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Stephen

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
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Never Far From Nowhere
jeeper said:
If it is decided Joe has to go, do they have to hold new voting for the democrat party?
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He's not their nominee yet, that's decided at the convention. Since he has basically run unopposed in the primaries, he's locked up enough delegates to win the nomination, but there can still be horse trading on the convention floor. And if he drops out, then it's all up in the air at the convention because the delegates are no longer pledged to support anyone.
If Biden were to drop out or be replaced, though, it'll be chaos within the DNC. They may cinch the presidency by having a younger, more vigorous candidate (Newsom) but their fragile coalition would collapse.
 
Houndoc

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
anderson750 said:
As much as the liberal media hates it right now, the supreme court came down on the letter of what our constitution says. This will protect somebody in their party in the future from Republicans doing the same thing to them. The country wins.
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I am very hard pressed to agree with that.

I fail to see how separation of powers prevents prosecution of crimes committee by those in other branches of the government (it certainly has never been used to stop prosecution of even sitting members of Congress.)

The argument that presidential immunity is needed to stop one party from prosecuting the other after a term ends seems pretty easily disproved by the fact that Trump is the first former president ever charged with a crime of any sort. And if the Constitutional separation of powers are applied, than one political party can not force the criminal conviction of another.

My biggest concern is by saying that any official duty is completely immune then a president is free to commit war crimes, carry out violence against citizens (something I would think this group would be particularly sensitive to considering the overall leanings on gun ownership and other things we see as threatened), take bribes to appoint judges, including to the Supreme Court and a lot of other things none of us wants to see.

My personal take is this ruling is the largest step we have taken in our history towards dictatorship.
 
anderson750

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
Houndoc said:
I am very hard pressed to agree with that.

I fail to see how separation of powers prevents prosecution of crimes committee by those in other branches of the government (it certainly has never been used to stop prosecution of even sitting members of Congress.)

The argument that presidential immunity is needed to stop one party from prosecuting the other after a term ends seems pretty easily disproved by the fact that Trump is the first former president ever charged with a crime of any sort. And if the Constitutional separation of powers are applied, than one political party can not force the criminal conviction of another.

My biggest concern is by saying that any official duty is completely immune then a president is free to commit war crimes, carry out violence against citizens (something I would think this group would be particularly sensitive to considering the overall leanings on gun ownership and other things we see as threatened), take bribes to appoint judges, including to the Supreme Court and a lot of other things none of us wants to see.

My personal take is this ruling is the largest step we have taken in our history towards dictatorship.
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so if trump is elected you are fine with him going after Biden and prosecuting him for not upholding the law when it comes to our border?
 
Houndoc

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
anderson750 said:
so if trump is elected you are fine with him going after Biden and prosecuting him for not upholding the law when it comes to our border?
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No, for several reasons.

First and foremost, separation of power between Executive and Judicial Branches should keep that from happening.

Second, it is a hard sell to say that failure to fully implement or enforce a law is a crime. If it where there would be no warnings by police instead of tickets.

We could find examples from every president of laws or policies not fully enforced (Trump cutting staff to limit audits that enforce tax laws as one recent case.)

Third, such a case has never been prosecuted, a doubtful it would ever be.
 
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anderson750

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
Houndoc said:
No, for several reasons.

First and foremost, separation of power between Executive and Judicial Branches should keep that from happening.

Second, it is a hard sell to say that failure to fully a law is a crime. If it where there would be no warnings by police instead of tickets.

We could find examples from every president of laws or policies not fully enforced (Trump cutting staff to limit audits that enforce tax laws as one recent case.)

Third, such a case has never been prosecuted, a doubtful it would ever be.
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Now you are mixing personal/ business with presidential. The Supreme Court case has only to do with presidential. And to your third point, the case they are trying to push on trump with confidential records I bet could be brought against any past president.

Your comparisons don’t hold water
 
Stephen

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
Location
Never Far From Nowhere
Houndoc said:
No, for several reasons.

First and foremost, separation of power between Executive and Judicial Branches should keep that from happening.
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I mean... huh? The Judicial Branch are the courts. They try the cases that are brought by parties like the Department of Justice, which is part of the Executive Branch and controlled by the President.

So if Trump were to say take up the already on going investigations into the Biden family by the House and direct the DOJ to pursue prosecution, that's well within his remit. Kinda like how the Biden administration is pursuing Trump on the classified documents case.

Houndoc said:
Second, it is a hard sell to say that failure to fully implement or enforce a law is a crime. If it where there would be no warnings by police instead of tickets.

We could find examples from every president of laws or policies not fully enforced (Trump cutting staff to limit audits that enforce tax laws as one recent case.)

Third, such a case has never been prosecuted, a doubtful it would ever be.
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Failing to implement the law is not specifically a crime, no, but the legal argument would probably be something along the lines of due to the fact that the President failed to faithfully execute the laws of the United States XYZ criminal acts happened, so therefore the President is liable. But SCOTUS just clarified that a president is immune from prosecution while executing formal acts, so this couldn't be prosecuted.
The proper channel would be for him to be impeached and removed from office by Congress because he violated his Oath of Office.

EDIT: And to clarify, for those who are curious, an "official act" by the President does not mean anything that a President does while in office; rather only things that are directly tied to executing the role of the President outlined in the Constitution. So if Joe Biden killed one of Hunters prostitutes and buried her at Camp David in 2022, he could still be convicted of murder even though he was President at the time. Or if Trump decided to engage in some insider trading on ARAMCO stocks before formal diplomatic ties are announced between Israel and Saudi Arabia in 2025, the SEC could still go after him.
 
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glockman

glockman

I hate Jeep trucks
Location
Pleasant Grove
I have some questions about the whole Ashely Biden diary issue. From what I can gather, she left the diary at a place she was staying. The next person to stay there took the diary, I assume some time after it was abandoned and tried to sell it to Trumps campaign. They declines so she sold it to project Veritas. PV was then raided by the FBI but no charges were ever filed. Now the woman who sold the diary is being sentenced to jail time. I'm no landlord but isn't property considered abandoned at some point if left at your previous residence?
 
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