Political So now what

[Hickey]

Y'all can start labeling me a "Desantette" and I'll just agree and keep quiet. He could run with Satan and Bin Laden as his VP and I'd vote for him and wear his hat.

 

[jeeper]

When it comes to the other stuff, I used to be a live and let live kind of guy. 5 years ago I called myself an ANCAP following the philosophies of Murry Rothbard and the likes (thanks, Ron Paul). But I've since come to the realization that most people can't even be responsible enough with their own lives as to not cause theft (in a broad sense) to others around them. Where does that leave us? The libertarian ideology of "do what thou wilt" (nice Crowley spell) has left us in a world heading toward complete chaos because nobody has the balls to stand up and say "Women don't have dicks."

I am had similar thoughts lately. Jordan Peterson has a saying “slay the dragon in his layer, before he comes to your village”.

I’ve thought that if the dragon is living in his cave, what harm does it do to let it stay?
But how inevitable is it that the dragon will come to my village?

If I was sure that I could be safe, and that my children would be safe, from the dragon… Then let it be. But it seems like the dragon is going to come whether we leave it alone or not. And if that is the case, better to kill it before it attacks.

And my real life example is rattlesnakes. If there is one anywhere near the camp that my kids are playing at, it dies. I am not going to take the risk of it coming into camp one of the days and biting a kid.
So if I am that adamant about real snakes, maybe I should be about metaphorical dragons.

 

[Cody]

My problem is that "central" is now very far left and it's causing a lot of people to appear far right when in fact they are just normal people who are sick of the clown world bullshit.

In the short term I would say the power holders of the right have gotten so extreme that it's relative distance to center makes it feel like center has moved. But perhaps on a longer time line you could make the argument that liberals and their damned snowflake liberal ideologies have gradually chipped away at the foundation of the conservative value system. I mean, we all long to go back to simpler times when you could get fair market value for your slaves, our pesky wives can't medel in politics or household matters, and minorities (in a country who ideologically was built on open immigration) are kept in separate neighborhoods. Ahh easier times.

As for trans sports, it's a complicated subject, but nobody is transitioning specifically to get an advantage in sports anymore than people are cutting their legs off to get outfitted with race blades. I don't know any Trans athletes, so I don't feel right having a strong opinion one way or another.

Fwiw, if I had to choose between a Trans woman or a priest/bishop to watch my kids for a week while I was away, I'd choose the woman 100 times out of 100.

 

[Pike2350]

I am had similar thoughts lately. Jordan Peterson has a saying “slay the dragon in his layer, before he comes to your village”.

I’ve thought that if the dragon is living in his cave, what harm does it do to let it stay?
But how inevitable is it that the dragon will come to my village?

If I was sure that I could be safe, and that my children would be safe, from the dragon… Then let it be. But it seems like the dragon is going to come whether we leave it alone or not. And if that is the case, better to kill it before it attacks.

And my real life example is rattlesnakes. If there is one anywhere near the camp that my kids are playing at, it dies. I am not going to take the risk of it coming into camp one of the days and biting a kid.
So if I am that adamant about real snakes, maybe I should be about metaphorical dragons.

I completely understand this logic....however I feel people are labeling things as "dragons" when they really have no clue what(if any) threat there is to their village. What if the "dragon" is really an iguana? No harm to you or your family in any real way. But you are being told it is a dragon and it will come to harm you....Will you kill it in it's lair?

In today's world people want to protect their village, rightfully so. However, they are being told that things pose a threat to them when in reality they don't know what it really is, or if the threat is even remotely likely. They are generally scared of the unknown. Most issues on the social spectrum have very little, if any threat to people...but they are told, by those in power they do.

Now I agree that some things(issues) are dragons, or could grow up to be dragons....but they are few and far between....and not nearly as common as the media and those in power(on either side) make them out to be.

 

[Trate D]

As for trans sports, it's a complicated subject, but nobody is transitioning specifically to get an advantage in sports anymore than people are cutting their legs off to get outfitted with race blades. I don't know any Trans athletes, so I don't feel right having a strong opinion one way or another.

Then what’s the problem with them competing against the sex they were born?

 

[Cody]

Then what’s the problem with them competing against the sex they were born?

I don't have a problem with that. I also don't have a problem with them competing against whatever gender they have transitioned to. Mostly because this literally has zero bearing on my life. I don't know anyone specifically who has been impacted by this with whom I could talk to in order to understand it better. It sounds as if you have, so I respect your position, but all I have to go on is the overwhelming public support from the members of the women's Penn State swim team, and the 300+ ncaa and International women's swimmers that have publicly voiced their support for Lia Thomas. Patricio Manuel only seems to have problems because other men feel emasculated if they get beat by a trans boxer, and women won't fight him (optics?). Do you think he should be still competing against other women, after years of testosterone therapy? Do you just relegate the trans community to their own sports league like a side show because their very existence makes you feel icky for some reason?

It certainly seems like the majority of Americans are against this, but I don't see a lot of athletes that are that concerned about it. Shouldn't they be the ones we're asking?

 

[Hickey]

I don't give shits for sports, either. As I understand the reason for separate events for male/female competitors is the actual physical strength differences between male and female. There are outliers, for sure, but if you've grown to adult size with normal male amounts of testosterone flowing through your body you will inherently have a strength advantage over someone who doesn't have that testosterone flowing for 12-20 years.

At the end of the day, I would side with the actual competitors making the choice.

Most of the coverage on any Trans issue feels forced upon us. I have zero data to back that up, but I personally get pretty skeptical of anything like Trans issues and Mitt Romney that are forced on me.

 

[Cody]

I don't give two shits about the sports. But I'm pretty good with pattern recognition, and the patterns I see emerging with "trans" people is major red flag mental health issues and also a patterned tendency to be, or be associated with, pedophiles. So, have fun with that.

I think the mental issues come from being forced to suppress yourself because society looks down upon you. Why is it so wrong to let someone be who they want to be if it doesn't harm you?

Besides, I mean you can watch patterns and color them with your own preconceived notions, or you can look at statistics. The stats say you're substantially LESS Likely to be sexually molested by a trans person than say, a priest, your boy scout leader, or creepy uncle Jim. I think it's like 100x's less likely. I think it's like 70x less likely to be sexually assaulted by a homosexual. Even objectively, there are likely more documented cases of pedophilia in church than there are trans people on Earth. I read a big study on this, I'll dig it up.

So yes, not being molested is something I would have fun with. So I'll steer clear of the organizations that force suppression based on community enforced values, beliefs, and insecurities. That's a recipe for major mental health issues.

 

[Trate D]

I have a very athletic daughter who is at the top of her game for her age and gender. I have my concerns that if a trans was to compete for her spot and overtake her her opportunity is lost cause of this. Is it a stretch to say that will happen to her most likely. Has it happened to other female athletes yes!

My opinion is any person regardless of gender should’nt be allowed to compete if they are on any sort of enhancements. This would never fly for an athlete of the same gender to use while competing. If your body don’t produce it naturally then you shouldn’t be allowed to compete with it.

My nephew who is 9 plays on a baseball team that has a trans (still very girl appearance.) on the team. At the first of the season they were sat down and said they have to refer to her as a girl and call her what she wants or your off the team. My nephew was very confused on how she was a boy and looked like a girl. My brother has had multiple talks with him and he still doesn’t get it yet he has to follow suit or find a new team. So now we have a whole team of boys questioning things they shouldn’t have to deal with at 9yrs old.

And no I don’t have an answer to how to make this situation better..... But now 10 kids on the team have to deal with being confused over a 9 year old being allowed to chose his/her gender.

 

[Trate D]

My attempt at “Lighten the mood”.

 

[Cody]

I have a very athletic daughter who is at the top of her game for her age and gender. I have my concerns that if a trans was to compete for her spot and overtake her her opportunity is lost cause of this. Is it a stretch to say that will happen to her most likely. Has it happened to other female athletes yes!

My opinion is any person regardless of gender should’nt be allowed to compete if they are on any sort of enhancements. This would never fly for an athlete of the same gender to use while competing. If your body don’t produce it naturally then you shouldn’t be allowed to compete with it.

My nephew who is 9 plays on a baseball team that has a trans (still very girl appearance.) on the team. At the first of the season they were sat down and said they have to refer to her as a girl and call her what she wants or your off the team. My nephew was very confused on how she was a boy and looked like a girl. My brother has had multiple talks with him and he still doesn’t get it yet he has to follow suit or find a new team. So now we have a whole team of boys questioning things they shouldn’t have to deal with at 9yrs old.

And no I don’t have an answer to how to make this situation better..... But now 10 kids on the team have to deal with being confused over a 9 year old being allowed to chose his/her gender.

Why would you have a sit down to call a girl transitioning to a boy, a girl? That kind of seems like an asshole thing to do lol.

I get your arguments. I really do. What if, your very athletic daughter decides in a couple years that she truly identifies as a male, and wants to transition and still compete in sports, but as a male? Do you support her? Do you put her in some torturous conversion therapy? Obviously it's a stretch because it just isn't that common, but I just try to put myself in their shoes. If my little butterball 4 year old wanted to be a girl all of a sudden, and wanted to go swim on a girls swim team, of course I'd fight to let that little rolly-polly feel as happy, accepted, and included as possible.

I think your point about competing on "enhancements" will likely become the crux of the issue. If someone wants to transition, and to compete in sports, they have to adhere to the same protocols as everyone else including testosterone supplements and other hormone treatments that are not allowed in most sports.

Also, not to cloud the issue, but since baseball isn't a sport, that doesn't qualify.

 

[Pike2350]

I have a very athletic daughter who is at the top of her game for her age and gender. I have my concerns that if a trans was to compete for her spot and overtake her her opportunity is lost cause of this. Is it a stretch to say that will happen to her most likely. Has it happened to other female athletes yes!

My opinion is any person regardless of gender should’nt be allowed to compete if they are on any sort of enhancements. This would never fly for an athlete of the same gender to use while competing. If your body don’t produce it naturally then you shouldn’t be allowed to compete with it.

My nephew who is 9 plays on a baseball team that has a trans (still very girl appearance.) on the team. At the first of the season they were sat down and said they have to refer to her as a girl and call her what she wants or your off the team. My nephew was very confused on how she was a boy and looked like a girl. My brother has had multiple talks with him and he still doesn’t get it yet he has to follow suit or find a new team. So now we have a whole team of boys questioning things they shouldn’t have to deal with at 9yrs old.

And no I don’t have an answer to how to make this situation better..... But now 10 kids on the team have to deal with being confused over a 9 year old being allowed to chose his/her gender.

My issue with this is simply that at 9yrs old kids do not have the mental ability to make that choice. They may feel that way, and I whole heartily believe that there are a few kids that "know" that young.....however I feel the parents are in the wrong by forcing such a life altering decision in not only their child but people your child interacts with.

If they want to support their child, they let them do it at home and explain that due to their age and society, they need to act a certain way in public until they are older and are sure they want to go through with it.

 

[Trate D]

Why would you have a sit down to call a girl transitioning to a boy, a girl? That kind of seems like an asshole thing to do lol.

I get your arguments. I really do. What if, your very athletic daughter decides in a couple years that she truly identifies as a male, and wants to transition and still compete in sports, but as a male? Do you support her? Do you put her in some torturous conversion therapy? Obviously it's a stretch because it just isn't that common, but I just try to put myself in their shoes. If my little butterball 4 year old wanted to be a girl all of a sudden, and wanted to go swim on a girls swim team, of course I'd fight to let that little rolly-polly feel as happy, accepted, and included as possible.

I think your point about competing on "enhancements" will likely become the crux of the issue. If someone wants to transition, and to compete in sports, they have to adhere to the same protocols as everyone else including testosterone supplements and other hormone treatments that are not allowed in most sports.

Also, not to cloud the issue, but since baseball isn't a sport, that doesn't qualify.

Would I support her yes. Do I think without enhancements she would be competitive, my opinion no. I may be blind to them but I only see highlights of the trans dominating women’s sports not the other way around. It seems to me that’s were the advantages take place.

Men and women athletes are just built different plain and simple.

I wish there was a solution that’s fair to everyone I just don’t know what or when that might happen.

 

[ID Bronco]

So let me ask...what movement "left" has happened?

@Herzog mentioned you have to have morals....but who's morals and what constitute morals?

I'm now talking more generic and belief systems....not so much political parties.

I will be very open about mine. I think the whole trans gender thing is ridiculous. How you someone was born physiologically at birth should determine the sports league they play in. It has nothing to do with the mental state of a person (while I do believe it is a mental "issue" I don't care if they want to transition, after making the choice for themselves and they are of legal age...I don't believe it needs to be "fixed") As for other "Morals that the country needs" what are they? Abortion, equal rights, vices, etc are the really the moral things I can think of. I think from a federal stand point on abortion, They need to determine when life begins. Once that's determined, it should be a states issue. Because, in reality, that is the basis for the argument. If it's life, it's protected under the constitution....but until it's a life, it really has no rights, and it does become a personal choice. So, once THAT is determined, then, let the states do it with what they will...but there needs to be a base decision made. Equal rights (gay marriage, trans right, etc) Again, if there is a federal applicable right that is granted to one person for something, then it needs to be protected for ALL people. Marriage for example....there are federal rights given to married couples. Those rights need to be passed on to any 2 people that legally enter a "marriage" in the eyes of the .gov. Because the federal government has set this up, it needs to be protected on a national level. How could a state decide a marriage is not allowed, and then federal benefits would not be granted? This is where the basis of my argument would come from. If there was no spousal protection, then the gay marriage debate would be void IMHO. Vices....again, people should be able to make their own decisions. drinking, gambling, drugs, prostitution, etc. should all be legal (upon legal age) People should be allowed to put in their body what they wish.....and it is really no one's business. The rules for doing/causing things that put others at risk is different.

So, how have we moved left according to your views?

Expanding a little. I am all for smaller .gov I believe the .gov has grown WAY beyond what it was meant to be and should be. There is WAY too much regulation, too much spending, too many rules that do NOTHING but to control people. Taxes should be lower (so should subsidies, entitlements, military spending etc.) I think we should have a balanced budget amendment. So i feel I am FAR more "right" when it comes to fiscal policy then almost ANY Republican politician currently serving (outside of Ron Paul....not Rand)

I haven't forgotten you, but I need a bit of time to explain my thoughts on this one. Forthcoming...

 

[Cody]

My issue with this is simply that at 9yrs old kids do not have the mental ability to make that choice. They may feel that way, and I whole heartily believe that there are a few kids that "know" that young.....however I feel the parents are in the wrong by forcing such a life altering decision in not only their child but people your child interacts with.

If they want to support their child, they let them do it at home and explain that due to their age and society, they need to act a certain way in public until they are older and are sure they want to go through with it.

I agree with this. I don't think you start getting gender reassignment surgery for a 9 year old, but telling your kid to be someone else in public is tough to explain to them.

Would I support her yes. Do I think without enhancements she would be competitive, my opinion no. I may be blind to them but I only see highlights of the trans dominating women’s sports not the other way around. It seems to me that’s were the advantages take place.

Men and women athletes are just built different plain and simple.

I wish there was a solution that’s fair to everyone I just don’t know what or when that might happen.

I agree there are obvious physical differences. I don't see highlights of trans women dominating women's sports though. Maybe I'm just not paying attention.

 

[shortstraw8]

- CeCe Telfer failed to finish inside the top 300 in the men’s Division 2017, became an NCAA women’s track and field national champion in 2019
- Mary Gregory biological male broke 9 biological female powerlifting records
- Rachel McKinnon would not have qualified for the men’s cycling competition, set the world record for the Women’s Sprint World Championship
Must be the estrogen....??
My opinion is that at the high school/collegiate level there should be absolute separation since some of these participants dedicate their time and work hard for scholarships and the chance to attend a dream school. Only to be easily taken away by someone that is biologically stronger, doesn't seem right to me. Everyone complaining about equity of outcome, but let these "oppressed" groups do whatever the hell they want cause they have had it rough being born in the "wrong body".

 

[Cody]

I hadn't heard of them. Interesting to read about their stories. Again, without knowing anyone in that camp, it's really difficult for me to have an opinion about it. My gut reaction is they shouldn't be allowed to use any of the hormone therapies that are likely illegal in that sport, but it's messy no matter how you approach it. People are obviously passionate about it on both sides.

 

[Spork]

 

[YouKnowWho]

If ya win it's a revolution.
If ya lose it's an insurrection.
You don't gamble in a casino if ya can't afford to lose.

 

[glockman]

I think the mental issues come from being forced to suppress yourself because society looks down upon you. Why is it so wrong to let someone be who they want to be if it doesn't harm you?

Besides, I mean you can watch patterns and color them with your own preconceived notions, or you can look at statistics. The stats say you're substantially LESS Likely to be sexually molested by a trans person than say, a priest, your boy scout leader, or creepy uncle Jim. I think it's like 100x's less likely. I think it's like 70x less likely to be sexually assaulted by a homosexual. Even objectively, there are likely more documented cases of pedophilia in church than there are trans people on Earth. I read a big study on this, I'll dig it up.

So yes, not being molested is something I would have fun with. So I'll steer clear of the organizations that force suppression based on community enforced values, beliefs, and insecurities. That's a recipe for major mental health issues.

I'd wager it's safe to say all Priests molesting kids are homosexuals. How does that affect your risk assessment?

The scope of the Trans discussion is ridiculous. We never have this much public debate about any other cohort that is 1% or less of the population. It's basically turned into a stick to beat the opposing side with.

Not sure if everyone is aware that Lia Thomas still has a penis, has sex with women with her penis and swam in a college meet as a woman, with said penis fully in tact and functioning. That is just nonsense. It has nothing to do with empathizing with someone who has gender dysphoria. It is forcing people to ignore reality. It's gas lighting on an epic level. I hope she lives a long and happy life and I will call her by that pronoun if that is what she prefers, but she shouldn't compete against women without penis' without their consent.