Snakes 10/2

[waynehartwig]

Join the U4WDA!

Did it...now where's my sticker

"The Utah 4 Wheel Drive Assocation holds it's meetings on the last Thursday of every month at 6:30pm at the Larry H. Miller Chrysler Jeep store 10905 South AutoDrive Mall in Sandy in the upstairs meeting room. Please feel free to come."

I work across the street and will stop in.


"I truly hope you don't think any of this is aimed at you, you have just helped us realize the problem that exists and hopefully we can work to improve it."

No hurt feelings here. I did get a little frustrated at first but, there are a lot of valid points being made. You (we) have it so good in UT. Back home there was only place in San Antonio for the average joe to legally wheel and it was a former city dump that up until a few years ago was used by gang members to dispose of bodies. We cleaned it up and ran off the thugs and we still had to organize to keep it open. I am not afraid of getting dirty and will help on cleanup days but, I am afraid that 5MP is a long way out there and alot goes on that is out of our control. Information is power and there is a lack of real trail info on the NET. In Texas, I had to pay to join several clubs to get into private ranches and trail runs but the quality of people was light years ahead of the open runs. Thanks for the comps and PM the next time you guys head out.

flamesuit off -Marcus

Yeah, sorry Goat! lol I didn't mean to start this with my comment! It's a hot topic for sure!!!!
I'm putting a long arm kit on a guys rig Saturday morning and afterwards we are hoping to go out to RS and CON to test it. You're more than welcome to come along!!!

 

[waynehartwig]

OH! No I don't expect a new-be to leave the trail to check out the website before traveling the trail, but I do expect them to stay on the trail and be informed on where that is and what it entails! Ignorance is not an excuse, and blatent destruction is criminal!

All someone has to do is post up that they are new to the area and want someone to show them RS and CON and I bet there will be at least one person that will take them out.

And yes, being part of a club IS very important. Like cruiser said, strength in numbers. But by being part of a club, you can become educated on the trails!!!!

 

[scoutabout]

The disrespectful nature of some of our fellow wheelers is no reason to stop trying.

 

[scoutabout]

And by the way Marcus, thanks for joining! I'm impressed that you got your Jeep up the end of constrictor and wayne's world. Texas folk know how to get it done.

 

[Rusted]

What makes you think they will respect it when they won't respect the signs that are already there? It's real obvious running over the top of a tree is going off the trail and people do it.

I think that the outright abusers will abuse no matter what we do. But look at Goats case, he is a responsible guy, just did not know that he was off the trail. In his shoes I probably would have done the same thing. He was not the first guy to take the wrong path, and will not be the last guy to try it. I think that Houndoc's comment about "ON THE TRAIL information" pretty much sumed up my idea. Something needs to be out there to mark the trail in some way. The paint on the rocks marking "no route" in the moab area seem to do well (exept for the abusers and I am happy to see them get tickets for it), but I don't think that paint will work well with the 5mp dirt and loose rocks. Some fence posts or something similar to help define the go and no go areas would be easy. I would rather see that out there than more trees ripped up.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I was pondering that same question today...

Call me if you really want to hear the whole epilogue.... but in short:

Most of constrictor was in place ALONG time ago. In fact if you look closely along the trail, one will notice an old mine on the hillside above the trail... this is a clear RS2477 candidate. But that is neither here nor there because a good majority of the trail (along with RS) is not under the jurisdiction of the BLM or the FS (the FS doesn't have anything in the remote area).

There are areas in the 5MP recreation area that are still open to cross-country travel, but most is open to existing trails only...

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Found a quote by me back on 8/13/03, when the CON as we know it was just a few months old (I remember it like it was yesterday, we named all the obstacles and ran the trail... )

Anyways here is the quote:

...
I try not to blame anyone, I try to keep a level head when discussing these trails... but I do feel like they belong to me (as with any other trail I love, Earl-Eagle, AF, etc... its not a literal thing, metophorically of course), So when you go out there for the day, what a dissapointment to see it full of trash, oil, and the trail getting wider and wider. Next thing you know bypasses start popping up... I am waiting for the day to come that someone claws up the hillside and bypasses the Eagles Nest... sad but that day will probably come without the help of others.

 

[James K]

Found a quote by me back on 8/13/03, when the CON as we know it was just a few months old (I remember it like it was yesterday, we named all the obstacles and ran the trail... )

Anyways here is the quote:

I only wish your prediction had been wrong :sick:

 

[Shawn]

I think you all should be thankful that this trail was introduced to this board. It is posts like this that come up at least once a month that in the future will stop people from sharing such killer trails with the rest of you/me.

 

[Shawn]

I would also like to applaud Kurt for sticking to his game. There have been many heated battles over this trail in the past and many members have been very defensive and have had many arguments including myself. Kurt has held his ground and explained the pros and cons of what is right and what is wrong. He remains even tempered and hardly ever lets his emotions get in the way. Kurt in one of the pioneers of this trail and spent many hours helping tune it for our use. Unless you know the history of the trail you should research or ask before thinking you are the shet.

Thank you,

Drive through.

 

[waynehartwig]

I think that the outright abusers will abuse no matter what we do. But look at Goats case, he is a responsible guy, just did not know that he was off the trail. In his shoes I probably would have done the same thing. He was not the first guy to take the wrong path, and will not be the last guy to try it. I think that Houndoc's comment about "ON THE TRAIL information" pretty much sumed up my idea. Something needs to be out there to mark the trail in some way. The paint on the rocks marking "no route" in the moab area seem to do well (exept for the abusers and I am happy to see them get tickets for it), but I don't think that paint will work well with the 5mp dirt and loose rocks. Some fence posts or something similar to help define the go and no go areas would be easy. I would rather see that out there than more trees ripped up.

And that's the whole reason he didn't get flamed! That's what I mean, there is a difference between just plain not knowing and blatently destroying the country side. How many here take the illegal bypass at the very first part of constrictor, by the sign? You know, drop down in the ditch and come up on the other side. I for one did everytime I drove the trail because I thought I was being responsible and staying out of the stream bed. Turns out that is an illegal bypass and the trail goes through the rocky stream bed! Heck, I'd rather take the difficult, very off camber line!

 

[waynehartwig]

Call me if you really want to hear the whole epilogue.... but in short:

Most of constrictor was in place ALONG time ago. In fact if you look closely along the trail, one will notice an old mine on the hillside above the trail... this is a clear RS2477 candidate. But that is neither here nor there because a good majority of the trail (along with RS) is not under the jurisdiction of the BLM or the FS (the FS doesn't have anything in the remote area).

There are areas in the 5MP recreation area that are still open to cross-country travel, but most is open to existing trails only...

I was told from someone, sometime... Don't remember, and it's not important. That the north side of the highway was open to cross country travel, while the south side was not. Not true?

I can't imagine the old minors taking their donkey's up that trail!

 

[waynehartwig]

I think you all should be thankful that this trail was introduced to this board. It is posts like this that come up at least once a month that in the future will stop people from sharing such killer trails with the rest of you/me.

That's true... Sadly enough! We should be able to share all of the trails with everyone. But we can't, because the word will get out and get the trail closed. There's lots of this going on in Death Valley. I love that place and I would LOVE to travel the trails. But nobody goes when I go, and nobody will tell me where they are

 

[waynehartwig]

I would also like to applaud Kurt for sticking to his game. There have been many heated battles over this trail in the past and many members have been very defensive and have had many arguments including myself. Kurt has held his ground and explained the pros and cons of what is right and what is wrong. He remains even tempered and hardly ever lets his emotions get in the way. Kurt in one of the pioneers of this trail and spent many hours helping tune it for our use. Unless you know the history of the trail you should research or ask before thinking you are the shet.

Thank you,

Drive through.

That's why he's dah man!

 

[scoutabout]

I guess I don't know the history of this trail (although I'd like to hear about it), but I do know what's happening to it right now. It's being abused like so many other areas. New bypasses are being cut, the trail is widening, and the area is being trashed.

I'm sure we can come up with a policy or procedure that keeps the trails cleaner and unmodified, so others can share their secret trails with us.

 

[Houndoc]

My earlier point is not that clubs are not a good idea or have not accomplished a lot of good. Sorry if it came out wrong.

My point is that many, if not most, of the people causing the damage are not members. Thus newsletters etc are not going to reach those people.

Thus the importance of on-the-trail info. I think we would all agree that the easier it is to get the info at the time we want it the more likely we are to follow it.