Political So now what

[Unimog]

I like how the media is now putting out the story line that "cancel culture" has been inflated way beyond what it ever really was. I disagree with this statement entirely. I think that people trying to punish other people who don't think like they do is bigger than ever. I also think the "cancel culture" movement is one of the most detrimental things to us coming together as a society. What made USA great in the past was the recognition that everyone was different and that you could fit into our culture anyway. I believe it is still that way on the micro level, when dealing with a few people, but on the macro level, we are becoming less tolerant. Maybe it is just the media putting out this message...

 

[xjtony]

I just want to let y'all know that you should never speed in Grantsville. They don't do warnings, and I know plenty of people who've been ticketed for 2 mph over, myself included. They aren't racist cops, they are capitalists.

This is no joke. My wife got 2 tickets in the first 2 days we lived in Grantsville lol

 

[TRD270]

I've learned, as has my nephew that in many cases, how you act and treat a cop will greatly influence your likelyhood of getting a ticket.

This very much. I didn’t write a lot of tickets. Often before I even made contact with the driver I had my mind made up whether is was going to write a keeper. I didn’t like the capitalist revenue generation machine. I saved my paper for what I thought were more egregious offenses.

More often than not the driver talked themselves into a ticket with me. Now obviously not all cops share this mentality.

Since it’s this thread and what’s being talked about I’ll share one memory.

Wasatch Blvd and Big Cottonwood canyon, I see a vehicle coming down with blue lights facing the front, this is not legal. As with most of these encounters before I even turn my lights on my mindset is write a written warning to document and educate.

It’s like 1am dark, I have no idea who is driving. I pull the car over, before I can even get out of my car the driver a black male. Is halfway out the driver window yelling “what the **** you want. This is some bull****.” Now I approach and give my typical speech I’m officer blah blah I stopped you for your blue lights. He continues man this is bull**** that **** isn’t illegal get the **** out of here. You pulled me over because I’m black, you a racist mother******

How do you handle that situation? Point being again this is a two way street. Vehicle coming at me I identify 1/2 mile away with an equipment violation. I have no freakin idea the color of their skin before I make the determination to stop them. Then greeted by that behavior?

 

[jeeper]

Prior to my 20’s I was pulled over more than 75 times. A total of 3 or 4 tickets. I’m now up to a little more than 100, with about 6 tickets.
I’m not saying it is anything about race... just that I’m pretty sure I win the pull over record. 😁🤣

 

[Jinx]

I just want to let y'all know that you should never speed in Grantsville. They don't do warnings, and I know plenty of people who've been ticketed for 2 mph over, myself included. They aren't racist cops, they are capitalists.

Funny you mention this, my wife has been pulled over in Grantsville and she is such a rule follower that I am pretty she doesn't even open her eyes during a prayer...

 

[Houndoc]

Understand your statement but please educate me. I'll leave the racism/bias part out for this argument. But please educate me on how any non-caucasian/gay/lesbian/trans/pink haired person in this country has fewer civil rights than you or me.

I don't think I can say anything more clear or better than Cody did.

I think many people are tired of racism being pushed as a one way street. To me, this only creates more intolerance. Once it is accepted that it is possible for races other than what is considered white to be racist, then I think things can get better. However, I don't think you will ever see the modern D party accept that anybody but a white person can be racist.

I would never argue that racism is one way, and I honestly do not think minority groups in general make that claim. What is claimed, and discussed plenty, is that as whites society as a whole is in our favor.

Thanks Cody.

I do see my privilege, and am very grateful for it... but I guess I believe that it was earned by someone (in this case, my parents) through sacrifice and hard work. So it's a privilege to me.. but I am now EARNING that privilege for the next generation.



I know many many many white people who are also living in poverty, in a long chain of poverty living parents. I don't see them as anymore privileged than a black person in poverty.

Some of the other comments in this thread have covered this idea pretty well. The sad fact is that as a nation we have not yet reached the point where everyone is treated equally as far as race and ethnicity are concerned.

A poor, less educated white person does not have the same barriers in that regard as does a person of color.

I personally think that most of those socio-economic problems are directly caused by the breakdown of the family. Kind of making the same point as Brian. At the root, it is caused by peoples individual decisions. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but this is another of those problems that I think the government can mess up more than correct.

A deeper look into this issue requires us to consider how does race and bias contribute to those socio-economic factors? Single parent homes we know contribute to a host of problems and poverty but in black communities how is that affected by laws that result in higher incarceration rates for blacks (thus breaking up families, hindering education and lowering earning potential)? One example is that until modified during the Obama administration, it took 100 times the powder cocaine possession (used mostly middle and upper class whites) to have the same conviction to crack cocaine, used more by poor and minority groups.
Quality of schools and many other factors are interrelated.

I'm racist because Houndoc says so.

I don't single anyone out, point fingers or make personal accusations. Deal with the discussions how you want.

 

[Cody]

don't really like the term privilege because it's thrown around so flippantly and supposed to make me feel bad.

You're not supposed to feel bad unless you're using whatever position you have in life to hold others back. I think people should be proud of whatever their family has worked hard to have... Not feel shame because of it. It was given to you, so you don't need to feel bad. You're only asked to recognize the existence of it, and perhaps understand how it came to be and how it's perpetuated. If you inherited a billion dollars you shouldn't feel bad, unless you then started bragging about how successful you are at life for some things you did nothing to get.

I really wish I had the answers and knew what would make everything better but I don't. I agree with @Unimog though, a lot of changes need to start at the family level.

I agree, but again, socio-economic conditions make it more difficult for family level changes to occur. My dad always said he was too busy working to ever make any money, and ain't that the truth? Some parents simply dig in and work 2 jobs each in order to give their children a better starting position, but do you think a household like that has as much direct parental interaction to also raise them and teach them not to be assholes? Maybe, but likely a lower chance than say a family who's father went to law school on a college fund, and makes enough money to have a parent in the home full time and both parents all but like 40 hours per week? Of course everyone has a chance to rise up, but everything is harder when you're broke.

As for driving... We probably all have a story to tell about when we or someone we knew were or were not pulled over for all sorts of stuff. But I think the larger sample size says minorities are more likely to be targeted, perhaps not just because of their ethnicity but maybe because something in life (see previous paragraph) set them on the wrong path. I for one absolutely believe profiling is a thing. My first car was an 87 s15 Jimmy and my mom drove a nearly identical 87 s10 blazer. In the couple years I drove that gutless turd, I received 21 tickets. 17 front license plate tickets, one "improper lookout" ticket (he said I didn't check my blindspot when I pulled over for the license plate ticket), one headlight ticket (for having them off in a white out blizzard), 1 speeding, and 1 operating a vehicle while child is standing (I was shotgun and was leaning my head out the window to holler at some girls). I wasn't pulled over for being white, but for being a young kid. My mom, also no front plate, never pulled over once. I've never had a front plate since then, and no tickets or hassles in 20 years. So I do believe you can and will get pulled over based on what you look like, and they'll use any excuse to do it.

 

[Hickey]

I'll tell you what privilege is. Having a bald head and a white beard. You can drive the most illegal jalopy through the middle of town and even the Grantsville cops just look at you and don't even see a problem. Hell, they might even be envious. That's the best part of getting old.

That's privilege.

 

[ricsrx]

I’m pretty sure I win the pull over record. 😁🤣

i will confirm that statement.............

 

[Pike2350]

I read a lot of Thomas Sowell in 2020 and there are a few really pertinent quotes that fit this thread:

"If there is not equality of outcomes among people born to the same parents and raised under the same roof, why should equality of outcomes be expected—or assumed—when conditions are not nearly so comparable?"

I dont think people are looking for equality of outcomes.....but equality in how they are treated and equity in opportunities that are granted to individuals. Although based on that quote the Declaration of Independence was wrong as well....all men are created equal and all that.

Seems like that statement is more geared to wealth distribution or other socialistesque "programs" i dont think it fits as well when 2 people arent given equal treatment when in every aspect they could be same minus 1 that really has no bearing on them as a person.

 

[UNSTUCK]

They aren't racist cops, they are capitalists.

Hmmmm, or is it racist if they hate all people.....equally?

 

[Hickey]

Hmmmm, or is it racist if they hate all people.....equally?

But still, capitalists.

 

[Noahfecks]

I have seen the video Cody posted on many occasions, its odd that everyone seems to ignore the privileged white kids still standing on the end line. The fact that there are white kids standing there blows the entire premise of the video out of the water.

Anybody else notice the inherent racism in the teachers comment that these black kids out here would smoke you? Nobody seems to take offense to a comment like that when it makes being of a certain race or creed seem favorable. Is there Black privilege? I mean during slavery plantation owners bred slaves for positive physical attributes, they now dominate the astronomically high wage professional sports industry. Some blacks have an advantage in that regard.

You know what real racism is? Telling certain groups over and over that they cant succeed, that they are beholden to someone else for their opportunity. That you're too stupid to learn in English so we are going to lower the bar for you and teach you in spanish.

 

[Noahfecks]

A poor, less educated white person does not have the same barriers in that regard as does a person of color.

You have clearly never been poor enough, this statement is just plain stupid. Trust me, coming from abject poverty and being white quite possibly presents more barriers. For starters, some asshole is always telling you how much privilege and advantage you enjoy, and the system is rigged to give anyone who is not a white male preference to education and social benefit programs (you know, because I am white and privileged).

I sincerely hope that no one here or their family ever know what it is like to live in truly desperate poverty, but I can promise you a lack of opportunity is rooted in socioeconomics, not race.

 

[Cody]

I know this is fruitless.....

The video illustrates the concept of privilege. Yes, many white families have less privilege. If you had a billion dollars, is there any question your life would be easier than if you had zero regardless of skin color?

Then, understanding the inherent biases in society that creat a system that makes it more difficult for many minorities to rise above the socioeconomic position that they may be in. Obviously poverty impacts white families too, but that's not proof that the system treats people equally.

 

[UNSTUCK]

I guess if we learn anything from that video it is that we as parents must do everything in our power to give our children the greatest chance for success. Do what we can to be/stay married. Dads be there for your kids. We must teach them that they can (and must) be better in all aspects of life than we are. We must teach them that they are responsible for their own actions. That working hard is a fact of life. That there is no place in life for criminal activity.

Seems to me, any child of any color can enjoy white privilege. No doubt there are plenty of black kids that had more white privilege than me.

 

[jackjoh]

As predicted, the Utah 4x4 community will lose to this new administration.

Jack Johnston
The Dingle bill passed and is now PL 166-9. It was a "compromise" where more public land was given to the anti-access people to stop all the litigation over public land. So now SUWA is at it again suing to get more so-called wilderness. They can not be trusted to keep a bargain even when it is in their favor.

 

[jackjoh]

Fascist! Nazi! Racist!

Also had pretty much the same thing posted, but I deleted because I’m over explaining myself and love of the founding principles of this country to people that have a blind hatred for someone as a person and can’t look past that.

In 1944 at age 14 during WWII I never thought it would be an honor to called a Nazi.

 

[jackjoh]

An HR training for Coke employees was leaked. Clown world.

View attachment 135060

Bull pucky, can not change what has been for 90 years.

 

[jackjoh]

I have been thinking about what you wrote @Pike2350 and I believe people want both. At least that's how I see, hear and read it. Obviously, I can't speak for others but before I moved to Utah I taught in an inner city and worked in NYC in a similar capacity with at-risk youth/families. During my time here, I have concentrated on business and people in that respect want the same, too, for their children and themselves.

Last year, I watched a panel of speakers at an online minority equality/race relations summit sponsored by the community college. Not only was there speaking about treatment (racism, inequality, etc.) but there was also plenty of talk about equality of outcomes because they're hand-in-hand. Why wouldn't they be?

Equality of outcomes is what has hurt education since NCLB. The expectation was a great concept but it didn't work as planned. Try as they might, equal treatment, dollars wasn't there. Neither was equal effort or expectations.

Really though, Sowell is a great read/watch/listen. @Houndoc you'd like him, too.

Not sure I agree with your take on this. Look at who takes the greatest pride and gives the greatest effort in education. Oriental 1st, White 2nd, Latinos 3rd, and Blacks 4th. They also do well in school in that order. Yes, they also are well off in that order but there are exceptions to the rule. I think if every child was given a voucher to go to the school of their choice it would help but without effort on the part of the individual the outcome would probably be the same. Read Sowell and Williams.