree to disagree

 

[Bart]

No, you're just wrong.

 

[Brett]

No, you're just wrong.

Maybe so.....

As for the military, remind what he did that was disrespectful.... I'm not finding much online, other than the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy.

 

[Tacoma]

His efforts to reduce our military to a skeleton force come to mind.

 

[AINT SKEERED]

but in all, he ran the country better than anyone had in a long time, even while getting it on with the intern.

Your either young of forgetful.

Maybe any democrat in a long time... but a few people seemed to like Reagen...

No, you're just wrong.

X2. Clinton did a lot of good things. But he did it while ignoring other pressing issues. He says himself to this day that his biggest mistake in office was not pursuing osama after the first WTC attack, and don't forget about the USS Cole after that. I personally don't care about the BJ, good for him, I care that my taxes are high and that the rest of the world was ignored through our military. Clinton's span in office looked pretty because it was so peaceful and he built a surplus. He should have been spending that money doing what we are doing now, 9/11 could and should have been prevented.

 

[RWH]

President lies to grand Jury. But it's ok because his wife is ugly and BJ's are cool.....

He enlarged federal government and killed much of my most enjoyed Freedom.

Grand Staircase Escalante showed in my mind a complete lack of respect for the views and opinions of the people who were effected the most.

Several terrorist attacks on the U.S. During his tenure and how much effective resolution or retaliation?

First attack on the Trade center, is the first one that comes to mind.

and to re-emphasize HE LIED TO A GRAND JURY. I doubt you would so easily dismiss the same course of action if played out by Bush.

 

[Brett]

President lies to grand Jury. But it's ok because his wife is ugly and BJ's are cool.....

It's sex....it doesn't need to involve the nation. There's a reason he wasn't removed from office.

He enlarged federal government and killed much of my most enjoyed Freedom.

What freedom's changed for you?

Grand Staircase Escalante showed in my mind a complete lack of respect for the views and opinions of the people who were effected the most.

I've already agreed on this that it was a bad choice on his part.

Several terrorist attacks on the U.S. During his tenure and how much effective resolution or retaliation?

First attack on the Trade center, is the first one that comes to mind.

What would you have had him do? Invade countries like Bush has done and screwed the US's image all over the world, killed thousands of our troops and basically placed us in a position of not being able to withdraw from two countries without the region destabilizing? Oh, wait......

and to re-emphasize HE LIED TO A GRAND JURY. I doubt you would so easily dismiss the same course of action if played out by Bush.

He lied about sex. Who cares? Do I care about your sex life or anyone else in the goverment? Nope. As to Bush, never once in this thread have I said anything about him until you mentioned it. If Bush had done the same thing, I'd still be saying I could care less he creamed an interns mouth.

 

[offroaddave]

Explain

Ronold Reagan!

 

[Brett]

Ronold Reagan!

What about him then?

 

[RWH]

So it's ok for the president of the United States to lie to a grand jury? I don't care if it's about taking cookies off of a desk, or if it's about something big like genocide. That's not something a president of the United States should ever do.

What Freedom did I lose... I can't go wheeling in grand staircase.. or millions of acres across the nation which are now "wilderness" due to his definition change and random designations without the consensus of the people.

I definitely would have had him go on the offensive even into other countries if needs be in order to show that if you attack the U.S. you will get it right back 1000fold. Passivity just shows that you'll just sit there because you're afraid to stand up for something because it might get you into a political situation. I don't give a hoot in hell for what other people in other countries think about the United States, and I'll certainly never give their opinions an ear to the point where they have a vote by proxy over what happens here.

I like to think that America is a nation built on principals. A president who goes against the commitments of a marriage for a little self gratification, and then does the same of his presidential commitments by lying to a Grand Jury, is not a man who I am willing to respect. Such actions go against what I believe are the founding principles of this great country.

Jefferson said something to the effect of I don't care what my neighbor believes so long as it neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket, and having Obama or Hillary in office will indeed be picking my pocket, and it just may break my leg when I have to hike where once I could Jeep.

 

[offroaddave]

What would you have had him do? Invade countries like Bush has done and screwed the US's image all over the world, killed thousands of our troops and basically placed us in a position of not being able to withdraw from two countries without the region destabilizing? Oh, wait......

Not to sound like an Imperial dog, But I don't believe most Americans care what the rest of the world thinks of us.
Plus I also believe that the worlds negitive outlook on America comes mostly from our own media.
And I'm sure you didn't intend to say Bush has killed thousands of our troops. Did you?

 

[Brett]

Not to sound like an Imperial dog, But I don't believe most Americans care what the rest of the world thinks of us.
Plus I also believe that the worlds negitive outlook on America comes mostly from our own media.
And I'm sure you didn't intend to say Bush has killed thousands of our troops. Did you?

I think that it's a problem that most American's don't care. Then they wonder why they aren't treated well in other countries. Or why other countries are pulling out their troops and no longer wanting to help the United States.

Not sure what you mean by our own media giving us a negative outlook though......clairfy for me?

And not, I didn't mean Bush himself has killed them. Iraqi's and Afganies (sp?) have. Personally, I just don't believe that we should be in either of those countries. There's more to do here at home and I think that we should concentrate on home instead of nation building.

 

[Herzog]

So it's ok for the president of the United States to lie to a grand jury? I don't care if it's about taking cookies off of a desk, or if it's about something big like genocide. That's not something a president of the United States should ever do.

I'm not a clinton fan, but are you pressing that Bill is the only president that ever lied? He just got caught... All of our presidents have lied in one form or another.

 

[Herzog]

Not to sound like an Imperial dog, But I don't believe most Americans care what the rest of the world thinks of us.

It becomes a problem when other countries start to not support us. We are not the only country that is capable of being a 'super power'.

 

[Herzog]

There's more to do here at home and I think that we should concentrate on home instead of nation building.

I don't believe every aspect of our lives should be decided by government. That's a big Democratic flaw. The more "help" we need here at home from our government will cause bigger problems elsewhere. Just look at all the help we gave the middle east.

And it's called "Globalization" and sustained warfare. Do I dare mention war profiteering as well?

 

[Coco]

Well, he had a good run. Anyone but Hillary I say.

x2!

 

[RWH]

I'm not a clinton fan, but are you pressing that Bill is the only president that ever lied? He just got caught... All of our presidents have lied in one form or another.

I was careful to make no statements classifying him singularly in lying. Just focusing on him primarily because his lies are seemingly played off as not that big of a deal and sometimes even OK. Nixon definitely comes to mind as well as many others.

 

[Brett]

So it's ok for the president of the United States to lie to a grand jury? I don't care if it's about taking cookies off of a desk, or if it's about something big like genocide. That's not something a president of the United States should ever do.

What Freedom did I lose... I can't go wheeling in grand staircase.. or millions of acres across the nation which are now "wilderness" due to his definition change and random designations without the consensus of the people.

I definitely would have had him go on the offensive even into other countries if needs be in order to show that if you attack the U.S. you will get it right back 1000fold. Passivity just shows that you'll just sit there because you're afraid to stand up for something because it might get you into a political situation. I don't give a hoot in hell for what other people in other countries think about the United States, and I'll certainly never give their opinions an ear to the point where they have a vote by proxy over what happens here.

I like to think that America is a nation built on principals. A president who goes against the commitments of a marriage for a little self gratification, and then does the same of his presidential commitments by lying to a Grand Jury, is not a man who I am willing to respect. Such actions go against what I believe are the founding principles of this great country.

Jefferson said something to the effect of I don't care what my neighbor believes so long as it neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket, and having Obama or Hillary in office will indeed be picking my pocket, and it just may break my leg when I have to hike where once I could Jeep.

Alright, I don't agree with lying, period. To defend my position though, I don't believe that what he did should have ever been taken to the level it was. There was no reason to try to impeach him, no reason to have a Grand Jury involved. If anything, send Bill and Hillary to marriage counseling. That's what happens with the rest of the world.

The only thing that I'll say about the Grand Staircase is that it's done, we can't change it. There are, however, still roads in the area that you can drive. Hell, even 4WD and Sport Utility has featured some of the remaining trails there.

Based off of the retaliation we've done since 9/11, do you still think that it's a good idea to respond 1000 fold? I don't.

And world image does mean a lot and you not caring show's the typical American superiority attitude. Take it like this. You've your group of friends and you suddenly decide that you don't care what they think and start doing whatever you want in the world. Well, suddenly you don't have any friends. What happens if you need aid or help or anything at all from them? Are they going to want to help? Now just change friends to other countries.

American was built on ideas, ideas that have kept this country alive. If you really think that politicians are pure and innocent, you've much to learn. I wouldn't trust any of them as far as I could throw them.